0 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Kunjungi www.Nexiabet.com Agen Judi Online Aman dan Terpercaya 1 00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:08,049 [man] This is Bill's new album. 2 00:00:08,133 --> 00:00:09,509 Is it your first album you've done? 3 00:00:09,592 --> 00:00:12,637 Yeah, that was my first singing, period, anywhere. 4 00:00:12,721 --> 00:00:13,722 I didn't sing before. 5 00:00:13,805 --> 00:00:16,349 I-- I was into another thing altogether. 6 00:00:16,433 --> 00:00:17,809 [David Frost] What did you do before you sang? 7 00:00:17,892 --> 00:00:20,353 Well, I had been in the Navy for nine years, 8 00:00:20,437 --> 00:00:23,023 and then I got out and I worked in aircraft. 9 00:00:23,106 --> 00:00:26,067 I made toilets for 747 aircraft. 10 00:00:26,151 --> 00:00:27,485 [audience laughing] 11 00:00:29,612 --> 00:00:31,698 One of the reasons I'm here is that... 12 00:00:32,824 --> 00:00:34,409 I met Clarence Avant. 13 00:00:35,326 --> 00:00:37,537 I have a lot of respect for Clarence. 14 00:00:38,121 --> 00:00:40,790 What he's done is a very unusual story. 15 00:00:41,332 --> 00:00:43,168 That's why we're sitting here talking. 16 00:00:43,251 --> 00:00:44,836 He puts people together. 17 00:00:45,628 --> 00:00:47,130 And they do what they do. 18 00:00:47,922 --> 00:00:50,258 How do you put together a life... 19 00:00:52,052 --> 00:00:53,178 from knowing people? 20 00:00:55,138 --> 00:00:57,098 I've never seen him with a tool. 21 00:00:59,976 --> 00:01:01,102 His tools... 22 00:01:01,853 --> 00:01:02,937 are his... 23 00:01:05,815 --> 00:01:08,068 you know, ability to... 24 00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:10,111 manipulate people. 25 00:01:10,195 --> 00:01:12,697 I don't mean that in a bad way, necessarily. 26 00:01:14,115 --> 00:01:15,742 And if he needs to do it in a bad way, 27 00:01:15,825 --> 00:01:17,494 he's probably good at that, too, you know? 28 00:01:18,286 --> 00:01:20,288 ["Use Me" by Bill Withers playing] 29 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:24,834 Meet Clarence Avant. 30 00:01:24,918 --> 00:01:27,087 Clarence's name kept coming up. 31 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:29,047 Who is this guy that I keep hearing about? 32 00:01:30,048 --> 00:01:32,967 ♪ My friends... ♪ 33 00:01:33,718 --> 00:01:35,762 His name would come up, Clarence Avant. 34 00:01:35,845 --> 00:01:38,515 Say Clarence Avant's name, and the doors open, 35 00:01:38,598 --> 00:01:39,974 and the seas part. 36 00:01:40,058 --> 00:01:41,976 Oh, man. He was too fly. You understand me? 37 00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:44,938 He talked the talk, walked the walk, dressed the part. Played it, you know? 38 00:01:45,021 --> 00:01:48,358 ♪ Oh, you just keep on using me ♪ 39 00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:53,113 ♪ Until you use me up...  ♪ 40 00:01:55,657 --> 00:01:57,200 Clarence knew everyone. 41 00:01:57,283 --> 00:01:59,160 -Everybody. -Everybody. 42 00:01:59,244 --> 00:02:01,204 He's a celebrity's celebrity. 43 00:02:04,207 --> 00:02:06,042 ♪ My brother... ♪ 44 00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:09,629 [man] Writers, with singers, 45 00:02:09,712 --> 00:02:12,549 with record companies, with business deals... 46 00:02:12,632 --> 00:02:14,092 He was just all over the place. 47 00:02:14,175 --> 00:02:15,552 He was in the mix. 48 00:02:15,635 --> 00:02:17,846 He finds a common ground 49 00:02:17,929 --> 00:02:19,806 between people who are different. 50 00:02:19,889 --> 00:02:21,641 This mysterious figure...  51 00:02:22,016 --> 00:02:24,102 that everybody respected. 52 00:02:27,021 --> 00:02:30,150 [Foxx] Like, a person from the street to the White House, he was known. 53 00:02:30,441 --> 00:02:32,360 [President Obama] One of the things he understands 54 00:02:32,443 --> 00:02:34,487 is there are different kinds of power. 55 00:02:35,029 --> 00:02:37,031 There's the power that needs the spotlight, 56 00:02:37,115 --> 00:02:40,368 but there's also the power that comes from being behind the scenes. 57 00:02:40,451 --> 00:02:42,162 He wasn't there, but he was right there. 58 00:02:43,329 --> 00:02:47,876 ♪ If you only knew You'd wish that you were in my shoes ♪ 59 00:02:47,959 --> 00:02:50,587 ♪ You just keep on using me... ♪ 60 00:02:51,754 --> 00:02:53,590 Clarence Avant is a complete original. 61 00:02:53,673 --> 00:02:55,091 A badass and a legend. 62 00:02:55,175 --> 00:02:57,302 He's a very incisive thinker. 63 00:02:57,385 --> 00:03:00,180 A historian and a maker of history. 64 00:03:00,263 --> 00:03:01,514 That's who Clarence is. 65 00:03:01,598 --> 00:03:03,016 Clarence Avant, 66 00:03:03,099 --> 00:03:06,060 from a two-room schoolhouse in North Carolina 67 00:03:06,394 --> 00:03:10,481 to the boardrooms of Motown, and MGM, and everyplace. 68 00:03:10,815 --> 00:03:13,985 James Brown told me, "White folks just, you know, respect him. 69 00:03:14,068 --> 00:03:15,820 They scared of that nigga. Scared of him." 70 00:03:17,697 --> 00:03:22,744 ♪ Oh, you get in a crowd Of high class people... ♪ 71 00:03:22,827 --> 00:03:25,371 [President Clinton] His advice, per word, 72 00:03:25,455 --> 00:03:28,708 is probably worth more than just about anybody I ever dealt with. 73 00:03:28,791 --> 00:03:31,586 You knew if you were making a deal with Clarence, there was something there. 74 00:03:31,669 --> 00:03:34,964 You always got the truth from Clarence. You got it straight. You got it quick. 75 00:03:35,048 --> 00:03:37,842 I don't know anybody else like Clarence. 76 00:03:37,926 --> 00:03:40,303 Clarence is the final word. [laughs] 77 00:03:40,386 --> 00:03:42,680 He became that mentor for us all. 78 00:03:42,764 --> 00:03:44,474 He became that godfather. 79 00:03:44,724 --> 00:03:46,100 [man] The godfather. 80 00:03:46,184 --> 00:03:49,479 Clarence is the godfather. 81 00:03:49,562 --> 00:03:52,649 ♪ Oh, you just keep on using me ♪ 82 00:03:55,109 --> 00:03:57,111 ♪ Until you use me up ♪ 83 00:03:58,238 --> 00:03:59,447 [applause] 84 00:04:04,118 --> 00:04:05,995 I can't make speeches. 85 00:04:06,287 --> 00:04:08,539 That's not my-- That's not my life. 86 00:04:09,123 --> 00:04:10,291 I make deals. 87 00:04:20,009 --> 00:04:21,511 [Avant] This is interesting. 88 00:04:22,136 --> 00:04:25,765 Absolutely no fucker's giving me a check... 89 00:04:26,266 --> 00:04:28,685 for doing this. I might say anything now. 90 00:04:28,768 --> 00:04:29,936 [interviewer] That's the goal. 91 00:04:30,019 --> 00:04:32,939 Well, no. Then I'm gonna-- I'mma say I don't know anything. 92 00:04:33,022 --> 00:04:34,899 [interviewer laughs] 93 00:04:35,692 --> 00:04:39,404 Mm-hm. Fortunately, there's other people who will tell us stories as well. 94 00:04:39,988 --> 00:04:42,031 You don't know anybody who can tell my story. 95 00:04:44,492 --> 00:04:46,327 Yeah, well, I don't know about that. 96 00:04:47,036 --> 00:04:48,997 Clarence is one of my favorite guys. 97 00:04:49,497 --> 00:04:51,624 I think Clarence exemplifies... 98 00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:53,835 a certain... 99 00:04:55,461 --> 00:04:56,379 ...cool, 100 00:04:56,462 --> 00:04:59,257 a certain level of street smarts and savvy... 101 00:04:59,757 --> 00:05:04,887 that allowed him to move into worlds that... 102 00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:06,556 nobody had prepared him for 103 00:05:07,015 --> 00:05:08,850 and say, "I can figure this out." 104 00:05:08,933 --> 00:05:12,437 Do you remember the first time someone ever said you're the godfather? 105 00:05:12,979 --> 00:05:14,856 People call me that. People can call me anything. 106 00:05:14,939 --> 00:05:17,608 People have called me a son of a bitch, so what? That's part of life. 107 00:05:19,193 --> 00:05:20,903 [swing music plays] 108 00:05:22,739 --> 00:05:24,741 I was managing a club in Newark, New Jersey. 109 00:05:24,824 --> 00:05:26,075 Teddy Powell's Lounge. 110 00:05:26,159 --> 00:05:28,202 Teddy was a concert promoter. 111 00:05:28,286 --> 00:05:31,748 He had Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson, people like that. 112 00:05:32,165 --> 00:05:34,292 [woman] Teddy Powell was a legend. 113 00:05:34,375 --> 00:05:36,836 So these legends-- He was like a sponge. 114 00:05:36,919 --> 00:05:39,797 He absorbed the best of everybody he saw. 115 00:05:40,465 --> 00:05:42,133 [Avant] I was in my 20s, I guess. 116 00:05:43,051 --> 00:05:45,636 So, Joseph G. Glaser came in one day, 117 00:05:46,137 --> 00:05:48,848 and he owned a company called Associated Booking. 118 00:05:49,474 --> 00:05:51,392 He represented Dinah Washington. 119 00:05:52,935 --> 00:05:55,063 And Dinah was rough. 120 00:05:56,272 --> 00:05:59,359 So Mr. Glaser heard me argue with her, 121 00:05:59,442 --> 00:06:01,194 and he was laughing, so... 122 00:06:01,819 --> 00:06:03,237 And he wanted me to be an agent. 123 00:06:03,321 --> 00:06:06,449 He said, "You're a great salesman." What did I want to be an agent for? 124 00:06:07,241 --> 00:06:09,035 You know, Clarence was a guy who... 125 00:06:10,912 --> 00:06:13,081 wasn't looking for the job he ended up with. 126 00:06:13,164 --> 00:06:15,375 I said how the fuck was I gonna be a goddamn agent, 127 00:06:15,458 --> 00:06:17,502 and writing reports up and all that shit, and-- 128 00:06:17,585 --> 00:06:19,170 You know, that's not my life. 129 00:06:19,754 --> 00:06:20,797 Not at all. 130 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,343 But he, um, he's the guy that really made Louis Armstrong. 131 00:06:26,803 --> 00:06:31,349 [man] Joe Glaser was Louis Armstrong's agent, manager, and... 132 00:06:31,432 --> 00:06:34,477 You know, they were together for virtually all of Louis' life. 133 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,856 [Avant] He managed Dave Brubeck, Duke Ellington, Sarah Vaughan, 134 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:40,358 and Billie Holiday. 135 00:06:41,109 --> 00:06:42,402 He had a lot of acts. 136 00:06:43,027 --> 00:06:47,698 And he talked Clarence into getting into show business as a manager. 137 00:06:48,950 --> 00:06:50,868 Joe Glaser was tough... 138 00:06:51,327 --> 00:06:52,453 He was a tough guy. 139 00:06:53,788 --> 00:06:55,289 Joe was connected. 140 00:06:55,373 --> 00:06:57,166 They were all Al Capone's folks. 141 00:06:57,875 --> 00:06:59,252 [man] Prohibition creates 142 00:06:59,335 --> 00:07:01,963 the modern entertainment business in America. 143 00:07:02,046 --> 00:07:03,631 The underworld creates 144 00:07:03,714 --> 00:07:07,468 a network of restaurants, speakeasies, places where you can get drinks, 145 00:07:07,552 --> 00:07:09,178 and they provide entertainment. 146 00:07:09,262 --> 00:07:11,013 So, when Prohibition was repealed, 147 00:07:11,097 --> 00:07:13,683 the structure created by Prohibition remained. 148 00:07:13,933 --> 00:07:16,561 Now we have all this talent, and they need management. 149 00:07:16,686 --> 00:07:20,648 And so, the gangsters who were involved with the speakeasy world 150 00:07:20,815 --> 00:07:24,068 are still there, and now there's a legitimate business to be run. 151 00:07:25,987 --> 00:07:28,531 [mutters] I was too young to know about Al Capone. 152 00:07:28,614 --> 00:07:30,241 The fuck did I care about Al Capone, man? 153 00:07:30,324 --> 00:07:32,743 I mean, shit. I wasn't worried about nothing like that. 154 00:07:32,827 --> 00:07:35,204 No, I don't ask Mr. Glaser questions. 155 00:07:35,955 --> 00:07:37,248 I just learned from him. 156 00:07:37,707 --> 00:07:39,250 I think we had, at one time, 157 00:07:39,333 --> 00:07:43,463 about 70% of all the black talent in America to book. 158 00:07:43,546 --> 00:07:45,965 They owned everything: the booking agencies, 159 00:07:46,048 --> 00:07:49,886 the publishing companies, record companies, and the clubs. 160 00:07:50,386 --> 00:07:51,596 Business people... 161 00:07:52,555 --> 00:07:54,557 Not mafia. It's business. 162 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:55,683 Oh, please. 163 00:07:56,434 --> 00:07:57,393 Please, Clarence. 164 00:07:57,894 --> 00:07:59,979 Somebody was holding a guy by his heels 165 00:08:00,062 --> 00:08:01,731 -out of the window, -[Avant] Remember that. 166 00:08:01,814 --> 00:08:05,359 and his overcoat fell all over his head. And I said, "What's going on up there?" 167 00:08:05,443 --> 00:08:08,279 They said, "Jackie Wilson's trying to renegotiate his contract." 168 00:08:08,362 --> 00:08:10,615 -True story. Nat Tarnopol. -[Jones] It's true. 169 00:08:11,115 --> 00:08:12,825 Those were some heavy days, man. 170 00:08:13,868 --> 00:08:14,702 True. 171 00:08:16,579 --> 00:08:19,081 [Cohen] Yeah, I used to walk Joe Glaser home at night. 172 00:08:19,540 --> 00:08:22,460 We would talk about people who came in the office, 173 00:08:22,543 --> 00:08:25,087 how bright they were or how dumb they were. 174 00:08:25,171 --> 00:08:26,547 Did they belong with us? 175 00:08:26,714 --> 00:08:29,759 Um, did-- did we want to be around them? 176 00:08:30,635 --> 00:08:33,763 And Clarence was one of the favorite guys. 177 00:08:35,431 --> 00:08:38,768 [Geffen] Clarence was an honorable, decent, hardworking guy 178 00:08:38,851 --> 00:08:40,478 who tried to do the right thing. 179 00:08:40,561 --> 00:08:45,441 And, you know, in the agency business, with managers and people like that, 180 00:08:45,525 --> 00:08:47,235 it's hard to find a person quite like that. 181 00:08:48,152 --> 00:08:50,446 I think that Joe recognized this about Clarence 182 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:54,075 and thought, "This is a guy who should be looking out for artists." 183 00:08:55,243 --> 00:08:58,329 I think that possibly, culturally, the guy was smart enough to think, 184 00:08:58,412 --> 00:09:00,540 "You know, if I'm gonna have all of these great artists, 185 00:09:00,623 --> 00:09:02,625 Louis Armstrong and Sarah Vaughan, 186 00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:04,669 wouldn't it be great to have an African American, 187 00:09:04,752 --> 00:09:07,797 or a black, or a Negro-- or whatever we were at that time-- 188 00:09:08,047 --> 00:09:11,259 uh, be, you know, a conduit for them?" 189 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,597 [Cohen] Clarence became the manager of Little Willie John, 190 00:09:16,681 --> 00:09:18,766 and later on, Jimmy Smith. 191 00:09:19,684 --> 00:09:22,770 [President Clinton] The thing I was always most impressed about Clarence with-- 192 00:09:22,853 --> 00:09:26,148 was that he once represented Jimmy Smith. 193 00:09:27,567 --> 00:09:31,279 The greatest jazz organist who ever lived by a country mile. 194 00:09:35,825 --> 00:09:39,161 Jimmy Smith was a genius with the organ. 195 00:09:40,955 --> 00:09:42,873 He was a creative guy, 196 00:09:43,374 --> 00:09:44,417 but a character. 197 00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:46,586 Very eccentric. 198 00:09:50,965 --> 00:09:52,592 [Avant] Quincy and I became friends 199 00:09:52,675 --> 00:09:55,720 because after Jimmy made that "Walk on the Wild Side," 200 00:09:55,803 --> 00:09:57,179 everybody wanted Jimmy. 201 00:09:57,763 --> 00:10:01,100 [Jones] The first time we met, I had just convinced Philips Records 202 00:10:01,183 --> 00:10:02,852 to start a record label called EmArcy. 203 00:10:03,352 --> 00:10:06,647 We gave $100,000 to Dizzy Gillespie, 204 00:10:06,731 --> 00:10:07,773 to Art Blakey, 205 00:10:07,857 --> 00:10:09,692 to Gerry Mulligan, to Cannonball, 206 00:10:09,775 --> 00:10:10,818 to Clark Terry, et cetera. 207 00:10:10,901 --> 00:10:15,489 And so Clarence came in, and he wanted $450,000 for Jimmy Smith. 208 00:10:15,573 --> 00:10:17,950 And I said, "Wait a minute, man. You gotta be crazy, man. 209 00:10:18,034 --> 00:10:19,452 You're smoking something!" 210 00:10:20,244 --> 00:10:22,788 And he went out and got half of that. 211 00:10:22,872 --> 00:10:23,998 He didn't get 450, 212 00:10:24,081 --> 00:10:26,292 but he got half of that from Creed Taylor. 213 00:10:26,542 --> 00:10:27,501 We were on then. 214 00:10:27,585 --> 00:10:28,919 [jazz song plays] 215 00:10:29,003 --> 00:10:30,880 [interviewer] What was your first impression of Clarence? 216 00:10:30,963 --> 00:10:32,006 [chuckles] 217 00:10:32,089 --> 00:10:33,215 Can't put that on camera. 218 00:10:34,050 --> 00:10:35,217 [Jones] No. 219 00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:38,220 No, it was love at first sight. It was. 220 00:10:38,387 --> 00:10:39,472 And respect. 221 00:10:40,139 --> 00:10:43,684 It's a tremendous respect, 'cause he has no BS in him. 222 00:10:44,769 --> 00:10:45,895 Not a drop. 223 00:10:46,646 --> 00:10:49,649 [Foxx] It's having that person that you can... 224 00:10:49,774 --> 00:10:50,775 really count on. 225 00:10:50,858 --> 00:10:52,985 I mean, they really count on each other, you know. 226 00:10:53,069 --> 00:10:54,904 If you talk to Quincy about, you know, Clarence, 227 00:10:54,987 --> 00:10:57,573 [as Jones] "Man, shit, man, Clarence is a son of a bitch, baby. 228 00:10:57,948 --> 00:10:59,325 He's a true gangster, man." 229 00:10:59,408 --> 00:11:01,577 Now he used to-- Quincy'd go off on a tangent. 230 00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:04,789 "Yeah, man. Shit. Him, Sinatra, baby, that was shit." 231 00:11:05,665 --> 00:11:07,875 You could never get him in the corner. Mm-mmm. 232 00:11:09,502 --> 00:11:10,836 That's part of the game, man. 233 00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:13,631 If you don't ask, you don't get. 234 00:11:15,216 --> 00:11:18,094 Life is about one thing: numbers. Nothing else. 235 00:11:18,177 --> 00:11:19,637 What did Tina Turner say? 236 00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:23,265 "What's love got to do with it?" Not a fucking thing, man. 237 00:11:23,349 --> 00:11:27,228 That's why I tell people, life begins with a number and it ends with a number. 238 00:11:27,728 --> 00:11:29,647 Love ain't got nothing to do with shit. 239 00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:32,358 It's all about numbers. Nothing else. 240 00:11:33,442 --> 00:11:35,444 [swing music plays] 241 00:11:42,702 --> 00:11:44,787 I had a manager, 242 00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:49,250 and he had his offices in Carnegie Hall. 243 00:11:50,042 --> 00:11:53,003 Every now and then, I would just walk to the window 244 00:11:53,587 --> 00:11:57,425 and stand there and just watch life go by. 245 00:11:59,427 --> 00:12:00,886 And one morning, 246 00:12:01,470 --> 00:12:06,142 I looked across the street, and there was this man... 247 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:12,148 Now mind you, this man was dressed to the nines. 248 00:12:12,231 --> 00:12:13,441 Do you hear me? 249 00:12:14,024 --> 00:12:17,695 And so, he would come, and he would stand in the entryway, 250 00:12:18,154 --> 00:12:19,780 and he would look north, 251 00:12:20,406 --> 00:12:22,491 and he would look south, 252 00:12:23,242 --> 00:12:25,161 and then he straightened out his shoulders, 253 00:12:25,953 --> 00:12:27,121 he took his bag, 254 00:12:27,204 --> 00:12:31,041 and he stepped out of that building, and down Seventh Avenue he went. 255 00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:33,210 And he was this color! 256 00:12:33,294 --> 00:12:34,295 Do you hear me? 257 00:12:34,378 --> 00:12:37,673 Oh, my God. I'd never seen anything quite like it. 258 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:42,386 [George] Every description of Clarence, he was one of those guys. 259 00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:44,180 He was a man about town, 260 00:12:44,263 --> 00:12:47,224 he was all in the clubs, he knew all the cool people. 261 00:12:48,642 --> 00:12:50,311 I took him to the Copacabana... 262 00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:52,855 With Lena. 263 00:12:53,898 --> 00:12:56,984 And we went backstage to try to get Diana Ross. 264 00:12:57,777 --> 00:12:59,862 And they said, "Miss Ross is resting." 265 00:13:00,613 --> 00:13:03,908 I said, "Resting my butt, man. Lena Horne's out there. Get out here." 266 00:13:04,575 --> 00:13:07,787 Clarence had a little bit too much lemonade that night. 267 00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:09,288 [laughing] 268 00:13:09,371 --> 00:13:12,291 He had to get a cab to carry me into my apartment, 269 00:13:12,374 --> 00:13:14,251 15 West 72nd Street. 270 00:13:14,668 --> 00:13:16,378 I was drunk for two days, man. 271 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,256 I ain't been drunk since. 272 00:13:19,423 --> 00:13:21,050 -[Jones] Oh, please. -No, I haven't! 273 00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:22,885 -[Jones] Oh, please. -That's why I put ice in my wine. 274 00:13:26,305 --> 00:13:27,973 [woman] When I was dating Clarence, 275 00:13:28,474 --> 00:13:29,600 there were so many, 276 00:13:29,683 --> 00:13:32,728 you know, interesting places, restaurants, and people. 277 00:13:32,978 --> 00:13:35,189 And we would visit, like, Harry Belafonte. 278 00:13:35,272 --> 00:13:37,191 It was, I mean, it was one thing after another. 279 00:13:37,274 --> 00:13:41,111 ♪ I love you, I love you Baby, I love you... ♪ 280 00:13:41,195 --> 00:13:43,781 [George] At one time, Jackie modeled for Ebony Fashion Fair. 281 00:13:44,949 --> 00:13:49,286 Ebony Fashion Fair was a tour that would bring high fashion 282 00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:50,412 to black neighborhoods. 283 00:13:50,496 --> 00:13:52,706 The Ebony Fashion Fair models were, like, the first models 284 00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:54,667 that black people really saw on the runway. 285 00:13:54,750 --> 00:13:58,587 So, for a black guy in 1960-something, a Fashion Fair model was, like, 286 00:13:59,171 --> 00:14:00,256 a big deal. 287 00:14:01,048 --> 00:14:03,884 [Avant] When Jackie met me, I got into Birdland free. 288 00:14:03,968 --> 00:14:08,389 I got into the best restaurants, you know, because you knew certain people, 289 00:14:08,472 --> 00:14:10,140 you know, like Mr. Glaser. 290 00:14:10,224 --> 00:14:11,225 You know, hey! 291 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:15,312 [Jacqueline] He'd always have a car pick me up. 292 00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:18,190 And I thought, "Who is this guy?" 293 00:14:18,274 --> 00:14:21,902 And then one day, I guess he was really trying to get... 294 00:14:23,153 --> 00:14:23,988 win me over. 295 00:14:24,071 --> 00:14:26,699 And for some reason, he mentioned... 296 00:14:27,324 --> 00:14:29,535 how much he had paid the Internal Revenue Service. 297 00:14:29,618 --> 00:14:32,204 "Okay, so if you paid them that much, that must mean that--"  298 00:14:32,288 --> 00:14:34,248 Guess he was trying to tell me how much he made. 299 00:14:34,874 --> 00:14:37,126 Hey, I told you. Life begins with a number, and it ends with a number. 300 00:14:37,209 --> 00:14:39,336 -[Jacqueline] Thought it was important. -Life's about numbers. 301 00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:40,671 [snapping in time] 302 00:14:40,754 --> 00:14:42,464 [stand-up bass strums] 303 00:14:42,548 --> 00:14:45,175 [Avant] I had been on a tour with Jimmy Smith 304 00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:47,469 and Dizzy Gillespie. 305 00:14:51,056 --> 00:14:53,559 That's where Lalo was playing the piano. 306 00:14:57,938 --> 00:15:01,233 [Schifrin] Pianist, composer, and arranger of Dizzy Gillespie. 307 00:15:01,817 --> 00:15:04,236 We were touring around the world. 308 00:15:08,574 --> 00:15:10,534 And so, when I get back, 309 00:15:11,118 --> 00:15:14,288 Mr. Glaser come into his office. "I'm sending you to California." 310 00:15:14,538 --> 00:15:15,372 I said, "For what?" 311 00:15:15,998 --> 00:15:20,252 "This piano player with Dizzy wants to be in the movies." 312 00:15:20,836 --> 00:15:23,797 Because when you got into TV and television, 313 00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:26,008 there was big money. 314 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,554 And Mr. Glaser thought Lalo had what it takes. 315 00:15:32,222 --> 00:15:34,433 [Avant] And what am I gonna do with a white composer? 316 00:15:34,808 --> 00:15:37,019 He said, "The same god damn thing. You heard, Negro. 317 00:15:37,144 --> 00:15:38,938 Get the fuck outta here and go to work." 318 00:15:39,897 --> 00:15:42,524 I really didn't know nothing about movies, man, 319 00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:43,984 and television, shit. 320 00:15:44,568 --> 00:15:46,779 Mr. Glaser said, "Don't worry about that." 321 00:15:47,529 --> 00:15:50,407 And I met every head of every studio. 322 00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:52,910 He knew everybody, 323 00:15:52,993 --> 00:15:58,248 but he knew the head of music publishing of MGM. 324 00:15:58,332 --> 00:16:01,377 And he-- Right away, he got me a movie. Right there. 325 00:16:02,878 --> 00:16:05,005 [Cohen] Clarence ran the ship for Lalo. 326 00:16:05,923 --> 00:16:10,177 I'm sure that a lot of white people were very surprised 327 00:16:10,260 --> 00:16:12,304 when Mr. Schifrin showed up with his manager. 328 00:16:12,388 --> 00:16:15,516 They probably thought he was his valet or his driver. 329 00:16:15,599 --> 00:16:17,309 [funk music plays] 330 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,689 [Avant] You know, Lalo did over 100 films. 331 00:16:21,772 --> 00:16:24,108 Over 100 fucking films. 332 00:16:26,902 --> 00:16:29,738 [Lalo] Bruce Lee, he liked my music so much, 333 00:16:29,822 --> 00:16:32,533 he offered to teach me martial arts. 334 00:16:33,117 --> 00:16:35,285 He made me build a dojo in my house. 335 00:16:35,953 --> 00:16:37,496 I became a black belt. 336 00:16:37,579 --> 00:16:38,414 [exclaims] 337 00:16:39,498 --> 00:16:42,459 Lalo's probably the main guy 338 00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:45,879 who set him up in the publishing world, 339 00:16:45,963 --> 00:16:49,925 where he learned that a copyright is a gold mine. 340 00:16:50,009 --> 00:16:52,011 [plays Mission: Impossible theme] 341 00:16:55,556 --> 00:16:57,141 [Mission: Impossible theme song plays] 342 00:17:05,024 --> 00:17:06,358 [Avant] I had told Quincy, 343 00:17:07,735 --> 00:17:10,320 "I'll never get married, never live in California." 344 00:17:11,739 --> 00:17:13,115 Well, Jackie got pregnant. 345 00:17:14,408 --> 00:17:18,120 So I took her out to see my mother in Summit, New Jersey, 346 00:17:18,203 --> 00:17:19,955 where I'd bought my mother a house. 347 00:17:20,456 --> 00:17:22,416 I remember him calling her while we were dating, 348 00:17:22,499 --> 00:17:24,376 and he would always refer to her as Gert. 349 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:28,547 And his mother gave a beautiful tea for me at her home. 350 00:17:29,131 --> 00:17:30,507 My mother took me in the kitchen, 351 00:17:30,591 --> 00:17:33,093 and she was talking to me. She said, "Boy, what's wrong with you?" 352 00:17:33,677 --> 00:17:35,179 I said, "I ain't ready to get married." 353 00:17:35,262 --> 00:17:37,056 She said, "You used to ask me about your daddy, 354 00:17:37,139 --> 00:17:39,391 and now you talkin' about you ain't gonna marry that girl?" 355 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:42,144 We got married. 356 00:17:44,354 --> 00:17:45,355 And then... 357 00:17:46,648 --> 00:17:47,900 moved to California. 358 00:17:53,155 --> 00:17:54,448 [man] When he came to LA, 359 00:17:54,531 --> 00:17:58,786 it was like, he was starting his life all over again with Jackie. 360 00:17:58,869 --> 00:18:00,329 He was changing his life. 361 00:18:00,412 --> 00:18:03,248 -["California Soul" playing] -♪ California soul... ♪ 362 00:18:04,041 --> 00:18:07,294 [Avant] I was just looking for a house 'cause Mr. Glaser told me to find a house. 363 00:18:07,377 --> 00:18:09,088 Baldwin Hills was the shit. 364 00:18:09,213 --> 00:18:12,091 Ray Charles and Nancy Wilson lived there. 365 00:18:12,174 --> 00:18:13,717 Everybody lived in Baldwin Hills. 366 00:18:14,218 --> 00:18:16,804 So one day, Mr. Glaser came out. 367 00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:19,264 "Looking for a house?" "Yes, sir." 368 00:18:19,348 --> 00:18:20,933 "Where?" "Baldwin Hills." 369 00:18:21,016 --> 00:18:23,727 "Where the fuck's Baldwin Hills?" I said, "That's where Negroes live." 370 00:18:24,394 --> 00:18:27,898 Back then, there were no Negroes living in Beverly Hills. 371 00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:30,359 But he said, "You find a house in Beverly." 372 00:18:30,442 --> 00:18:33,070 I said, "Sorry, I can't afford it." "I didn't ask you that." 373 00:18:33,737 --> 00:18:34,780 Found a house. 374 00:18:34,863 --> 00:18:37,324 ♪ California soul... ♪ 375 00:18:38,158 --> 00:18:40,744 Glaser is the one who bought the house. 376 00:18:40,828 --> 00:18:44,373 Of course, I borrowed the money from him. Didn't have no fuckin' money. 377 00:18:44,957 --> 00:18:47,376 I had a few dollars, but not like that. 378 00:18:47,459 --> 00:18:49,920 He was dealing with all the studio heads 379 00:18:50,003 --> 00:18:51,463 in the old days. 380 00:18:51,547 --> 00:18:52,881 [laughing] 381 00:18:52,965 --> 00:18:54,341 And got away with it. 382 00:18:54,508 --> 00:18:57,386 He's just fearless, man. Absolutely fearless. 383 00:18:57,469 --> 00:18:59,221 I remember all those guys were talking about, 384 00:18:59,304 --> 00:19:00,639 "The man's holding me back." 385 00:19:00,722 --> 00:19:03,809 He was in there talking to Lew Wasserman, the mofo. 386 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:07,729 And meeting with him and getting things done. 387 00:19:09,439 --> 00:19:11,984 [man] Lew created the agenting system, 388 00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:14,236 you know. And ran the studio. 389 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:17,030 And Clarence understood the power in connectivity 390 00:19:17,114 --> 00:19:18,907 and the power in relationships. 391 00:19:19,908 --> 00:19:21,410 [Avant] Lew Wasserman was a good friend. 392 00:19:23,036 --> 00:19:25,455 I used to meet with him, just the two of us, have lunch. 393 00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:27,624 Whatever time he had a fund-raiser or something, 394 00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:29,418 he'd call. "Clarence, I need you." 395 00:19:30,419 --> 00:19:33,964 [man] Most of the fund-raisers were held at Lew Wasserman's house. 396 00:19:34,173 --> 00:19:36,842 And I would always see Clarence 397 00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:38,218 at those events. 398 00:19:38,302 --> 00:19:41,722 [interviewer] Was he the only black person at these events? 399 00:19:42,097 --> 00:19:45,434 I'm... saddened to tell you 400 00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:47,227 that that may be the case. 401 00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:51,315 [woman] Clarence has that something where he can connect with... 402 00:19:52,274 --> 00:19:53,150 everyone. 403 00:19:53,650 --> 00:19:54,484 And he has. 404 00:19:55,068 --> 00:19:56,862 He came a long way 405 00:19:57,696 --> 00:19:58,906 in a short time. 406 00:20:00,449 --> 00:20:02,868 [Avant] Lalo worked a lot for David Wolper. 407 00:20:02,951 --> 00:20:05,621 David Wolper did documentaries. 408 00:20:06,496 --> 00:20:10,334 So... I get a call from Mr. Glaser one day. 409 00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,127 "You gotta go meet Art Modell." 410 00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:13,670 "Who the fuck is Art Modell?" 411 00:20:13,754 --> 00:20:16,256 "He owns the Cleveland Browns." "What do I want to meet him for?" 412 00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:19,092 "Well, your friend David Wolper wants to do a documentary. 413 00:20:19,176 --> 00:20:21,303 And there's a guy who plays for the Cleveland Browns 414 00:20:21,386 --> 00:20:24,348 named Jim Brown. Doesn't want to be in the documentary. 415 00:20:24,932 --> 00:20:26,350 You gotta convince him." 416 00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:29,686 [George] Jim Brown was a football player. He's a running back, 417 00:20:29,937 --> 00:20:32,272 who is as big as anybody on the line. 418 00:20:32,356 --> 00:20:34,107 And if you watch film of Jim Brown, 419 00:20:34,191 --> 00:20:36,777 he's just brutalizing people. 420 00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:40,280 [announcer] Number 32, Jimmy Brown, makes tissue paper of the Giant line. 421 00:20:40,364 --> 00:20:42,032 There's no stopping the great man. 422 00:20:42,115 --> 00:20:45,702 He sets the Cleveland team on fire, and it's a five-alarm blaze! 423 00:20:48,413 --> 00:20:51,583 You have this guy called Clarence Avant... 424 00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:55,128 that everybody's talking about, 425 00:20:55,963 --> 00:20:57,923 but nobody seems to understand 426 00:20:58,006 --> 00:21:00,926 just exactly what his official title was. 427 00:21:01,009 --> 00:21:03,553 I couldn't tell you now exactly what he-- 428 00:21:03,637 --> 00:21:05,555 Was he an agent, a manager, a lawyer? 429 00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:08,558 ...what he was. [chuckles] 430 00:21:08,642 --> 00:21:11,812 And so, we're talking. "You wanna be in the movies?" 431 00:21:12,562 --> 00:21:13,647 He just looked at me. 432 00:21:14,856 --> 00:21:16,858 "Yeah. You own a record label?" 433 00:21:17,901 --> 00:21:20,904 I guess he said, "Who the eff is this schmuck?" 434 00:21:21,321 --> 00:21:25,993 He had a definitive... personality. 435 00:21:26,076 --> 00:21:28,120 You know, he was Clarence, 436 00:21:28,954 --> 00:21:31,665 and he wasn't gonna be no different than that. 437 00:21:32,124 --> 00:21:34,084 And he had his way of operating. 438 00:21:35,544 --> 00:21:36,670 And I liked that. 439 00:21:37,671 --> 00:21:40,340 [Avant] We put him into movies, which he did. 440 00:21:40,465 --> 00:21:42,926 One of the big films was The Dirty Dozen. 441 00:21:43,010 --> 00:21:45,345 [presenter] Jimmy Brown as Napoleon Jefferson. 442 00:21:45,595 --> 00:21:48,890 "Jefferson is any man fighting for recognition against the odds," 443 00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:52,019 says Brown. "I think I understand him pretty well." 444 00:21:52,853 --> 00:21:54,021 [George] He was a presence. 445 00:21:54,104 --> 00:21:56,773 There was something so credible about him. He filled the screen. 446 00:22:00,527 --> 00:22:02,529 [Avant] Clarence was a guy that you really had to see 447 00:22:02,612 --> 00:22:04,781 to put certain kinds of deals together. 448 00:22:04,865 --> 00:22:07,367 Woman, what're they looking at? 449 00:22:08,827 --> 00:22:10,996 It's the first time they've seen a black man before. 450 00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:14,416 [Brown] I became the first black actor 451 00:22:14,499 --> 00:22:16,501 that had a love scene 452 00:22:16,585 --> 00:22:19,671 with a white actress, which was Raquel Welch. 453 00:22:20,380 --> 00:22:22,591 [George] He does this movie with Raquel Welch, 100 Rifles, 454 00:22:22,674 --> 00:22:26,094 and there's a picture of Raquel Welch with her arms around his big, black chest. 455 00:22:26,178 --> 00:22:27,846 People are like, "Whoa!" 456 00:22:27,929 --> 00:22:29,431 I got threats. 457 00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:34,311 America was not indulging with interracial love scenes 458 00:22:34,394 --> 00:22:36,605 on their... silver screen. 459 00:22:38,648 --> 00:22:41,610 [George] These values that America said it believed in... 460 00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:44,654 were not being manifested for us. 461 00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:47,866 Jim Crow was everywhere, racism was everywhere. 462 00:22:48,992 --> 00:22:50,494 It's a very heavy time. 463 00:22:51,495 --> 00:22:53,205 It's a time of great conflict. 464 00:22:53,872 --> 00:22:55,082 [Avant] I never marched. 465 00:22:56,541 --> 00:22:58,168 If I got hit, I'd hit back. 466 00:22:58,668 --> 00:22:59,711 I'd be dead now. 467 00:23:02,255 --> 00:23:05,759 [Brown] There were so many question marks at that particular time, racially, 468 00:23:06,134 --> 00:23:09,012 and Hollywood had its own power base, 469 00:23:09,763 --> 00:23:11,431 and here was... 470 00:23:12,432 --> 00:23:15,018 an African-American man in Hollywood 471 00:23:15,394 --> 00:23:18,271 that was defying what Hollywood was supposed to be. 472 00:23:19,523 --> 00:23:23,402 I don't let nothing get in my way about anything that I wanna do. 473 00:23:23,485 --> 00:23:24,653 That's the way I think. 474 00:23:25,570 --> 00:23:28,115 People say, "Where'd you go to college?" College? 475 00:23:28,865 --> 00:23:31,118 Shit. Ninth grade is as far as I got. 476 00:23:31,993 --> 00:23:34,413 I learned a lot from a guy called Joe Glaser. 477 00:23:35,038 --> 00:23:35,872 A lot. 478 00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,001 When Mr. Glaser died, 479 00:23:40,460 --> 00:23:42,838 I told Jackie, "We have to move." 'Cause I owed them money. 480 00:23:42,921 --> 00:23:46,299 One month goes by, three months go by, the fourth month... 481 00:23:47,676 --> 00:23:48,969 Mr. Korshak called. 482 00:23:50,262 --> 00:23:51,638 "Clarence." "Yes, sir." 483 00:23:51,721 --> 00:23:53,390 "Your loan is forgiven." Hung up. 484 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:56,768 I don't have problems. 485 00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:58,812 I have friends. 486 00:24:03,984 --> 00:24:06,236 It's almost like he took a situation... 487 00:24:06,903 --> 00:24:10,407 and saw there was a lot of power in this situation... 488 00:24:10,657 --> 00:24:11,950 and decided, 489 00:24:12,576 --> 00:24:14,202 "Okay, I landed here, 490 00:24:14,744 --> 00:24:17,831 and I'm gonna take everything here that's here 491 00:24:17,914 --> 00:24:20,125 on this little island that I just landed on, 492 00:24:20,292 --> 00:24:22,586 and I'm going to use it for good, 493 00:24:22,669 --> 00:24:24,296 and I'm gonna use it to lift up my people, 494 00:24:24,379 --> 00:24:26,131 and I'm going to use it to push down barriers, 495 00:24:26,214 --> 00:24:29,718 and I'm gonna use it to open doors, and I'm gonna use it for the right thing. 496 00:24:29,801 --> 00:24:31,428 I'm gonna use it for justice." 497 00:24:32,012 --> 00:24:35,265 He got involved in wanting to be an entrepreneur in his own right. 498 00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:40,896 [Avant] So in 1970, I launched Sussex Records. 499 00:24:40,979 --> 00:24:42,522 [funk music plays] 500 00:24:42,606 --> 00:24:45,775 [man] Clarence is very proud of the name. I don't know if he's mentioned it to you. 501 00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:48,320 The two things people want more. 502 00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:49,905 Think about it. 503 00:24:51,573 --> 00:24:54,242 Success and sex, what else is new? 504 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,789 "Success," that means suc-- sex-- sex? 505 00:24:59,873 --> 00:25:01,333 [laughs] 506 00:25:02,542 --> 00:25:03,376 Shit! 507 00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:05,212 [laughing] 508 00:25:05,795 --> 00:25:07,380 Success and sex. 509 00:25:07,464 --> 00:25:09,508 Sound like something him and Quincy was talking about high. 510 00:25:09,591 --> 00:25:11,593 [laughing] 511 00:25:12,010 --> 00:25:13,553 [chuckling] 512 00:25:13,887 --> 00:25:15,388 He goes his own way. 513 00:25:15,472 --> 00:25:17,516 He doesn't feel the need... 514 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:21,686 to fold himself into a pretzel to be popular. 515 00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:23,980 He just, you know... 516 00:25:24,397 --> 00:25:26,733 m-- moved to his own drum beat. 517 00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:30,237 [George] Over the course of between, like, '68 and '71 or '72, 518 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,365 Motown basically moved from Detroit to LA. 519 00:25:34,241 --> 00:25:37,702 And so, Clarence opening Sussex in LA in the early '70s... 520 00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:39,538 He's in the moment 521 00:25:39,621 --> 00:25:43,375 where LA is becoming the new center of black commercial music. 522 00:25:44,709 --> 00:25:48,922 [Somer] I was involved with him on his formation of Sussex music. 523 00:25:49,005 --> 00:25:52,926 At that time, I can't think of very many black entrepreneurs 524 00:25:53,093 --> 00:25:55,595 in the rock and roll business, 525 00:25:55,679 --> 00:25:58,390 let alone on the true business side 526 00:25:58,473 --> 00:25:59,683 of the music scene. 527 00:25:59,766 --> 00:26:01,851 And Clarence was one of those kinda guys. 528 00:26:02,143 --> 00:26:04,396 [Avant] I didn't want anybody to tell me who I had to sign, 529 00:26:04,479 --> 00:26:07,399 so I-- the first artist I signed was Dennis Coffey. 530 00:26:07,649 --> 00:26:09,859 -[interviewer] The first 45 I ever bought. -Really? 531 00:26:09,943 --> 00:26:12,487 I gave you money from the first time I had some money. 532 00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:14,656 -[chuckles] -I spent my allowance on that. 533 00:26:14,739 --> 00:26:15,949 -You did? -Yes. 534 00:26:16,032 --> 00:26:17,158 Bullshit. 535 00:26:17,242 --> 00:26:19,119 [laughs] 536 00:26:19,202 --> 00:26:23,707 Dennis Coffey, the Detroit Guitar Band, and "Scorpio." 537 00:26:24,916 --> 00:26:26,918 [funk continues to play] 538 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,547 [George] And I had no idea... 539 00:26:32,215 --> 00:26:33,717 that Dennis Coffey was white. 540 00:26:39,306 --> 00:26:41,349 It just was a funky, funky, funky record. 541 00:26:43,226 --> 00:26:45,437 [Nicole] "Scorpio" went to number one on the black charts, 542 00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:48,732 and then the black DJs found out 543 00:26:48,815 --> 00:26:50,650 that Dennis Coffey was white... 544 00:26:52,235 --> 00:26:54,070 and were very upset, and they called my father 545 00:26:54,154 --> 00:26:56,281 and said, "You didn't tell us he was white. 546 00:26:56,364 --> 00:26:57,574 We didn't know he was white." 547 00:26:57,657 --> 00:27:00,076 My dad said, "Who gives a shit what he is? It's music." 548 00:27:00,952 --> 00:27:04,664 [George] It speaks to the fact that Sussex wasn't a stereotypical label. 549 00:27:05,749 --> 00:27:08,376 [Avant] Everybody wanted to be Berry Gordy. 550 00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:10,420 But I changed that around. 551 00:27:11,046 --> 00:27:12,464 So what I did, 552 00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:15,592 instead of going with black acts, 553 00:27:16,217 --> 00:27:17,677 I had white acts. 554 00:27:18,345 --> 00:27:19,262 Wednesday, 555 00:27:19,721 --> 00:27:21,723 Wadsworth Mansion, 556 00:27:21,806 --> 00:27:23,600 the Gallery. The Gallery had a record 557 00:27:23,683 --> 00:27:26,394 called "It's So Nice to Be with You." Number one. 558 00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:29,856 ♪ Ah, it's so nice to be with you ♪ 559 00:27:29,939 --> 00:27:33,568 ♪ I love all the things you say and do ♪ 560 00:27:33,652 --> 00:27:35,654 [man] There was nobody else doing anything like that 561 00:27:35,737 --> 00:27:36,780 in those days. 562 00:27:36,863 --> 00:27:40,575 A black-owned label that had all these different things. 563 00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:42,160 That's the unorthodox Clarence, 564 00:27:42,243 --> 00:27:44,788 not gonna follow a script, not gonna do what he's supposed to do, 565 00:27:44,871 --> 00:27:46,164 not gonna do what's expected. 566 00:27:48,291 --> 00:27:52,754 [Avant] I met Rodriguez by way of Dennis Coffey, and... 567 00:27:54,172 --> 00:27:56,716 I liked his music. Liked his sound. 568 00:27:58,593 --> 00:28:00,595 [Mitchell] He saw the world was a bigger place. 569 00:28:01,221 --> 00:28:03,890 He's saying that there are so many voices that ought to be heard, 570 00:28:03,973 --> 00:28:06,267 I want everybody to hear what I hear in these voices. 571 00:28:06,351 --> 00:28:09,396 ["Crucify Your Mind" playing] 572 00:28:09,521 --> 00:28:11,564 [Avant] He was one of my favorite artists. 573 00:28:11,648 --> 00:28:12,941 But you couldn't give it away. 574 00:28:13,024 --> 00:28:16,027 It took 40-some years. 575 00:28:17,153 --> 00:28:19,239 And it started in South Africa. 576 00:28:19,823 --> 00:28:23,660 So, long after Sixto cut his records in Detroit for Clarence, 577 00:28:23,743 --> 00:28:26,121 and everyone thought it was over and done with, 578 00:28:26,204 --> 00:28:29,290 he developed this cult following in South Africa. 579 00:28:30,333 --> 00:28:31,960 [Nicole] South Africa is under apartheid. 580 00:28:32,043 --> 00:28:33,920 They ban the album. 581 00:28:34,003 --> 00:28:35,004 The government literally-- 582 00:28:35,088 --> 00:28:38,007 It was against the law to sell any of his albums. 583 00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:42,846 ♪ Something you call unique... ♪ 584 00:28:42,971 --> 00:28:44,806 [Traylor] The white-run South African government 585 00:28:44,889 --> 00:28:46,433 was brutally oppressive. 586 00:28:47,142 --> 00:28:50,395 And Rodriguez's music was inspiring people to oppose 587 00:28:50,478 --> 00:28:51,688 the policy of apartheid. 588 00:28:51,938 --> 00:28:53,940 ♪ As the tears rolled down your cheek... ♪ 589 00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:56,651 There was just so much bootlegging going on with that. 590 00:28:56,735 --> 00:28:58,987 But for the movie, 591 00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:00,780 nobody would've known about it. 592 00:29:01,698 --> 00:29:04,367 [Nicole] I watched my dad smile through that movie like, 593 00:29:04,451 --> 00:29:07,412 "Oh, finally, everybody gets to see what I saw. 594 00:29:07,495 --> 00:29:09,664 I wasn't crazy to take a chance on this guy. 595 00:29:09,748 --> 00:29:11,958 I wasn't crazy to put all my money in for this guy. 596 00:29:12,041 --> 00:29:15,128 I wasn't crazy to mortgage my house. I wasn't crazy. Like, I was right!" 597 00:29:17,464 --> 00:29:19,841 Rodriguez was, to me, he was a brilliant writer. 598 00:29:20,049 --> 00:29:21,426 So was Bill Withers. 599 00:29:23,845 --> 00:29:25,138 ♪ Mm-hmm ♪ 600 00:29:27,182 --> 00:29:28,683 ♪ Mm-hmm ♪ 601 00:29:30,602 --> 00:29:31,811 ♪ Mm-hmm ♪ 602 00:29:35,106 --> 00:29:41,196 ♪ Grandma's hand clapped in church On Sunday morning ♪ 603 00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:47,952 ♪ Grandma's hands Played a tambourine so well ♪ 604 00:29:48,661 --> 00:29:50,079 [Avant] Bill came to see me. 605 00:29:51,706 --> 00:29:54,959 He said, "I've been to all the labels. I guess you'll be the last one." 606 00:29:55,043 --> 00:29:56,878 I said, "Well, you have to wait and see." 607 00:29:56,961 --> 00:30:00,673 I remember getting a taste of Clarence's personality when... 608 00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:05,386 ...I went up there, then they had cassettes, 609 00:30:06,262 --> 00:30:08,640 and I played "Grandma's Hands" for him. 610 00:30:08,723 --> 00:30:11,059 And he got up and ran around the desk, and I thought, 611 00:30:11,142 --> 00:30:13,770 "What kinda guy is gonna run..." You know. 612 00:30:13,853 --> 00:30:15,271 [Avant] You didn't hear many records 613 00:30:15,355 --> 00:30:17,857 of people talking about grandmothers, but everybody has one. 614 00:30:18,191 --> 00:30:21,319 It just resonated with me, and I said, "Wow, this guy has got it!" 615 00:30:21,402 --> 00:30:23,905 He said, "Do you have enough songs to make an album?" 616 00:30:23,988 --> 00:30:24,989 And I said, "Yes." 617 00:30:26,282 --> 00:30:27,158 That was it. 618 00:30:27,659 --> 00:30:29,369 Oh, Jesus Christ. Bill. 619 00:30:29,953 --> 00:30:32,831 [as Bill Withers] ♪ Ain't no sunshine when she's gone ♪ 620 00:30:32,914 --> 00:30:34,666 I mean, come on, man. 621 00:30:35,166 --> 00:30:36,626 ["Ain't No Sunshine" plays] 622 00:30:36,709 --> 00:30:39,754 ♪ Ain't no sunshine when she's gone ♪ 623 00:30:39,838 --> 00:30:42,882 ♪ And she's always gone too long ♪ 624 00:30:42,966 --> 00:30:46,386 ♪ Anytime she goes away... ♪ 625 00:30:46,511 --> 00:30:48,513 [strumming guitar] 626 00:30:48,721 --> 00:30:50,890 -Bill was not a-- -He wasn't obvious. 627 00:30:50,974 --> 00:30:53,142 He wasn't an obvious star whatsoever. 628 00:30:53,434 --> 00:30:56,104 And Bill will tell you that himself. "I don't know what he saw." 629 00:30:57,856 --> 00:31:00,525 [George] Bill Withers is interesting because he expands what... 630 00:31:01,067 --> 00:31:02,318 commercial black music is, 631 00:31:02,402 --> 00:31:05,405 in that Bill looks like a folk artist. 632 00:31:05,488 --> 00:31:08,032 ♪ I know, I know, I know, I know... ♪ 633 00:31:08,157 --> 00:31:12,203 [George] He's sitting there with a, you know, acoustic guitar on a chair, 634 00:31:12,287 --> 00:31:17,292 but around the frame of him was a really great, funky R&B thing. 635 00:31:17,375 --> 00:31:21,379 ♪ I know, I know, hey I oughtta leave the young thing alone ♪ 636 00:31:21,462 --> 00:31:25,508 ♪ But ain't no sunshine when she's gone... ♪ 637 00:31:25,592 --> 00:31:29,554 Clarence is like that. He's, you know-- He's a little to the left, you know, 638 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:32,473 uh, in terms of how he sees and does things. 639 00:31:32,557 --> 00:31:34,517 And that's what makes him unique. 640 00:31:34,767 --> 00:31:37,562 Clarence made some great choices musically. 641 00:31:37,645 --> 00:31:40,356 "Lean on Me" was not my choice for a single. 642 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,442 [playing "Lean On Me"] 643 00:31:44,819 --> 00:31:45,945 [Withers] I wasn't some kid. 644 00:31:46,029 --> 00:31:48,114 I mean, I was 30-something years old, 645 00:31:48,197 --> 00:31:52,118 and, you know, I had a whole life behind me. 646 00:31:53,661 --> 00:31:57,040 And so, I will always be indebted to Clarence 647 00:31:57,123 --> 00:32:00,877 because he provided the big leap for me. 648 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,714 From being a professional aircraft mechanic 649 00:32:05,256 --> 00:32:06,841 over into this world. 650 00:32:09,052 --> 00:32:14,140 ♪ Sometimes in our lives ♪ 651 00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:16,684 ♪ We all have things... ♪ 652 00:32:16,768 --> 00:32:19,520 The person that's responsible for your transition, 653 00:32:20,229 --> 00:32:22,440 that's the key to you changing your life. 654 00:32:22,523 --> 00:32:24,067 ♪ Lean on me ♪ 655 00:32:25,818 --> 00:32:28,738 ♪ When you're not strong... ♪ 656 00:32:28,821 --> 00:32:31,741 Those songs are just so huge. 657 00:32:31,824 --> 00:32:34,577 I mean, even today. It's... You can't really... 658 00:32:35,745 --> 00:32:39,040 spend a lot of time listening to music without hearing some Bill Withers. 659 00:32:39,123 --> 00:32:40,708 -They've stood the test of time. -Yeah. 660 00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:42,794 We will never forget "Lean on Me." 661 00:32:44,128 --> 00:32:47,090 That's as famous as "The Star-Spangled Banner." 662 00:32:48,341 --> 00:32:50,551 We still work every day at what we do, right? 663 00:32:50,635 --> 00:32:52,095 Still trying to do that. 664 00:32:52,178 --> 00:32:53,221 [chuckling] 665 00:32:53,304 --> 00:32:56,516 After all these years. Still trying to find that one classic 666 00:32:56,599 --> 00:33:00,311 that will stand the test of time. Clarence did it... a few times. 667 00:33:01,521 --> 00:33:03,898 [Withers] Well, I'm from Slab Fork, West Virginia. 668 00:33:05,024 --> 00:33:09,070 What's the odds of two guys from Slab Fork, West Virginia, 669 00:33:09,445 --> 00:33:11,739 and Climax, North Carolina, 670 00:33:13,032 --> 00:33:16,744 making a fuss... in Hollywood? 671 00:33:20,081 --> 00:33:21,541 Yeah, I had some hit records. 672 00:33:21,624 --> 00:33:23,710 You know. Hey. 673 00:33:25,253 --> 00:33:28,006 I think that's the real tribute 674 00:33:28,089 --> 00:33:30,383 to Clarence's ear, is that he had a feeling 675 00:33:30,466 --> 00:33:32,969 for whatever wasn't being done at the time. 676 00:33:33,052 --> 00:33:35,179 Must've been kind of a lonely place for him. 677 00:33:36,347 --> 00:33:39,058 For all that kind of brusqueness and loudness, 678 00:33:39,559 --> 00:33:41,185 it's never a one-way street with him. 679 00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:42,437 He's not just talking 680 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,857 to be heard, but he's talking to provoke. 681 00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:48,568 I wanted to do a tribute to Smokey Robinson, 682 00:33:48,860 --> 00:33:50,737 and I was talking to Don Cornelius, 683 00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:53,781 but Don said, "You need to talk to Clarence Avant." 684 00:33:54,032 --> 00:33:56,117 He gave me a number, I called Clarence, 685 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,785 and he answered the phone. 686 00:33:58,536 --> 00:33:59,620 "Hello, who's this?" 687 00:34:00,121 --> 00:34:01,706 I said, "This is Danny Bakewell." 688 00:34:01,998 --> 00:34:04,083 I said-- He said, "Well, who is that?" 689 00:34:04,375 --> 00:34:05,334 And he says-- So I said, 690 00:34:05,418 --> 00:34:07,795 "Well, I'm the head of the Brotherhood Crusade." 691 00:34:07,879 --> 00:34:09,464 And, you know, he said, "Well, 692 00:34:09,797 --> 00:34:12,133 what do y'all sing? What's the name-- What's your group?" 693 00:34:12,216 --> 00:34:13,176 "We don't have a group. 694 00:34:13,259 --> 00:34:15,261 This is a civil rights organization, we wanna talk." 695 00:34:15,344 --> 00:34:17,472 He said, "I don't talk to no civil rights organization. 696 00:34:17,555 --> 00:34:20,308 I'm sick of these niggas." You know? Then he hung up the phone. 697 00:34:20,391 --> 00:34:23,227 So I was like, "Now, wha-- Who is this?" 698 00:34:23,644 --> 00:34:26,189 So... I called back. 699 00:34:27,065 --> 00:34:31,110 And he said, "Man, I told you, I don't want to do no civil rights. 700 00:34:31,194 --> 00:34:32,862 Okay? I'm trying to make some money." 701 00:34:32,945 --> 00:34:35,823 I said, "What I was doing is talking about self-help, 702 00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:37,325 you know, and mutual aid. 703 00:34:37,408 --> 00:34:40,453 We have to do something for ourselves, have to stop standing on the sidelines, 704 00:34:40,536 --> 00:34:43,623 asking white folks to do something for us that we could do for ourselves." 705 00:34:43,706 --> 00:34:45,708 He said, "I like that! That's what I'm all about!" 706 00:34:46,959 --> 00:34:51,297 And as I began to know Clarence, I realized that he was a lone stranger 707 00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:52,757 in the world he was operating in, 708 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,676 because he didn't dance, he didn't sing. 709 00:34:56,260 --> 00:35:00,890 You know, he was in the music business, but he was so much more than that. 710 00:35:00,973 --> 00:35:03,893 Right now, we turn our attention to the Soul Train Gang, 711 00:35:03,976 --> 00:35:06,771 the Soul Train Line, and a master storyteller, 712 00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:08,064 Mr. Curtis Mayfield. 713 00:35:08,147 --> 00:35:10,316 [Avant] You would have never heard 714 00:35:10,399 --> 00:35:13,319 95 percent of black artists 715 00:35:13,903 --> 00:35:15,571 without Soul Train. 716 00:35:16,489 --> 00:35:18,491 [funk music playing] 717 00:35:24,163 --> 00:35:26,290 [George] Soul Train was the weapon of the movement 718 00:35:26,374 --> 00:35:27,959 that it didn't know it had, which was joy. 719 00:35:30,253 --> 00:35:31,462 Before Soul Train, 720 00:35:31,546 --> 00:35:32,547 there had never been 721 00:35:33,089 --> 00:35:36,884 a weekly program show on national TV 722 00:35:36,968 --> 00:35:38,928 that featured black people, 723 00:35:39,011 --> 00:35:40,471 for black people, 724 00:35:40,555 --> 00:35:41,514 by black people. 725 00:35:41,597 --> 00:35:43,432 Not even anything close to it, really. 726 00:35:45,101 --> 00:35:49,230 And the amount of white people who would experience black culture 727 00:35:49,647 --> 00:35:51,941 for the first time in an undiluted way, 728 00:35:52,024 --> 00:35:55,027 that was-- Soul Train was that for them. And they couldn't get enough of it. 729 00:35:55,111 --> 00:35:59,157 Welcome aboard, you're right on time for another sweet ride on the Soul Train. 730 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:03,953 The unbelievable Al Green coming at you, right after this important message. 731 00:36:04,036 --> 00:36:05,663 [man clears throat] Haven't you forgotten something? 732 00:36:05,746 --> 00:36:07,707 Hey, aren't you Frederick Douglass? 733 00:36:08,457 --> 00:36:10,668 Yeah, we studied about you in school yesterday. 734 00:36:10,751 --> 00:36:13,212 About how you were a slave, and how you took your own freedom, 735 00:36:13,296 --> 00:36:15,214 and then began to fight for freedom and dignity 736 00:36:15,298 --> 00:36:16,507 for all our people. 737 00:36:16,591 --> 00:36:17,800 Say, but what did I forget? 738 00:36:17,884 --> 00:36:20,595 Are you gonna go out into the world with your hair looking like that? 739 00:36:21,137 --> 00:36:22,638 [George] You have a black TV show 740 00:36:22,722 --> 00:36:25,850 that is sponsored primarily by a black hair product company. 741 00:36:26,934 --> 00:36:31,480 Dick Clark had been the king of youth culture and dance TV 742 00:36:31,564 --> 00:36:34,025 since he joined American Bandstand in the '60s. 743 00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:35,985 [swing music playing] 744 00:36:36,068 --> 00:36:39,655 Almost every act who would pop, in any sense, played Bandstand. 745 00:36:40,198 --> 00:36:44,243 Every new dance that became hot around the country was on Bandstand. 746 00:36:44,327 --> 00:36:47,079 So Bandstand was a big, big force in the culture. 747 00:36:48,247 --> 00:36:51,918 And Soul Train was-- really, really threatened that, 748 00:36:52,001 --> 00:36:55,463 because it was a new style for America. 749 00:36:55,546 --> 00:36:58,466 Soul Train, you know, was obviously doing very very well. 750 00:36:59,008 --> 00:37:00,468 And Dick Clark had... 751 00:37:01,010 --> 00:37:04,472 um, unfortunately created 752 00:37:04,555 --> 00:37:05,973 a competing dance show. 753 00:37:06,057 --> 00:37:07,808 Hello! Thank you very much! 754 00:37:07,892 --> 00:37:09,477 Let me get untangled from this cord here. 755 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,479 [George] He starts this show called Soul Unlimited 756 00:37:11,562 --> 00:37:14,398 and gets a pseudo-Don Cornelius host on it. 757 00:37:14,482 --> 00:37:16,484 Did you like Japan a lot? 758 00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:18,152 Yeah, it was pretty good. Yeah. 759 00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:20,988 [George] He's on ABC. It was gonna come on after American Bandstand. 760 00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:22,365 It's gonna have a big preview. 761 00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:24,450 Also, its advertisers. 762 00:37:24,533 --> 00:37:28,371 [Tony] It came to Dick Clark versus Don Cornelius. 763 00:37:28,788 --> 00:37:31,582 My father actually was fighting for his life. 764 00:37:31,666 --> 00:37:34,418 [Avant] Dick Clark approached me, 765 00:37:34,502 --> 00:37:35,878 and he wanted me to endorse it. 766 00:37:35,962 --> 00:37:38,339 Now remember, I was a consultant at ABC. 767 00:37:38,422 --> 00:37:39,966 That's why he came to me. 768 00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:43,135 Dick Clark offered me a lot of money 769 00:37:43,761 --> 00:37:44,595 to do it. 770 00:37:45,596 --> 00:37:46,430 I said no. 771 00:37:48,516 --> 00:37:49,725 So, what I did, 772 00:37:50,309 --> 00:37:51,310 I went to New York. 773 00:37:52,561 --> 00:37:55,273 I said, "If you let Dick Clark go for it, 774 00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:58,067 I will put people in the street that will--" 775 00:37:58,150 --> 00:38:00,403 I didn't know what I was gonna do. You say all that shit, 776 00:38:00,486 --> 00:38:01,696 the white people got scared. 777 00:38:01,779 --> 00:38:03,906 He had the ability to walk in a room, 778 00:38:05,324 --> 00:38:08,536 tell people exactly what they needed to hear. 779 00:38:09,245 --> 00:38:11,372 And if you were smart, you listened. 780 00:38:11,872 --> 00:38:14,667 [Avant] And the decision was made bluntly. 781 00:38:15,126 --> 00:38:18,129 ABC would not move forward with Soul Unlimited. 782 00:38:18,713 --> 00:38:20,339 So I won that battle. 783 00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:24,885 [Tony] Clarence came to my father's aid and did his magic. 784 00:38:25,886 --> 00:38:28,389 I'm Don Cornelius, and as always in parting, 785 00:38:28,472 --> 00:38:31,767 we wish you love, peace, and soul! 786 00:38:34,228 --> 00:38:36,647 [Avant] Yeah, I helped a lot of people, but... 787 00:38:37,231 --> 00:38:42,153 my job, so far as I'm concerned, is to move us forward, period. 788 00:38:42,236 --> 00:38:45,031 That's all he's done. That's all he's ever done, anyway. 789 00:38:45,114 --> 00:38:45,948 You know, um... 790 00:38:47,074 --> 00:38:48,617 just help those who need help. 791 00:38:49,201 --> 00:38:51,120 But he's never forgotten, you know... 792 00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:56,792 the hardships. Never, you know, forgotten the pain. 793 00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:00,129 'Cause equality drives him. 794 00:39:01,047 --> 00:39:03,007 But I do think it's from his childhood. 795 00:39:03,257 --> 00:39:06,594 [Avant] We were poor, man. I'm talking about poor, poor, poor. 796 00:39:07,219 --> 00:39:10,473 We had chicken feet soup, we were so goddamn poor. 797 00:39:11,724 --> 00:39:14,310 Now if Quincy was here, he would say, "Well, you're from Climax." 798 00:39:14,393 --> 00:39:15,269 That's not true. 799 00:39:15,353 --> 00:39:18,689 I was born in Greensboro and raised in Climax. 800 00:39:19,899 --> 00:39:22,943 [Mitchell] There's no better place for Clarence to come from than Climax. 801 00:39:23,235 --> 00:39:27,156 Because... [chuckles] his whole career has been a series of climaxes 802 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,199 that shook the world. 803 00:39:29,075 --> 00:39:32,661 [Avant] There were eight children, and me being the oldest. 804 00:39:32,995 --> 00:39:34,455 Gertrude is my mother. 805 00:39:35,331 --> 00:39:37,500 [Nicole] I just have all these great memories of her. 806 00:39:37,917 --> 00:39:41,629 Yeah, she loved telling me stories about her childhood, which wasn't easy. 807 00:39:41,712 --> 00:39:44,298 She did domestic work since she was six years old. 808 00:39:44,382 --> 00:39:46,592 You know, it wasn't-- Her parents weren't technically slaves, 809 00:39:46,675 --> 00:39:48,344 but I mean, they were. 810 00:39:48,969 --> 00:39:53,641 And she was fast with her mouth, you know, and she didn't take any crap. 811 00:39:53,724 --> 00:39:56,185 They're very similar, my father and my grandmother. 812 00:39:57,353 --> 00:40:00,356 I know some people in the South where Clarence grew up. 813 00:40:00,439 --> 00:40:03,359 And I got a phone call one day from a good friend of mine, 814 00:40:03,442 --> 00:40:05,986 and he mentioned the word "sweet potato." 815 00:40:07,029 --> 00:40:09,657 And Clarence's nickname is "sweet potato." 816 00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:12,535 [Avant] 'Cause I would say, "Everybody's got a sandwich except me!" 817 00:40:12,618 --> 00:40:14,787 "Well, you ain't got one. Get your ass outta here." 818 00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:17,248 And I would be so embarrassed 819 00:40:17,331 --> 00:40:19,667 because everybody would have-- And they would tease me. 820 00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:20,751 "Sweet potato." 821 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,671 That's all I had to carry to school, was sweet potato. 822 00:40:24,797 --> 00:40:28,134 [Nicole] Growing up, you know, being born in 1931 in the South 823 00:40:28,634 --> 00:40:30,553 and living under Jim Crow law, 824 00:40:30,678 --> 00:40:33,431 he saw a lot of things that nobody should see. 825 00:40:34,932 --> 00:40:37,184 [Avant] How do I describe racism then? 826 00:40:38,644 --> 00:40:40,896 The KKK was all around us. 827 00:40:41,689 --> 00:40:43,399 My mother would just tell us, 828 00:40:43,482 --> 00:40:47,570 "If you hear a car coming, run and hide, 829 00:40:47,653 --> 00:40:50,573 lay down flat." You know, just to protect yourself. 830 00:40:51,657 --> 00:40:54,201 [interviewer] Was your father ever with you during your childhood? 831 00:40:54,285 --> 00:40:55,911 [Avant] Nope, I was born out of wedlock. 832 00:40:57,037 --> 00:40:58,706 Well, I saw him a few times. 833 00:40:58,789 --> 00:41:01,417 He'd never give me shit, so he didn't mean anything to me. 834 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:04,044 But I didn't have a father... 835 00:41:05,087 --> 00:41:06,046 per se. 836 00:41:06,922 --> 00:41:07,923 I had a stepfather. 837 00:41:09,758 --> 00:41:12,803 Gert, she was married to a gentleman called Eddie Woods. 838 00:41:13,012 --> 00:41:15,139 And I certainly didn't get along with him. 839 00:41:16,223 --> 00:41:17,766 I knew he was very mean. 840 00:41:18,350 --> 00:41:21,312 I knew he was very abusive. I knew he was physically abusive. 841 00:41:21,395 --> 00:41:23,606 My mother used to get the shit beat out of her. 842 00:41:24,148 --> 00:41:25,399 And I was tired of it. 843 00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:28,486 And I was like 12, 13 years old, I guess. 844 00:41:28,569 --> 00:41:31,238 So one day, I put some rat poison in his food. 845 00:41:32,907 --> 00:41:33,741 So my... 846 00:41:34,533 --> 00:41:37,578 brother who is deceased, Weldon... Poochie, we called him... 847 00:41:38,162 --> 00:41:40,164 Poochie said, "You better not eat that." 848 00:41:40,956 --> 00:41:42,041 I had to leave. 849 00:41:45,544 --> 00:41:48,881 I went to my Aunt Annie in Summit, New Jersey. 850 00:41:49,757 --> 00:41:53,636 And I had never been on a train before or anything like that. 851 00:41:54,887 --> 00:41:57,056 And after going to New Jersey, 852 00:41:57,556 --> 00:41:59,683 it was a whole new world that I had never even-- 853 00:41:59,767 --> 00:42:01,101 couldn't even imagine. 854 00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:03,020 If he hadn't left the South-- 855 00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:06,106 and especially, he was in the Carolinas in the period he was in-- 856 00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:09,485 the opportunity for him to move forward was very limited. 857 00:42:09,568 --> 00:42:11,403 Especially someone who didn't have an education, 858 00:42:11,487 --> 00:42:12,905 wasn't part of any black elite. 859 00:42:12,988 --> 00:42:15,824 The Great Migration had started in the '20s, really, 860 00:42:15,908 --> 00:42:20,371 and '30s, and '40s, '50s, scores of black Americans went north. 861 00:42:20,913 --> 00:42:25,668 So Clarence ended up in New Jersey, which is where his aunt lived. 862 00:42:26,168 --> 00:42:28,963 She was the first of the Avants to go north. 863 00:42:30,631 --> 00:42:34,051 [Avant] A few years later, I got this job at Martindale-Hubbell. 864 00:42:34,635 --> 00:42:35,970 It was a law directory. 865 00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:39,848 "What did you do at Martindale-Hubbell?" What did black people do in those days? 866 00:42:39,932 --> 00:42:41,600 There was no such thing as black executives, 867 00:42:41,684 --> 00:42:44,687 so you just carried books or whatever you were doing. 868 00:42:46,397 --> 00:42:49,775 I used to watch television or read the papers, and... 869 00:42:50,734 --> 00:42:52,319 my whole life changed... 870 00:42:53,445 --> 00:42:56,198 ...when Emmett Till got killed. 871 00:42:57,616 --> 00:43:00,286 The Emmett Till case is one of those seminal events 872 00:43:00,369 --> 00:43:03,831 in race relations in America that really pointed out... 873 00:43:04,665 --> 00:43:07,835 the disparity of justice when it came to black Americans. 874 00:43:08,919 --> 00:43:10,879 Emmett Till was a young kid. 875 00:43:11,422 --> 00:43:15,551 Summer vacation, you know, went down south with his relatives to Mississippi. 876 00:43:16,093 --> 00:43:19,054 The story goes that he saw a woman, a white woman, 877 00:43:19,388 --> 00:43:21,849 who claims that he whistled at her. 878 00:43:23,058 --> 00:43:25,853 And he was found the next morning brutally murdered. 879 00:43:27,938 --> 00:43:30,941 His mother brings the body back to Chicago, 880 00:43:31,025 --> 00:43:33,235 and everyone says it should be a closed casket, 881 00:43:33,319 --> 00:43:36,405 but no, she wants the world to see what happened to her son. 882 00:43:47,333 --> 00:43:51,003 The photograph of Emmett Till's body is, 883 00:43:51,086 --> 00:43:53,088 you know, for kids today, it went viral. 884 00:43:53,714 --> 00:43:55,716 [Avant] It was the day after he was killed. 885 00:43:56,925 --> 00:43:58,802 I started crying and screaming... 886 00:44:00,054 --> 00:44:01,847 how badly I hated white people. 887 00:44:03,432 --> 00:44:05,768 The gentleman that run the place, 888 00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:07,561 his name was Mr. Nofer. 889 00:44:09,063 --> 00:44:10,272 He came out... 890 00:44:10,856 --> 00:44:14,026 told me to come in his office. Everybody knew that I was fired. 891 00:44:14,985 --> 00:44:18,614 And he said that they were all terrified for him. Terrified. 892 00:44:19,323 --> 00:44:22,368 Not only because it was clear that he was going to be fired, 893 00:44:22,743 --> 00:44:26,372 but, you know, you are a black man, even in New York, 894 00:44:26,455 --> 00:44:28,290 going off about white people. 895 00:44:30,042 --> 00:44:31,043 In America. 896 00:44:31,627 --> 00:44:33,629 I went in his office and... [pants] 897 00:44:33,712 --> 00:44:34,922 I sat on the couch. 898 00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:39,343 He said, "I understand your emotions." 899 00:44:41,637 --> 00:44:45,224 So he said, "I'm not gonna fire you, but you can't do it again." 900 00:44:46,642 --> 00:44:49,395 That clearly changed my life 901 00:44:49,478 --> 00:44:52,606 in terms of civil rights, or whatever you wanna call it. 902 00:44:52,690 --> 00:44:53,857 It just changed me. 903 00:44:59,029 --> 00:45:02,449 [news anchor] Memphis is a confused and shocked city tonight. 904 00:45:02,533 --> 00:45:04,743 No one can believe what has happened. 905 00:45:04,827 --> 00:45:08,997 It's been just a little over an hour since Dr. Martin Luther King died 906 00:45:09,081 --> 00:45:10,582 from an assassin's bullet. 907 00:45:13,085 --> 00:45:15,295 Reverend Andrew Young, King's top lieutenant, 908 00:45:15,379 --> 00:45:18,674 was at the hospital awaiting word and described the shooting. 909 00:45:19,383 --> 00:45:22,594 As he came out of his room, on the edge of the balcony, 910 00:45:22,678 --> 00:45:25,389 he was shot. And we thought a firecracker had gone on. 911 00:45:25,472 --> 00:45:27,766 Most of us were downstairs on the lower level. 912 00:45:28,267 --> 00:45:32,020 And we immediately ran up and saw that he'd been pretty badly wounded 913 00:45:32,104 --> 00:45:35,858 and sent for the ambulance, and the police, and everybody. 914 00:45:39,528 --> 00:45:44,158 [Dr. King] A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right. 915 00:45:44,908 --> 00:45:48,620 A man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice. 916 00:45:48,704 --> 00:45:49,538 [woman] Yeah! 917 00:45:49,621 --> 00:45:55,043 A man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true. 918 00:45:55,127 --> 00:45:56,962 In the wake of Dr. King's assassination, 919 00:45:57,045 --> 00:45:58,380 we wanted to do something. 920 00:46:00,048 --> 00:46:02,009 [man] Clarence had come up with the idea, 921 00:46:02,092 --> 00:46:05,429 Clarence and Jesse, of putting on a big concert, 922 00:46:05,512 --> 00:46:08,223 a five-day kind of music festival. 923 00:46:08,724 --> 00:46:10,350 [playing piano] 924 00:46:15,105 --> 00:46:17,107 [applause] 925 00:46:24,573 --> 00:46:29,828 ♪ Oh, who really cares? ♪ 926 00:46:32,956 --> 00:46:34,875 ♪ Who's willing to try ♪ 927 00:46:38,420 --> 00:46:41,006 ♪ Oh, to save the world ♪ 928 00:46:45,135 --> 00:46:46,887 ♪ To save our sweet world? ♪ 929 00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:50,891 We happen to have with us, in the studio, a very dear friend 930 00:46:50,974 --> 00:46:54,019 who is the executive producer of that film. 931 00:46:54,102 --> 00:46:56,480 He's a man who has helped many, many careers 932 00:46:56,563 --> 00:46:59,358 during his career, including my career, 933 00:46:59,441 --> 00:47:01,068 and I'd like for you to welcome him warmly, 934 00:47:01,151 --> 00:47:03,237 Soul Train Gang, Mr. Clarence Avant. 935 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:04,154 [applause] 936 00:47:06,406 --> 00:47:07,616 All right. 937 00:47:07,699 --> 00:47:09,618 -How're you doing, Clarence? -A little nervous. 938 00:47:10,327 --> 00:47:11,912 -I'm a little nervous. -You of all people? 939 00:47:11,995 --> 00:47:13,831 -Yeah. -Clarence... 940 00:47:14,164 --> 00:47:17,626 I'd like to get into how you got involved in Save The Children, 941 00:47:17,709 --> 00:47:20,170 as its executive producer. 942 00:47:20,254 --> 00:47:23,298 We were able to work with Reverend Jesse Jackson, 943 00:47:23,382 --> 00:47:25,133 come up with an idea that this film should be made 944 00:47:25,217 --> 00:47:26,969 after looking at all that talent out there, 945 00:47:27,052 --> 00:47:29,763 and so, in 1972, we filmed it. 946 00:47:30,347 --> 00:47:32,641 As a dealmaker, he's the best in the business. 947 00:47:32,724 --> 00:47:36,603 There's no negotiating dealmaker in Hollywood 948 00:47:36,895 --> 00:47:39,356 or New York better than Clarence Avant, just none. 949 00:47:40,023 --> 00:47:42,609 [man] I used to say, "Why do ya'll all defer to Clarence?" 950 00:47:42,693 --> 00:47:47,239 He said, "Clarence Avant's the only one that has the muscle," 951 00:47:47,322 --> 00:47:50,242 was the term they used, "to get a lot of these artists." 952 00:47:50,325 --> 00:47:52,202 'Cause you gotta remember, in the '70s, now, 953 00:47:52,286 --> 00:47:55,998 the mob had a lot of control in the music industry. 954 00:47:56,331 --> 00:47:57,833 I said, "He knows gangsters?" 955 00:47:57,916 --> 00:48:00,419 He knows how to talk to everybody. He's not with them, 956 00:48:00,502 --> 00:48:02,087 but he knows how to talk to 'em. 957 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,758 I was looking for a tall, imposing man. 958 00:48:07,926 --> 00:48:10,596 And in those days, everybody was bright, 959 00:48:11,346 --> 00:48:15,183 darn near white, and curly-haired. They used to call it "good hair." 960 00:48:15,267 --> 00:48:16,643 And this very short, 961 00:48:16,935 --> 00:48:22,482 dark-skinned brother came in, who was very emphatic, you know, 962 00:48:22,566 --> 00:48:24,276 like a guy like your uncle at... 963 00:48:24,359 --> 00:48:25,360 [stutters] 964 00:48:25,444 --> 00:48:26,278 at a reunion. 965 00:48:26,361 --> 00:48:27,487 [imitates indistinct speech] 966 00:48:27,571 --> 00:48:29,698 One of the things that's unique about Save The Children, 967 00:48:29,781 --> 00:48:33,911 and one reason the roster is so great, is that it was able to bring together 968 00:48:33,994 --> 00:48:36,914 the three dominant labels in black music at that time, 969 00:48:36,997 --> 00:48:40,375 which was Motown, Stax, and Atlantic Records. 970 00:48:40,459 --> 00:48:44,755 No other event ever brought all of that talent together on one stage. 971 00:48:44,838 --> 00:48:46,506 [Adolph] The film that resulted 972 00:48:46,590 --> 00:48:50,052 featured the best and the brightest of black acts of the day. 973 00:48:50,135 --> 00:48:52,804 [Rev. Sharpton] Jesse wanted to have a black crew. 974 00:48:53,347 --> 00:48:55,974 Black this, black that, black that. 975 00:48:56,308 --> 00:48:58,018 Clarence told me I was the director. 976 00:48:58,352 --> 00:49:00,437 He said, "You the producer, and you the director." 977 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,522 We want black folks out there on them cameras. 978 00:49:02,606 --> 00:49:05,651 ♪ Oh, baby, give me one more chance ♪ 979 00:49:05,734 --> 00:49:06,944 ♪ Show you that I love you ♪ 980 00:49:07,027 --> 00:49:11,073 -♪ Won't you please let me -♪ Back in your heart ♪ 981 00:49:11,156 --> 00:49:14,368 ♪ Oh, darling, I was blind to let you go ♪ 982 00:49:14,451 --> 00:49:15,786 ♪ Let you go, baby ♪ 983 00:49:15,869 --> 00:49:20,082 -♪ Not since I've seen you in his arms ♪ -♪ I want you back ♪ 984 00:49:20,165 --> 00:49:22,250 -♪ Yes, I do, now ♪ -♪ I want you back ♪ 985 00:49:22,334 --> 00:49:24,628 -♪ Ooh, ooh, baby ♪ -♪ I want you back ♪ 986 00:49:24,711 --> 00:49:26,421 -♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ -♪ I want you back ♪ 987 00:49:26,505 --> 00:49:29,967 It's also got brilliant, brillant documentary footage 988 00:49:30,050 --> 00:49:32,260 of Sammy. There's an amazing section 989 00:49:32,344 --> 00:49:35,389 where he comes out to an all-black crowd in Chicago, 990 00:49:35,472 --> 00:49:37,057 and they're booing his ass. 991 00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:39,142 [audience booing] 992 00:49:41,728 --> 00:49:45,524 If you look at that Save The Children, he was clearly nervous. 993 00:49:45,607 --> 00:49:48,568 He was nervous 'cause they caught him hugging Nixon, man, 994 00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:50,112 and they booed him. 995 00:49:51,279 --> 00:49:54,866 [George] Clarence convinced the naysayers to give Sammy a place on the show, 996 00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:56,576 so he could state his case to the crowd. 997 00:49:56,910 --> 00:50:00,122 [Davis, Jr.] Disagree, if you will, with my politics... 998 00:50:00,622 --> 00:50:01,665 [audience clamoring] 999 00:50:01,748 --> 00:50:02,666 Good. 1000 00:50:03,166 --> 00:50:04,001 Good! 1001 00:50:04,918 --> 00:50:06,878 Good, but don't... 1002 00:50:08,046 --> 00:50:11,675 I will not allow anyone to take away... 1003 00:50:12,467 --> 00:50:15,220 the fact that I am black. 1004 00:50:15,303 --> 00:50:17,806 [audience cheers] 1005 00:50:17,889 --> 00:50:19,266 And then sings, you know, 1006 00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:20,726 "I Gotta Be Me." 1007 00:50:20,809 --> 00:50:27,524 ♪ Daring to try, to do it or die ♪ 1008 00:50:28,567 --> 00:50:32,988 ♪ I gotta be ♪ 1009 00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:39,536 ♪ Me ♪ 1010 00:50:43,874 --> 00:50:45,876 -[song stops] -[audience cheers] 1011 00:50:49,713 --> 00:50:51,882 [George] And people are crying at the end of this thing, 1012 00:50:51,965 --> 00:50:55,260 and I'm-- You're damn near crying, because this is not just a performance. 1013 00:50:55,343 --> 00:50:56,678 This is a man who's really saying, 1014 00:50:56,762 --> 00:50:59,973 "No, I am one of you, and I-- Don't judge me this way." 1015 00:51:02,267 --> 00:51:04,978 [Nicole] My father has this great sense of music. 1016 00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:07,481 He understands the vibration of music. 1017 00:51:08,315 --> 00:51:11,359 He understands that music changes the way you feel. 1018 00:51:11,443 --> 00:51:14,279 He understands the power of music. 1019 00:51:14,362 --> 00:51:15,739 I used to call him Magic, 1020 00:51:16,323 --> 00:51:21,787 because he connects all of these worlds and makes them his reality. 1021 00:51:22,287 --> 00:51:24,915 He's in the music business. He's in the movie bu-- 1022 00:51:24,998 --> 00:51:28,418 He's in the entertainment business, but he's also in politics. 1023 00:51:29,753 --> 00:51:32,380 [Avant] There was a guy running for Congress. 1024 00:51:32,464 --> 00:51:35,550 He would've been the first black guy from the South. 1025 00:51:36,301 --> 00:51:37,803 I'm Andrew Young. 1026 00:51:38,637 --> 00:51:42,099 My preparation for politics and my previous experience 1027 00:51:42,182 --> 00:51:45,102 was somewhat different from that of most of my colleagues. 1028 00:51:46,019 --> 00:51:48,063 That's me in St. Augustine, Florida. 1029 00:51:49,940 --> 00:51:52,984 Andy really didn't know me, and I really didn't know him. 1030 00:51:53,568 --> 00:51:54,903 So I call Andy. 1031 00:51:55,695 --> 00:51:58,615 He called up and he said, "You Andy Young?" I said, "Yeah." 1032 00:51:59,491 --> 00:52:03,036 He said, "You running for Congress?" I said, "Yeah." 1033 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,081 He said, "In Georgia?" I said, "Yeah." 1034 00:52:06,665 --> 00:52:08,500 He said, "Nigga, are you crazy?" 1035 00:52:08,583 --> 00:52:10,210 [chuckles] 1036 00:52:11,294 --> 00:52:14,214 I said, "Well, I don't know. I probably am." 1037 00:52:15,048 --> 00:52:17,092 He said, "Well, if you crazy enough to run, 1038 00:52:17,175 --> 00:52:18,802 I'm crazy enough to try to help you. 1039 00:52:21,346 --> 00:52:22,180 What do you need?" 1040 00:52:23,557 --> 00:52:25,058 I said, "I need everything." 1041 00:52:26,059 --> 00:52:28,061 I said, "Suppose I can deliver... 1042 00:52:28,895 --> 00:52:29,896 Isaac Hayes... 1043 00:52:30,772 --> 00:52:31,815 and the Rare Earth." 1044 00:52:32,899 --> 00:52:35,777 He said, "I don't have any money!" I said, "I didn't ask you that." 1045 00:52:35,861 --> 00:52:37,195 Andy said, next thing he knows, 1046 00:52:37,279 --> 00:52:40,240 he's driving down the street, there's a big billboard on the street, 1047 00:52:40,323 --> 00:52:42,868 saying, "Concert coming for Andy Young," 1048 00:52:42,951 --> 00:52:44,452 and he's got all these artists coming. 1049 00:52:44,536 --> 00:52:46,371 I mean, it was just-- it was just magical. 1050 00:52:47,622 --> 00:52:50,584 [Young] So they showed up, and in the pouring-down rain. 1051 00:52:52,252 --> 00:52:53,753 We had 30,000 people. 1052 00:52:56,214 --> 00:52:58,675 And that launched my political campaign. 1053 00:52:59,259 --> 00:53:01,261 [funk music playing] 1054 00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:08,768 [Young] My dedication is not just to blacks. 1055 00:53:09,102 --> 00:53:11,980 My dedication is to anybody in this society 1056 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,318 that has not had an opportunity to enjoy all of the rights  1057 00:53:16,401 --> 00:53:18,111 and privileges of this society. 1058 00:53:20,488 --> 00:53:24,284 The one thing Mr. Glaser said to me... 1059 00:53:26,203 --> 00:53:28,830 You have no rights unless you have the right to vote. 1060 00:53:29,414 --> 00:53:33,585 I believe in, heavily, in the political system. Period. 1061 00:53:34,461 --> 00:53:36,046 His attraction to politics, 1062 00:53:36,838 --> 00:53:39,424 again, is first and foremost as somebody who likes people 1063 00:53:39,507 --> 00:53:41,718 who have that thing that nobody else has, 1064 00:53:42,052 --> 00:53:44,930 and seeing that. And responding to that, 1065 00:53:45,013 --> 00:53:49,059 again, that way of just seeking people out who you would be surprised he knew about. 1066 00:53:49,142 --> 00:53:52,395 He called me and he said, "Do you really know this Jimmy Carter?" 1067 00:53:54,356 --> 00:53:55,315 I said, "Yeah." 1068 00:53:57,150 --> 00:53:59,110 He said, "You not gonna get me 1069 00:53:59,194 --> 00:54:01,279 out here supporting some Georgia cracker..." 1070 00:54:01,363 --> 00:54:02,864 [chuckles] 1071 00:54:02,948 --> 00:54:05,659 "...and get embarrassed." He said, "I want to help him." 1072 00:54:06,493 --> 00:54:09,621 [Avant] I decided to mix it up like a scrambled egg and get involved. 1073 00:54:10,205 --> 00:54:13,041 You can't go just one way, one color. 1074 00:54:13,124 --> 00:54:15,418 You have to look at the whole system, 1075 00:54:15,502 --> 00:54:18,129 and I look at the whole spectrum 1076 00:54:18,713 --> 00:54:20,090 of this country. 1077 00:54:21,341 --> 00:54:24,886 [man] When Jimmy Carter decided to run for office, 1078 00:54:25,387 --> 00:54:28,890 Clarence pulled most of Hollywood together 1079 00:54:28,974 --> 00:54:31,184 to support this peanut farmer from Georgia. 1080 00:54:31,685 --> 00:54:33,019 So I think he organized 1081 00:54:33,103 --> 00:54:36,147 one of the first big fundraisers for Jimmy Carter. 1082 00:54:38,441 --> 00:54:40,443 [Medina] You go to a Clarence Avant event, 1083 00:54:40,527 --> 00:54:42,988 it would be Lew Wasserman, 1084 00:54:43,071 --> 00:54:44,990 Quincy Jones, and Barbra Streisand, 1085 00:54:45,073 --> 00:54:46,032 and Diana Ross, 1086 00:54:46,116 --> 00:54:47,033 and Berry Gordy. 1087 00:54:47,117 --> 00:54:49,494 So it was the fact that he had this net. 1088 00:54:50,829 --> 00:54:53,540 [Jacqueline] They always had people at the house. 1089 00:54:53,623 --> 00:54:57,127 We were either going to an event, or an event was at our house, 1090 00:54:57,210 --> 00:54:58,628 or they were always involved. 1091 00:54:58,712 --> 00:55:00,463 Ted Kennedy was always at the house. 1092 00:55:00,839 --> 00:55:03,758 [George] He saw very clearly that celebrity was power. 1093 00:55:04,592 --> 00:55:06,094 [President Obama] Look, I think Clarence 1094 00:55:06,553 --> 00:55:09,973 is somebody who cared about politics 1095 00:55:10,056 --> 00:55:13,518 because he recognized that economic progress, 1096 00:55:13,727 --> 00:55:16,021 cultural progress, social progress, 1097 00:55:16,479 --> 00:55:19,774 political progress are all tied together. 1098 00:55:27,115 --> 00:55:31,995 [announcer] Three-one pitch. There's a drive into left field! 1099 00:55:32,078 --> 00:55:34,748 That ball is going, going, and outta here! 1100 00:55:36,041 --> 00:55:39,502 Henry Aaron has just tied Babe Ruth 1101 00:55:39,586 --> 00:55:42,589 in the all-time home-run parade! 1102 00:55:43,757 --> 00:55:46,384 [Young] Clarence called me up and said, "Andy, you know Hank Aaron?"  1103 00:55:47,052 --> 00:55:49,387 I said, "Yeah, he lives around the corner." He said, 1104 00:55:49,971 --> 00:55:52,349 "If he's about to break Babe Ruth's record,  1105 00:55:52,932 --> 00:55:54,851 he's supposed to make some money." 1106 00:55:54,934 --> 00:55:56,561 He said, "I'm not talking about his salary, 1107 00:55:56,644 --> 00:55:59,481 I'm talking about him having endorsements. 1108 00:56:00,231 --> 00:56:05,236 Will you tell him that I'm not crazy and I'mma call him?" 1109 00:56:06,446 --> 00:56:09,407 I said, "Well, I can't vouch for you not being crazy! 1110 00:56:09,491 --> 00:56:12,452 But I'll tell him that you've been very helpful to me 1111 00:56:12,535 --> 00:56:13,703 and he oughta talk to you." 1112 00:56:15,288 --> 00:56:16,790 [Aaron] I wasn't getting any offers. 1113 00:56:17,916 --> 00:56:22,295 I was somewhat reserved. I was somewhat, um... 1114 00:56:22,379 --> 00:56:25,131 I thought that everything should come to me. 1115 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,675 I explained to him, I said, "Hank, 1116 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,471 I'm not really a sports fan. But... 1117 00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:33,890 I'll try to help you." 1118 00:56:34,474 --> 00:56:36,893 I said, "You gotta understand numbers, man. 1119 00:56:37,727 --> 00:56:40,980 If you haven't made a deal before you hit 715, 1120 00:56:42,232 --> 00:56:43,483 who the fuck cares?" 1121 00:56:44,067 --> 00:56:46,361 That was the magic number in baseball forever. 1122 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,615 No one's gonna break Babe Ruth's 714. Now, Babe Ruth, you have to understand, 1123 00:56:50,698 --> 00:56:52,117 has become a mythological figure. 1124 00:56:52,534 --> 00:56:53,618 He was the Bambino. 1125 00:56:53,701 --> 00:56:55,954 He was larger-than-life. Played for the New York Yankees, 1126 00:56:56,037 --> 00:56:58,039 which is the greatest baseball franchise in history. 1127 00:56:58,123 --> 00:57:01,960 He won a lot of championships, so there's an investment in him 1128 00:57:02,043 --> 00:57:04,963 as this almost-mythical figure embodiment of baseball, 1129 00:57:05,046 --> 00:57:06,923 embodiment of the American Dream. 1130 00:57:08,299 --> 00:57:12,262 So, when this black man begins inching closer to his record, 1131 00:57:13,263 --> 00:57:15,640 there's, like, a national sense of crisis. 1132 00:57:17,058 --> 00:57:18,810 He gets letters, I mean,  1133 00:57:18,893 --> 00:57:20,979 flooding into the stadium in Atlanta. 1134 00:57:21,604 --> 00:57:22,647 "Nigger, don't do this." 1135 00:57:22,730 --> 00:57:24,899 "Nigger, you'll never-- I'll shoot you on the field." 1136 00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:27,193 [Aaron] That was the hardest part. 1137 00:57:27,694 --> 00:57:29,237 I wasn't able to enjoy it. 1138 00:57:30,947 --> 00:57:33,450 Clarence, on the other hand, was... 1139 00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:35,326 the type of person that, 1140 00:57:35,952 --> 00:57:38,037 if he wanted something, he would go after it. 1141 00:57:38,121 --> 00:57:40,331 He wanted me to be part of Coca-Cola. 1142 00:57:40,665 --> 00:57:43,751 He wanted Henry Aaron to be part of Coca-Cola. 1143 00:57:45,336 --> 00:57:47,380 So what he did, he said, "I'm gonna go up here 1144 00:57:47,464 --> 00:57:50,133 and talk to these SOBs," you know. 1145 00:57:50,216 --> 00:57:51,801 [laughs] 1146 00:57:51,885 --> 00:57:57,056 He walked up to the president's office in Coca-Cola. Now, this is unheard of. 1147 00:57:58,558 --> 00:58:00,643 Mr. Austin met with me. 1148 00:58:01,186 --> 00:58:02,645 Right to his office, 1149 00:58:02,729 --> 00:58:04,606 and looked him in the face-- 1150 00:58:04,689 --> 00:58:07,609 [interviewer] You look at him nose-to-nose. And you don't say hello. 1151 00:58:08,026 --> 00:58:11,112 You just go, "Niggas drink a lot of Coke." 1152 00:58:11,279 --> 00:58:12,197 Yep. 1153 00:58:13,114 --> 00:58:14,365 [Aaron] He said, "You got 1154 00:58:14,449 --> 00:58:17,827 a nigga drinking Coca-Cola here, and he does well, 1155 00:58:18,286 --> 00:58:19,704 plays ball in your town. 1156 00:58:20,246 --> 00:58:22,248 I want him to be part of your family." 1157 00:58:22,332 --> 00:58:23,708 [laughs] 1158 00:58:24,626 --> 00:58:27,003 He got the biggest contract for me 1159 00:58:27,086 --> 00:58:31,049 that any sports figure had ever had back in the days when I was playing. 1160 00:58:31,508 --> 00:58:33,176 [announcer] One ball and no strikes, 1161 00:58:33,259 --> 00:58:35,762 Aaron waiting, the outfield deep and straightaway. 1162 00:58:35,845 --> 00:58:39,098 Fastball, it's a high-fly to the deep left center field! 1163 00:58:39,182 --> 00:58:42,977 Buster goes back to the fence! It is gone! 1164 00:58:43,061 --> 00:58:45,438 [crowd cheering] 1165 00:58:46,272 --> 00:58:49,234 What a marvelous moment for baseball! 1166 00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:53,655 What a marvelous moment for Atlanta and the state of Georgia! 1167 00:58:54,030 --> 00:58:57,951 A black man is getting a standing ovation in the Deep South 1168 00:58:58,576 --> 00:59:02,830 for breaking a record of an all-time baseball idol! 1169 00:59:02,914 --> 00:59:05,708 And it is a great moment for all of us, 1170 00:59:05,917 --> 00:59:08,002 and particularly for... 1171 00:59:09,504 --> 00:59:10,421 [Young] It was... 1172 00:59:10,505 --> 00:59:13,925 his connection to Clarence that helped him to know 1173 00:59:14,008 --> 00:59:16,469 how to market his value. 1174 00:59:17,428 --> 00:59:19,222 That's been a marriage made in heaven 1175 00:59:19,305 --> 00:59:22,684 because Hank has probably given away more money 1176 00:59:22,767 --> 00:59:25,562 to poor kids through his Chasing the Dream Foundation 1177 00:59:25,645 --> 00:59:28,606 than he made in all the years he was in baseball. 1178 00:59:29,232 --> 00:59:32,986 Henry Aaron would not be Henry Aaron if it were not for Clarence Avant. 1179 00:59:33,486 --> 00:59:36,239 When you're young, you don't know your worth sometimes. 1180 00:59:36,322 --> 00:59:38,241 He was telling him, "Yo, your worth is this. 1181 00:59:38,324 --> 00:59:40,785 This is the money you should be looking for out of this position 1182 00:59:40,868 --> 00:59:42,579 because they pay your counterpart, 1183 00:59:42,662 --> 00:59:44,914 somebody who's white, Asian, or otherwise, 1184 00:59:44,998 --> 00:59:47,584 that does the same thing, or less, this amount of money." 1185 00:59:47,667 --> 00:59:49,127 Getting true value... 1186 00:59:50,128 --> 00:59:53,715 is one of those things that, as Clarence grows, 1187 00:59:54,090 --> 00:59:55,675 this becomes a touchstone. 1188 00:59:56,593 --> 00:59:59,971 [Lathan] Clarence put together a tribute to Muhammad Ali, 1189 01:00:00,430 --> 01:00:02,140 and he got ABC to do it, 1190 01:00:02,348 --> 01:00:05,268 and then he demanded that they hire me as the director. 1191 01:00:05,351 --> 01:00:08,187 And they said, "This guy doesn't direct these things! 1192 01:00:08,271 --> 01:00:11,983 This is a black show, yeah, but we don't need-- I mean, come on!" 1193 01:00:12,066 --> 01:00:13,526 So I told this guy, 1194 01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:15,236 "You got one week. 1195 01:00:16,446 --> 01:00:18,531 I'm using Stan Lathan. 1196 01:00:19,157 --> 01:00:20,575 You either in or you out." 1197 01:00:21,451 --> 01:00:23,161 He went into somebody's office 1198 01:00:23,703 --> 01:00:26,914 and banged on their desk or did whatever he had to do 1199 01:00:26,998 --> 01:00:28,666 for me to get a call from my agent, saying, 1200 01:00:28,750 --> 01:00:32,879 "Guess what, man? They want you to direct an ABC special!" 1201 01:00:33,671 --> 01:00:35,840 I said, "No kidding." laughs] 1202 01:00:35,923 --> 01:00:37,925 [crowd clamoring] 1203 01:00:38,259 --> 01:00:40,470 [Sarandos] Muhammad Ali, the greatest fighter of all time. 1204 01:00:41,804 --> 01:00:44,098 And there's Clarence, at the end of the career, 1205 01:00:44,182 --> 01:00:45,975 kind of giving him that last pop 1206 01:00:46,476 --> 01:00:50,605 that helped him solidify his reputation as a personality, 1207 01:00:50,688 --> 01:00:51,564 not just a fighter. 1208 01:00:51,648 --> 01:00:53,816 -It's gonna be a killer! -[playing chords on piano] 1209 01:00:53,941 --> 01:00:54,901 And a chiller! 1210 01:00:55,318 --> 01:00:56,444 And a thriller! 1211 01:00:56,694 --> 01:00:59,072 When I get the Gorilla in Manila! 1212 01:00:59,155 --> 01:01:00,031 [audience laughs] 1213 01:01:00,114 --> 01:01:01,115 Right on. 1214 01:01:04,369 --> 01:01:05,828 All right! 1215 01:01:08,915 --> 01:01:12,502 [Mitchell] It's so funny that Clarence is content to be behind the scenes, 1216 01:01:12,585 --> 01:01:14,295 because he just registers 1217 01:01:14,379 --> 01:01:18,299 so impressively and so powerfully. 1218 01:01:18,383 --> 01:01:21,969 And so, I think that because of that... 1219 01:01:24,847 --> 01:01:26,474 hunger, you know, 1220 01:01:26,557 --> 01:01:29,268 that people just want to be in business with him. 1221 01:01:30,019 --> 01:01:33,106 You know, I just-- I don't know how I got involved with anything, man. 1222 01:01:33,189 --> 01:01:34,273 I just took shots. 1223 01:01:34,357 --> 01:01:36,526 So, in my mind, I've been like this, man. 1224 01:01:37,860 --> 01:01:39,654 Everything you want to be involved in. 1225 01:01:40,196 --> 01:01:44,242 The whole idea... of the '70s, when I was growing up, 1226 01:01:44,325 --> 01:01:48,788 into the '80s was blacks wanted to own and control... 1227 01:01:49,455 --> 01:01:53,334 their own institution and their own culture. 1228 01:01:53,418 --> 01:01:56,003 Clarence becomes an embodiment of that because he's a link 1229 01:01:56,087 --> 01:01:59,841 between the black business world, the idea of black entrepreneurship, 1230 01:01:59,924 --> 01:02:02,176 and black people controlling their environment. 1231 01:02:02,260 --> 01:02:05,471 He's able to work with white institutions to get money from them, 1232 01:02:05,555 --> 01:02:09,016 and he's tied into black music, which is driving a lot of the messaging 1233 01:02:09,100 --> 01:02:12,645 around black identity, and black confidence, and black power. 1234 01:02:12,729 --> 01:02:15,022 ["Strawberry Letter #23" plays] 1235 01:02:17,859 --> 01:02:22,363 [Avant] There was only one radio station that I knew of that was owned by blacks. 1236 01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:24,866 So I decided to... 1237 01:02:26,033 --> 01:02:30,037 expand my whatever, and I bought a radio station. 1238 01:02:32,415 --> 01:02:34,792 A local radio station, it was in Inglewood. 1239 01:02:36,169 --> 01:02:41,215 When I bought it, I changed its name to Avant Garde Broadcasting, KAGB. 1240 01:02:43,259 --> 01:02:45,344 When you're in the sales department at a radio station, 1241 01:02:45,428 --> 01:02:46,345 you're always hustling. 1242 01:02:46,929 --> 01:02:49,140 So you're always trying to sell that time, 1243 01:02:49,223 --> 01:02:50,975 that 60-second time buy. 1244 01:02:51,058 --> 01:02:54,729 So, I mean, you just have to go out there and sell sell, sell. 1245 01:02:57,190 --> 01:03:01,611 [Hughes] It's still rough on black radio, but when Clarence was in the business, 1246 01:03:01,694 --> 01:03:03,154 it was even worse 1247 01:03:03,237 --> 01:03:08,659 because none of these major advertisers would even consider advertising 1248 01:03:08,743 --> 01:03:09,952 with a black station. 1249 01:03:10,036 --> 01:03:12,789 Even McDonald's hadn't decided 1250 01:03:12,872 --> 01:03:15,500 that they were going to get into the black people business. 1251 01:03:17,126 --> 01:03:18,961 [George] Overtly, Clarence is doing well. 1252 01:03:20,254 --> 01:03:23,341 He has Sussex Records, which is very successful with Bill Withers. 1253 01:03:23,424 --> 01:03:25,176 He has KAGB radio station, 1254 01:03:25,843 --> 01:03:28,387 but it seems like he was overextended. 1255 01:03:28,888 --> 01:03:31,557 He bought that radio station. I hated that damn thing. 1256 01:03:31,641 --> 01:03:32,892 I thought it was a dump. 1257 01:03:32,975 --> 01:03:35,144 [Avant] Bill Withers did very well, 1258 01:03:35,353 --> 01:03:38,689 but, you know, you make money, and you sign all these other acts, 1259 01:03:38,773 --> 01:03:42,944 and they sell two copies, and... it doesn't mean shit. 1260 01:03:43,694 --> 01:03:45,571 [George] One thing about the independent labels 1261 01:03:45,655 --> 01:03:50,159 in the '70s is that you were at the mercy of your distributors, which meant 1262 01:03:50,243 --> 01:03:53,579 you weren't getting money for 3 months, no matter how many records you sold. 1263 01:03:55,039 --> 01:03:57,708 And you're still also getting bills from pressing plants, 1264 01:03:57,792 --> 01:04:00,711 and you're getting bills from people who make the labels, 1265 01:04:01,712 --> 01:04:04,006 and then you have the fact that he had this radio station, 1266 01:04:04,590 --> 01:04:08,135 and he's cross-collateralizing his money to try and keep both afloat. 1267 01:04:09,762 --> 01:04:11,430 [Avant] And all of a sudden... 1268 01:04:17,061 --> 01:04:17,937 you broke. 1269 01:04:19,230 --> 01:04:21,983 [George] One day, the IRS came into his office, 1270 01:04:22,275 --> 01:04:25,069 snatched everything from the records to the desk, 1271 01:04:25,945 --> 01:04:26,988 padlocked the joint, 1272 01:04:27,697 --> 01:04:29,448 and said, "You owe us money."  1273 01:04:29,532 --> 01:04:30,366 Boom. 1274 01:04:31,701 --> 01:04:32,577 It's all gone. 1275 01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,912 When we lost the radio station, 1276 01:04:34,996 --> 01:04:37,498 I think his regret was, "I didn't really listen to the people 1277 01:04:37,582 --> 01:04:38,666 that were trying to help me, 1278 01:04:38,749 --> 01:04:41,210 the people who knew how to run the radio station. 1279 01:04:41,294 --> 01:04:44,046 And I was too arrogant to listen." 1280 01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:46,966 You know, he did say-- He'll never say that, but he did to me. 1281 01:04:47,049 --> 01:04:51,637 I think it was probably the first big failure that he faced, 1282 01:04:51,721 --> 01:04:55,600 that he didn't see an immediate solution on the horizon. 1283 01:04:56,976 --> 01:05:00,396 [Avant] Bill and I had fights, but that's part of the game, man. 1284 01:05:01,939 --> 01:05:04,233 Arguments, not fights. I don't fight nobody. 1285 01:05:05,651 --> 01:05:08,070 Then there was the business part of it, you know? 1286 01:05:09,906 --> 01:05:12,533 No hard-- I understand, you dig? 1287 01:05:14,076 --> 01:05:15,077 But... 1288 01:05:15,161 --> 01:05:17,622 then it became time to move on, you know? 1289 01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:20,041 [soft piano playing] 1290 01:05:22,376 --> 01:05:23,544 [Avant] I'll never forget it. 1291 01:05:25,171 --> 01:05:26,297 Bill was like... 1292 01:05:30,051 --> 01:05:31,719 How do I put this? 1293 01:05:35,264 --> 01:05:37,141 I got very emotional when he left... 1294 01:05:40,061 --> 01:05:41,062 Uh... 1295 01:05:41,896 --> 01:05:43,022 I couldn't pay him. 1296 01:05:45,191 --> 01:05:48,903 [Jacqueline] With Bill Withers, you know, that was a heartbreaker. 1297 01:05:49,487 --> 01:05:52,198 My daughter was maybe three when she got to know him, 1298 01:05:52,573 --> 01:05:53,950 and she loved him. 1299 01:05:54,825 --> 01:05:56,827 But he decided to leave Sussex. 1300 01:05:57,411 --> 01:05:59,205 I had to explain that to her, too. 1301 01:06:00,748 --> 01:06:03,209 [Nicole] It was hard for my dad to let go. 1302 01:06:04,251 --> 01:06:09,173 He was getting very upset because I think he felt insignificant. 1303 01:06:11,467 --> 01:06:14,595 I remember my dad and I used to swim all the time. 1304 01:06:14,929 --> 01:06:17,890 I'd always get on his back. He'd be like the big whale, 1305 01:06:17,974 --> 01:06:20,101 and he'd swim me to the deep end, and we'd come back, 1306 01:06:20,184 --> 01:06:21,394 and then he'd watch me swim 1307 01:06:21,477 --> 01:06:24,438 and make sure my backstroke was good. You know, we always had a good time.  1308 01:06:24,522 --> 01:06:26,190 All of a sudden, I remember, just one day... 1309 01:06:26,273 --> 01:06:27,817 [snaps fingers] it stopped. 1310 01:06:30,820 --> 01:06:32,613 My mom said to me one day, 1311 01:06:33,114 --> 01:06:35,700 "You know, City National Bank may take our house." 1312 01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,869 I didn't know what that meant, "What are you talking about?" 1313 01:06:38,953 --> 01:06:43,499 "Well, you know, we're-- This is closing, Sussex is closing, Bill Withers--" 1314 01:06:43,582 --> 01:06:45,626 everything just-- Then we lost the radio station. 1315 01:06:45,710 --> 01:06:47,128 Everything crumbled at once. 1316 01:06:48,004 --> 01:06:49,672 [Avant] My house was in foreclosure. 1317 01:06:51,090 --> 01:06:52,925 I was gonna sell the house, 1318 01:06:53,009 --> 01:06:54,051 'cause I was broke 1319 01:06:54,135 --> 01:06:57,805 and I was gonna get the loan and then sell it eventually. 1320 01:06:58,264 --> 01:07:00,433 And Jackie said, "Why didn't you tell me?" And well, 1321 01:07:01,142 --> 01:07:02,560 "I didn't wanna tell you." 1322 01:07:02,643 --> 01:07:03,644 [chuckles] 1323 01:07:04,937 --> 01:07:05,771 [sighs] 1324 01:07:07,148 --> 01:07:10,943 Just a matter of time, things, I don't know. It's... 1325 01:07:11,027 --> 01:07:11,861 Um... 1326 01:07:13,237 --> 01:07:15,489 You don't leave. [chuckles] You don't leave. 1327 01:07:15,573 --> 01:07:17,366 Where are you going, anyway? And, you know. 1328 01:07:17,450 --> 01:07:21,495 So you're in this together, and you just, you know, wait it out. And, um... 1329 01:07:23,748 --> 01:07:25,124 But you have to face it. 1330 01:07:25,207 --> 01:07:27,460 You can't make believe it didn't happen. 1331 01:07:29,545 --> 01:07:31,464 [man] He had a lunch with me, 1332 01:07:31,756 --> 01:07:33,966 and he was in financial trouble, 1333 01:07:34,467 --> 01:07:37,011 told us he's going to have to fold the company, 1334 01:07:37,094 --> 01:07:40,097 and we proved to be "Here Comes Santa Claus." 1335 01:07:41,140 --> 01:07:43,017 And he was forever grateful 1336 01:07:43,684 --> 01:07:46,020 because it bailed him out of a hole that he... 1337 01:07:46,103 --> 01:07:48,439 possibly would lose everything he had. 1338 01:07:49,273 --> 01:07:52,568 [Moss] I was very connected to the man, 1339 01:07:53,027 --> 01:07:55,988 and I didn't want to see anything bad happen to him, you know. 1340 01:07:56,322 --> 01:07:58,699 Little help from this friend and that friend, and... 1341 01:07:58,866 --> 01:08:00,910 in time, we just pulled through. 1342 01:08:02,036 --> 01:08:04,121 [Moss] It's a long life in this game, you know. 1343 01:08:05,206 --> 01:08:06,707 You wanna keep your friends. 1344 01:08:07,458 --> 01:08:08,334 Very important. 1345 01:08:08,417 --> 01:08:10,836 And to know who your friends are, very important. 1346 01:08:12,254 --> 01:08:14,507 It's my friend. Shit, I have friends. 1347 01:08:14,590 --> 01:08:15,591 [chuckles] 1348 01:08:16,425 --> 01:08:17,843 [Adolph] I think Jackie 1349 01:08:17,927 --> 01:08:19,970 was the force that said to Clarence, 1350 01:08:21,055 --> 01:08:23,099 "When it comes to family, we can do this." 1351 01:08:27,561 --> 01:08:31,107 [Geffen] Since I've known Clarence for almost 50 years, 1352 01:08:31,524 --> 01:08:34,360 I've known all of his kids, you know, from the very beginning. 1353 01:08:34,944 --> 01:08:36,278 Clarence was a great dad. 1354 01:08:36,570 --> 01:08:37,571 He was a great husband. 1355 01:08:38,614 --> 01:08:40,950 [Foxx] It feels good to see Clarence and his wife. 1356 01:08:41,492 --> 01:08:43,994 You know, these young cats, man, in this business. 1357 01:08:44,537 --> 01:08:46,163 They look so amazing, 1358 01:08:46,747 --> 01:08:49,542 and they still look like they got wedding cake on their feet. 1359 01:08:50,334 --> 01:08:53,087 Like they just walked off of a soul wedding cake. 1360 01:08:53,629 --> 01:08:58,050 Really, he's been a mentor and someone-- and not just in business. 1361 01:08:58,759 --> 01:08:59,677 In life. 1362 01:09:00,386 --> 01:09:03,639 He actually probably saved my life from one of the most... 1363 01:09:03,722 --> 01:09:05,975 It would've been one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. 1364 01:09:06,058 --> 01:09:09,270 I was thinking about doing something different in my marriage. 1365 01:09:09,353 --> 01:09:11,355 Like... ending it, basically. 1366 01:09:12,481 --> 01:09:13,983 And I called Clarence, 1367 01:09:14,316 --> 01:09:16,068 and he's like, "What's going on?" 1368 01:09:16,152 --> 01:09:18,946 I say, "Hey, man. You know, I don't think... 1369 01:09:20,072 --> 01:09:21,615 I think I'mma get a divorce." 1370 01:09:22,241 --> 01:09:24,285 And he says, "A what?!" 1371 01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:28,497 I says, "Divorce." And, you know, 1372 01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:32,376 when you talking to another guy, you think that he's-- it's guy talk. 1373 01:09:32,877 --> 01:09:35,045 "I know what you're going through. This, this, and this. 1374 01:09:35,129 --> 01:09:37,756 You'll be all right." That's what I was expecting. 1375 01:09:38,549 --> 01:09:39,925 What I got was... 1376 01:09:40,926 --> 01:09:45,222 "God damn it! God damn it, Jon! What is wrong with you?! 1377 01:09:45,723 --> 01:09:46,765 You're different! 1378 01:09:47,141 --> 01:09:49,643 You're not supposed to be like those other guys!" 1379 01:09:50,019 --> 01:09:53,063 And, I mean, he cussed me up one side and down the other. 1380 01:09:53,731 --> 01:09:55,733 And he said, "Get your shit together!" 1381 01:09:55,816 --> 01:09:58,986 And he started crying on the phone. 1382 01:09:59,904 --> 01:10:01,572 And he's like, "I'm hanging up!" 1383 01:10:01,822 --> 01:10:02,698 And he hung up.  1384 01:10:03,657 --> 01:10:06,535 And... it blew me away 1385 01:10:06,619 --> 01:10:08,787 'cause that was the total opposite... 1386 01:10:09,288 --> 01:10:10,122 um... 1387 01:10:10,998 --> 01:10:12,416 reaction that I expected, 1388 01:10:13,250 --> 01:10:15,127 and he made me think. 1389 01:10:16,337 --> 01:10:17,713 And about a week later, 1390 01:10:17,796 --> 01:10:19,757 we were at breakfast, and he was like, 1391 01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,217 "So, how's it going, kid?" 1392 01:10:21,342 --> 01:10:23,677 And I'm telling him, I was like, "You know, 1393 01:10:23,886 --> 01:10:25,638 it just feels like it's all falling apart." 1394 01:10:26,472 --> 01:10:28,641 And it just... flowed out of me. 1395 01:10:29,433 --> 01:10:32,686 And, um, he grabbed my hand, and said, "You gonna be all right, kid. 1396 01:10:32,770 --> 01:10:36,523 Just take a step back and you deal with one thing at a time." 1397 01:10:37,524 --> 01:10:39,276 Big Jon's like my son, man.  1398 01:10:39,818 --> 01:10:41,028 He's a good guy. 1399 01:10:41,111 --> 01:10:44,073 He checked me, like a father would check his son. 1400 01:10:44,156 --> 01:10:48,160 Saved my marriage, saved my life, and humbled me very quickly. 1401 01:10:49,370 --> 01:10:50,788 My wife got pregnant, 1402 01:10:50,871 --> 01:10:54,917 and then it was a bigger surprise that we were having twins. 1403 01:10:55,501 --> 01:10:57,294 So, when the kids were born, 1404 01:10:58,545 --> 01:10:59,380 he called me. 1405 01:11:01,340 --> 01:11:03,175 "The first one I named Clarence. 1406 01:11:04,051 --> 01:11:06,053 The second one I named--" I said, "Come on, man." 1407 01:11:06,136 --> 01:11:08,097 He said, "No, it's too late. His name is Clarence." 1408 01:11:09,765 --> 01:11:12,142 He showed me a black family structure. 1409 01:11:12,226 --> 01:11:14,979 He showed me a black businessman. 1410 01:11:15,354 --> 01:11:18,190 He showed me how women are supposed to be treated, 1411 01:11:18,274 --> 01:11:20,567 how you juggle a career and family. 1412 01:11:21,944 --> 01:11:25,698 I think Clarence Avant has one of the biggest hearts in the universe. 1413 01:11:25,781 --> 01:11:29,118 I think he also goes to great lengths to protect his heart, 1414 01:11:29,201 --> 01:11:31,245 and I don't think he lets a lot of people in. 1415 01:11:31,328 --> 01:11:35,749 He has countless acquaintances, friends, associates, 1416 01:11:35,833 --> 01:11:39,795 but very few people that I think, as he would say, he has inside. 1417 01:11:39,878 --> 01:11:42,214 But Quincy Jones is one of those people. 1418 01:11:42,965 --> 01:11:45,342 [Jones] I know him, man. That's why I love him. 1419 01:11:46,427 --> 01:11:47,886 I've loved him a long time. 1420 01:11:47,970 --> 01:11:49,430 Eternally, man. I love him. 1421 01:11:49,513 --> 01:11:52,016 Quincy is very, um... 1422 01:11:52,808 --> 01:11:55,853 He loves to share his emotions. He's a very intimate person, 1423 01:11:55,936 --> 01:11:57,354 and my father is not.  1424 01:11:57,604 --> 01:11:59,565 But it's very good for my father. 1425 01:12:00,566 --> 01:12:02,568 [interviewer] Ever give Clarence relationship advice? 1426 01:12:02,651 --> 01:12:04,361 -Relationship advice? -[interviewer] Mm-hmm. 1427 01:12:04,445 --> 01:12:06,572 No, but I've asked him to stop putting ice 1428 01:12:06,655 --> 01:12:09,908 in my Château Pétrus wine. 1429 01:12:09,992 --> 01:12:11,618 [laughs] 1430 01:12:11,702 --> 01:12:12,536 Yeah, I do. 1431 01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:14,371 Just trying to get on my nerves. 1432 01:12:14,455 --> 01:12:16,332 -[Avant] I swear to God. -It's all he's trying to do. 1433 01:12:17,249 --> 01:12:18,667 When you see Clarence and Quincy, 1434 01:12:18,751 --> 01:12:21,253 it reminds you of whoever you hang out with, your homie. 1435 01:12:21,628 --> 01:12:24,089 Like, no matter they age, 1436 01:12:24,423 --> 01:12:26,050 they still busting each other's balls. 1437 01:12:26,133 --> 01:12:28,969 Oh, wine is just like Pepsi-Cola to me. 1438 01:12:29,887 --> 01:12:32,181 -Pepsi-Cola, man? -[Avant] You just put ice in it to... 1439 01:12:32,264 --> 01:12:33,098 Get outta here, man. 1440 01:12:33,182 --> 01:12:34,892 It's like ice water. Same shit. 1441 01:12:34,975 --> 01:12:36,727 You have to be from Climax to think like that. 1442 01:12:36,810 --> 01:12:38,520 [laughing] 1443 01:12:41,273 --> 01:12:43,484 [man] 1982... 1444 01:12:44,151 --> 01:12:46,278 I was then a young lawyer, 1445 01:12:46,362 --> 01:12:47,696 fresh out of law school, 1446 01:12:47,780 --> 01:12:49,907 working at CBS Records in the law department. 1447 01:12:50,741 --> 01:12:52,743 Universal Pictures released a film 1448 01:12:52,826 --> 01:12:54,787 called E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, 1449 01:12:55,371 --> 01:12:57,706 which became one of the most successful films 1450 01:12:57,790 --> 01:12:58,832 of all time. 1451 01:12:59,875 --> 01:13:01,043 Universal decided 1452 01:13:01,126 --> 01:13:05,798 that they would put out a storybook box set album, 1453 01:13:05,881 --> 01:13:08,425 to be produced by Quincy Jones, 1454 01:13:09,009 --> 01:13:11,220 executive produced by Steven Spielberg, 1455 01:13:11,303 --> 01:13:13,472 narrated by Michael Jackson. 1456 01:13:14,473 --> 01:13:18,352 The only problem was Michael Jackson wasn't signed to Universal. 1457 01:13:18,435 --> 01:13:20,771 Michael Jackson was signed to CBS. 1458 01:13:21,522 --> 01:13:23,482 Michael did something. Quincy knows. 1459 01:13:24,233 --> 01:13:26,402 He made a whole CD... 1460 01:13:27,027 --> 01:13:28,445 and didn't get permission. 1461 01:13:28,612 --> 01:13:31,740 No one had asked permission from CBS, 1462 01:13:32,533 --> 01:13:35,494 and then head of CBS was a man named Walter Yetnikoff. 1463 01:13:35,577 --> 01:13:39,790 He viewed this as an act of betrayal and a declaration of war. 1464 01:13:41,792 --> 01:13:44,002 He sued Universal, 1465 01:13:44,086 --> 01:13:48,215 got a temporary restraining order to stop the album, um, 1466 01:13:48,465 --> 01:13:51,927 and all of us end up in a big conference room. 1467 01:13:53,137 --> 01:13:56,223 Universal has its litigators at the meeting. 1468 01:13:56,306 --> 01:13:58,517 Sony has its litigators at the meeting. 1469 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:00,436 Michael Jackson's representatives are there. 1470 01:14:00,519 --> 01:14:02,646 Steven Spielberg's representatives, 1471 01:14:02,729 --> 01:14:04,440 Quincy Jones' representatives... 1472 01:14:04,731 --> 01:14:07,276 And in the middle of this big conference room 1473 01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:08,694 is Clarence Avant. 1474 01:14:11,155 --> 01:14:15,242 And I turn to the general manager of CBS Records, and I say, 1475 01:14:15,325 --> 01:14:17,703 "This Clarence Avant, what is he doing here? 1476 01:14:17,786 --> 01:14:18,996 Who does he represent?" 1477 01:14:19,496 --> 01:14:21,957 Without missing a beat, he said, 1478 01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,043 "Clarence? Clarence represents everyone here." 1479 01:14:25,586 --> 01:14:28,630 So, I met with them. 1480 01:14:29,631 --> 01:14:30,674 Worked it out. 1481 01:14:31,633 --> 01:14:32,885 The rest is history. 1482 01:14:32,968 --> 01:14:35,679 [E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial theme plays] 1483 01:14:38,932 --> 01:14:43,103 He was able to maneuver and resolve so many issues. 1484 01:14:43,187 --> 01:14:46,023 It was crazy! I'm like, "How was this guy doing it?" 1485 01:14:46,106 --> 01:14:48,150 But he was that go-to guy. 1486 01:14:49,359 --> 01:14:52,196 Michael wanted to thank my dad for his help with E.T., 1487 01:14:52,279 --> 01:14:53,739 so a few years later, 1488 01:14:53,822 --> 01:14:56,158 they asked him to promote the Bad tour. 1489 01:14:56,575 --> 01:14:58,202 [Avant] Michael wanted me to do his tour 1490 01:14:58,911 --> 01:14:59,912 with just him. 1491 01:15:00,496 --> 01:15:01,747 And I turned Michael down. 1492 01:15:01,830 --> 01:15:03,707 I said, "I'm not a fucking promoter." 1493 01:15:04,625 --> 01:15:07,503 [man] I walked into his office one time, and he started saying, 1494 01:15:07,586 --> 01:15:10,881 "Man, you know, Quincy put me down with Michael. 1495 01:15:10,964 --> 01:15:12,674 They want me to do some tour." 1496 01:15:13,926 --> 01:15:15,260 I said, "The Bad tour?" 1497 01:15:16,094 --> 01:15:17,054 "Yeah, I guess." 1498 01:15:19,014 --> 01:15:21,225 "Is that a problem?" [chuckle] 1499 01:15:21,308 --> 01:15:22,976 You know, I'm thinking to myself, 1500 01:15:23,060 --> 01:15:24,520 "What a great opportunity!" 1501 01:15:24,603 --> 01:15:27,022 And he said, "I don't know what to do with this." 1502 01:15:27,105 --> 01:15:29,316 So, you know, I said, "There's one person 1503 01:15:29,942 --> 01:15:32,277 who I know, who I've dealt with, 1504 01:15:32,903 --> 01:15:39,201 who actually knows all the ins and outs of every building that is important 1505 01:15:39,284 --> 01:15:41,078 for this tour in America, 1506 01:15:41,828 --> 01:15:43,080 And that's Al Haymon." 1507 01:15:44,289 --> 01:15:48,043 So we brought in Al, and that completely locked it down. 1508 01:15:48,627 --> 01:15:49,545 [news reporter] Inside the arena, 1509 01:15:49,628 --> 01:15:52,923 one of the biggest and most elaborate stage sets ever built, 1510 01:15:53,006 --> 01:15:54,675 erected in just four days. 1511 01:15:54,758 --> 01:15:56,802 Ninety thousand packed the park, 1512 01:15:56,885 --> 01:16:00,097 ten thousand more than for Springsteen, Genesis, or Madonna, 1513 01:16:00,180 --> 01:16:01,640 and they weren't disappointed. 1514 01:16:01,723 --> 01:16:04,768 ♪ Bringing brighter days ♪ 1515 01:16:04,851 --> 01:16:07,646 ♪ They're all in line waiting for you ♪ 1516 01:16:07,729 --> 01:16:11,775 ♪ So know the truth You're just another part of me ♪ 1517 01:16:11,858 --> 01:16:14,778 [Lombard] Al could do everything that was required 1518 01:16:14,861 --> 01:16:17,531 of the position they had put Clarence in. 1519 01:16:17,614 --> 01:16:21,076 Clarence looked upon Al as a high-achieving son. 1520 01:16:22,578 --> 01:16:24,997 You know, like, "This is one of my mentees, 1521 01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:26,957 and look at what he does." 1522 01:16:27,749 --> 01:16:28,792 [Alex] Everyone was asking, 1523 01:16:28,875 --> 01:16:32,713 "Are you gonna be in the record industry like your father, follow his footsteps?" 1524 01:16:32,796 --> 01:16:37,426 It's... I think Al Haymon taught me, those are some... deep, deep shoes. 1525 01:16:38,552 --> 01:16:41,346 It's too much. It was too much pressure. 1526 01:16:43,015 --> 01:16:45,684 [George] In the wake of the fall of Sussex Records, 1527 01:16:45,892 --> 01:16:47,311 Clarence dusts himself off... 1528 01:16:48,353 --> 01:16:49,605 ...and starts another label. 1529 01:16:49,938 --> 01:16:51,481 [Adolph] Taboo, you know, the forbidden. 1530 01:16:51,565 --> 01:16:54,276 That which is out of reach, that which you shouldn't have. 1531 01:16:54,359 --> 01:16:56,903 The unorthodox, the unexpected, the surprise. 1532 01:16:57,112 --> 01:16:57,946 Classic Clarence. 1533 01:16:58,030 --> 01:17:01,116 And as they join us to do their latest single on the Tabu label, 1534 01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:03,994 an absolute smash entitled "Take Your Time," 1535 01:17:04,119 --> 01:17:05,912 let's welcome from Atlanta, Georgia, 1536 01:17:05,996 --> 01:17:08,248 the SOS Band. 1537 01:17:08,332 --> 01:17:10,334 -[applause] -["Take Your Time" plays] 1538 01:17:16,465 --> 01:17:19,051 [woman] The first time I ever heard the name Clarence Avant, 1539 01:17:20,344 --> 01:17:22,638 it was the SOS Band's... 1540 01:17:22,721 --> 01:17:25,307 ♪ Baby, we can do it Take your time ♪ 1541 01:17:25,390 --> 01:17:28,352 ♪ Do it right We can do it, baby ♪ 1542 01:17:28,435 --> 01:17:30,354 ♪ Do it tonight ♪ 1543 01:17:30,437 --> 01:17:34,274 ♪ Baby, we can do it Take the time, do it right ♪ 1544 01:17:34,358 --> 01:17:37,778 ♪ We can do it, baby Do it tonight ♪ 1545 01:17:37,861 --> 01:17:39,655 [George] The '80s brings in technology, 1546 01:17:40,572 --> 01:17:44,368 so, literally, the texture of the music sonically changes. 1547 01:17:44,451 --> 01:17:45,786 The LinnDrum, 1548 01:17:45,869 --> 01:17:48,830 808, all kinds of synthesized keyboards. 1549 01:17:48,914 --> 01:17:52,834 All this music that in 1972 was made by human beings alone 1550 01:17:52,918 --> 01:17:55,462 is now made with computers of various kinds. 1551 01:17:56,588 --> 01:17:59,257 The producer now didn't need a house band. 1552 01:17:59,341 --> 01:18:01,468 And it becomes much more, even more so, 1553 01:18:01,551 --> 01:18:04,012 about the masterminds of the music. 1554 01:18:04,096 --> 01:18:07,015 And it tends to be one- or two-man teams. 1555 01:18:07,974 --> 01:18:12,187 [woman] I was managing these guys, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, 1556 01:18:12,562 --> 01:18:16,108 and Clarence was looking for someone to produce SOS Band. 1557 01:18:16,191 --> 01:18:17,901 I told him, "I've got these guys. You know, 1558 01:18:17,984 --> 01:18:21,071 they're with The Time, you know, but they're producers, you know. 1559 01:18:21,154 --> 01:18:23,156 They want to do some other things outside of Prince." 1560 01:18:23,740 --> 01:18:26,451 He saw that these guys had talent. 1561 01:18:26,535 --> 01:18:29,538 He gave them the shot, the first real shot. 1562 01:18:30,122 --> 01:18:32,582 [man] And so we went in, and he said, 1563 01:18:32,666 --> 01:18:34,126 "You'll be producing some songs." 1564 01:18:35,168 --> 01:18:36,837 We're like, "Whoa!"  1565 01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:40,590 Our then manager/agent, he asked her to leave. 1566 01:18:41,591 --> 01:18:46,012 And he said, "Now, I got a problem with what you're asking for." 1567 01:18:47,180 --> 01:18:50,517 We're like, "Oh, no, Mr. Avant. Whatever you need,  1568 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:54,229 if we've asked for too much, you know, we can do it for less or whatever." 1569 01:18:54,396 --> 01:18:55,480 He said, "No.  1570 01:18:56,398 --> 01:18:57,816 She didn't ask for enough. 1571 01:18:58,734 --> 01:19:00,318 You can't do a record on that. 1572 01:19:00,402 --> 01:19:02,362 You need some money for this, some money for that, 1573 01:19:02,446 --> 01:19:05,365 you need some money for this." You know, and we were like... 1574 01:19:06,241 --> 01:19:08,452 I-- At that point in my life, 1575 01:19:09,202 --> 01:19:12,080 as a black man, I had never met an honorable man 1576 01:19:12,164 --> 01:19:15,083 who would give you more than you asked for... 1577 01:19:15,917 --> 01:19:18,044 and enough that you needed. 1578 01:19:18,128 --> 01:19:20,297 That told you everything you needed to know about him, 1579 01:19:20,380 --> 01:19:22,132 -right in that first meeting. -Yes. 1580 01:19:22,215 --> 01:19:24,342 ♪ People always talking about ♪ 1581 01:19:26,219 --> 01:19:27,846 ♪ Your reputation ♪ 1582 01:19:31,057 --> 01:19:34,561 ♪ I don't care about your other girls ♪ 1583 01:19:34,644 --> 01:19:36,480 ♪ Just be good to me ♪ 1584 01:19:37,773 --> 01:19:39,858 [Don Cornelius] How does it feel to have 1585 01:19:39,941 --> 01:19:42,694 the biggest record on the planet here, folks? Anybody wanna-- 1586 01:19:42,778 --> 01:19:44,154 Great! 1587 01:19:45,197 --> 01:19:48,241 We give all the thanks to Allah, and Jimmy, and Terry, 1588 01:19:48,325 --> 01:19:49,993 which came in the nick of time. 1589 01:19:50,076 --> 01:19:54,247 [Avant] And so, Tabu became alive after Jimmy and Terry got involved. 1590 01:19:54,331 --> 01:19:56,583 If you wanted Jam and Lewis to produce you, 1591 01:19:56,666 --> 01:19:58,710 they had to do at least five tracks. 1592 01:19:58,794 --> 01:20:02,047 You got five songs, five more copyrights. 1593 01:20:02,130 --> 01:20:04,174 Clarence spent a lot of time with them, 1594 01:20:04,466 --> 01:20:07,093 schooling them, teaching them the business. 1595 01:20:08,804 --> 01:20:10,764 [Harrell] He had a flurry of hit records. 1596 01:20:10,847 --> 01:20:12,641 Uh, he had the SOS Band. 1597 01:20:12,724 --> 01:20:15,519 He had Cherrelle. What was Cherrelle's song? 1598 01:20:16,061 --> 01:20:18,772 ♪ I didn't mean to turn you on ♪ 1599 01:20:18,939 --> 01:20:21,107 ♪ Didn't mean to turn you on! ♪ 1600 01:20:21,191 --> 01:20:23,819 [exclaims, laughs] 1601 01:20:24,402 --> 01:20:25,654 [Lewis] Then one day, 1602 01:20:25,862 --> 01:20:28,740 we brought Alexander O'Neal into the studio 1603 01:20:28,824 --> 01:20:30,325 and sent Clarence the tracks. 1604 01:20:30,867 --> 01:20:31,785 [Jam] He said... 1605 01:20:32,244 --> 01:20:34,746 "This motherfucker you sent me, what's that motherfucker's name?" 1606 01:20:35,205 --> 01:20:36,456 I said, "Alexander O'Neal." 1607 01:20:36,540 --> 01:20:38,083 Who is he? 1608 01:20:38,166 --> 01:20:41,127 "He Irish or something?" And we said, "No, he's black, Clarence." 1609 01:20:41,211 --> 01:20:43,797 [stammers] "O'Neal! What kind of name is that for a black man? Huh? 1610 01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:45,382 Yeah, well, have him come on out." 1611 01:20:45,465 --> 01:20:47,133 -Right. -You know? 1612 01:20:47,717 --> 01:20:50,053 ♪ There's never any question ♪ 1613 01:20:50,178 --> 01:20:51,221 ♪ Uh-uh ♪ 1614 01:20:51,346 --> 01:20:54,182 ♪ You will be my Saturday love ♪ 1615 01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:57,227 [as O'Neal] ♪ There's never any question! ♪ 1616 01:20:57,310 --> 01:20:58,436 I'm like, how did he-- 1617 01:20:58,979 --> 01:21:00,856 He said "querstion." I love that. 1618 01:21:01,189 --> 01:21:02,524 ♪ There's never any...♪ 1619 01:21:02,607 --> 01:21:04,776 -♪ Question ♪ -♪ Uh-uh ♪ 1620 01:21:04,901 --> 01:21:08,238 -♪ You will be my Saturday love!♪ -♪ You can be my Saturday, Sunday, Mon-- ♪ 1621 01:21:08,321 --> 01:21:09,948 ♪ Sunday Monday Tuesday... ♪ 1622 01:21:10,031 --> 01:21:10,907 [Cherrelle] We knew 1623 01:21:10,991 --> 01:21:15,370 that all we wanted to do was make our godfather happy. 1624 01:21:16,121 --> 01:21:18,248 ♪ Never on Sunday ♪ 1625 01:21:18,331 --> 01:21:20,250 ♪ Monday's too soon ♪ 1626 01:21:20,333 --> 01:21:23,587 [Harrell] All these records were records I was partying hard to. 1627 01:21:23,670 --> 01:21:26,172 Dancing my ass off to in the clubs, so... 1628 01:21:26,965 --> 01:21:31,011 in my mind, he was partial man, partial god in terms of tastemaker. 1629 01:21:31,469 --> 01:21:33,805 Clarence managing, uh, uh... 1630 01:21:33,889 --> 01:21:36,892 Jimmy and Terry helped make the Janet album. 1631 01:21:40,020 --> 01:21:41,354 What're you doing? You're working! 1632 01:21:41,438 --> 01:21:45,191 Not anymore, Lou. I'm gonna be a big star! 1633 01:21:46,651 --> 01:21:48,987 [Moss] Janet was signed as a 15-year-old. 1634 01:21:49,738 --> 01:21:51,740 She had made a couple of records with her father. 1635 01:21:51,823 --> 01:21:54,784 ♪ Come give your love to me ♪ 1636 01:21:54,868 --> 01:21:57,662 [Moss] Nobody knew what to do with her, nobody was listening. 1637 01:21:57,746 --> 01:22:01,875 And I think what Clarence's real gift was, is finding people who had ears. 1638 01:22:02,334 --> 01:22:04,294 [Nicole] My father said, "Wait a minute! 1639 01:22:04,377 --> 01:22:06,630 I have these two young guys from Minneapolis. 1640 01:22:06,713 --> 01:22:07,839 They worked on SOS. 1641 01:22:07,923 --> 01:22:10,675 They gave me a couple hits. They went to number one, 1642 01:22:10,759 --> 01:22:12,052 and they're living in LA. 1643 01:22:12,636 --> 01:22:14,638 We should just put them together." 1644 01:22:17,182 --> 01:22:18,183 [Janet Jackson] Terry! 1645 01:22:18,892 --> 01:22:20,185 Break it down! 1646 01:22:21,394 --> 01:22:22,270 Right here! 1647 01:22:25,899 --> 01:22:26,816 Jimmy Jam! 1648 01:22:34,366 --> 01:22:37,410 Very special, one man's name that... 1649 01:22:38,536 --> 01:22:41,373 means the world to us. He means the world to us. 1650 01:22:41,456 --> 01:22:43,667 A gentleman named Mr. Clarence Avant. 1651 01:22:43,750 --> 01:22:45,627 [applause] 1652 01:22:45,710 --> 01:22:48,046 [Nicole] And I remember after the Control album-- 1653 01:22:48,672 --> 01:22:49,839 [Lewis] Clarence! 1654 01:22:49,923 --> 01:22:51,132 The phone was ringing more. 1655 01:22:51,216 --> 01:22:53,385 People were always at the house on a Sunday. 1656 01:22:53,468 --> 01:22:56,304 It didn't matter who it was. One day I'd walk in, it's Bobby Brown, 1657 01:22:56,388 --> 01:22:58,014 or Whitney Houston. Everybody was coming.  1658 01:22:58,098 --> 01:22:59,891 Everybody just started flooding the house. 1659 01:22:59,975 --> 01:23:01,184 Questions, questions. 1660 01:23:01,267 --> 01:23:04,020 "Can you help me with this deal?" Or, "Can you--" It just happened. 1661 01:23:09,025 --> 01:23:10,527 [Azoff] In 1983, 1662 01:23:10,819 --> 01:23:15,031 I went to run a place that was then called MCA Records. 1663 01:23:15,115 --> 01:23:17,242 I probably had the job maybe a week, 1664 01:23:17,325 --> 01:23:19,911 and I get a call from our chairman, Lew Wasserman, 1665 01:23:19,995 --> 01:23:20,996 and he says, 1666 01:23:21,079 --> 01:23:23,498 "Clarence Avant would like to have lunch with you." 1667 01:23:24,082 --> 01:23:26,668 And I remember we went to the Chinese restaurant up at the lot, 1668 01:23:26,751 --> 01:23:28,461 and we're sitting there talking, and he said, 1669 01:23:28,545 --> 01:23:29,921 "Would you like any help 1670 01:23:31,089 --> 01:23:34,050 putting MCA into the black music business?" 1671 01:23:34,676 --> 01:23:36,553 And I said, "Yeah, I really would." 1672 01:23:36,636 --> 01:23:39,431 He says, "That's good, 'cause I'm gonna tell you what to do anyway." 1673 01:23:39,514 --> 01:23:41,307 [all laughing] 1674 01:23:41,933 --> 01:23:45,145 And that's what I say about Clarence: he was never looking for permission. 1675 01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:49,274 Which is still an unusual thing in the culture, you know, 1676 01:23:49,357 --> 01:23:52,068 the idea of a black voice being heard the way it needed to be heard. 1677 01:23:54,779 --> 01:23:57,157 [George] One of the things that's magical or interesting to me 1678 01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:58,324 about Clarence's career 1679 01:23:58,408 --> 01:24:00,535 is that there's all this history in the '70s 1680 01:24:00,618 --> 01:24:02,912 of him having a record company and stuff. 1681 01:24:02,996 --> 01:24:05,540 When I encounter him as a young writer in the '80s, 1682 01:24:05,623 --> 01:24:07,459 it feels like he's transitioned to another place 1683 01:24:07,542 --> 01:24:09,794 in terms of what his role is in the industry. 1684 01:24:11,713 --> 01:24:14,758 [Rev. Sharpton] Clarence was the guy that could place you. 1685 01:24:14,841 --> 01:24:19,554 RCA, Polydor, CBS Records, Epic, all that. 1686 01:24:19,637 --> 01:24:22,807 And I begin to realize that it wasn't simply that he was having 1687 01:24:22,891 --> 01:24:25,310 young black executives be vetted 1688 01:24:25,894 --> 01:24:27,187 for, like, white executives. 1689 01:24:28,605 --> 01:24:30,815 It was that the white executives were listening to him. 1690 01:24:31,524 --> 01:24:34,319 [Azoff] He staffed our entire black music label. 1691 01:24:34,819 --> 01:24:37,739 I, right then, figured out, he's the godfather. 1692 01:24:40,408 --> 01:24:42,994 [Horowitz] All of us would go to him from time to time 1693 01:24:43,078 --> 01:24:45,538 to ask about how to get someone that we wanted, 1694 01:24:45,622 --> 01:24:48,416 how to make sure we didn't lose someone that we wanted to keep. 1695 01:24:48,500 --> 01:24:52,128 Because, you see, Clarence knows everybody. 1696 01:24:54,923 --> 01:24:56,341 You know, he knows everybody. 1697 01:24:57,759 --> 01:24:59,594 [Rev. Sharpton] And everybody could trust him. 1698 01:24:59,677 --> 01:25:02,097 Say, well, if Clarence said it, 1699 01:25:02,180 --> 01:25:05,016 it must be all right, 'cause Clarence is not going to get you 1700 01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:07,227 out there on something that's gonna backfire. 1701 01:25:07,310 --> 01:25:08,978 What's extraordinary about him is... 1702 01:25:09,938 --> 01:25:13,233 he-- he's got this instinct on young people, young executives. 1703 01:25:13,316 --> 01:25:17,195 He's been so involved in the careers of so many young people, 1704 01:25:17,278 --> 01:25:19,155 not just in the entertainment industry,  1705 01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:20,949 but just throughout. 1706 01:25:21,032 --> 01:25:22,033 He's always a person 1707 01:25:22,117 --> 01:25:24,536 that people say, "You should talk to Clarence about that." 1708 01:25:24,619 --> 01:25:28,248 Every deal I had, every contract I got as a record executive, 1709 01:25:28,915 --> 01:25:30,458 I would send it to Clarence. 1710 01:25:30,542 --> 01:25:32,252 What to ask for, what not to ask for,  1711 01:25:32,335 --> 01:25:34,462 what to push back on, what not to push back on. 1712 01:25:34,963 --> 01:25:38,633 Usually it was about, for him, it was... money. 1713 01:25:39,217 --> 01:25:40,343 What's the money like? 1714 01:25:40,426 --> 01:25:43,638 And was it on par with what white executives were getting? 1715 01:25:43,721 --> 01:25:46,683 If he thought it was right for you, it was about the right thing for you. 1716 01:25:47,267 --> 01:25:49,686 I'd gone from Berry Gordy's pet assistant-- 1717 01:25:49,769 --> 01:25:53,148 I took care of his animals-- up to his assistant, and on and on. 1718 01:25:53,231 --> 01:25:55,608 And I'd hit this kind of ceiling with the company, 1719 01:25:55,692 --> 01:25:57,443 and that's when I heard from Clarence. 1720 01:25:58,403 --> 01:26:02,407 He helped me construct a deal at Warner Brothers Pictures 1721 01:26:02,490 --> 01:26:04,993 that allowed me to develop television and film projects, 1722 01:26:05,076 --> 01:26:07,203 and ultimately, to take some of those things to Quincy, 1723 01:26:07,287 --> 01:26:08,580 which we got made. 1724 01:26:09,789 --> 01:26:12,876 [Geffen] If you wanted to get a job in Hollywood, 1725 01:26:12,959 --> 01:26:16,796 in the record business, or as an actor, or with the studios, 1726 01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,048 Clarence was the guy you went to. 1727 01:26:19,132 --> 01:26:21,259 And Clarence was the guy that saw that you... 1728 01:26:21,843 --> 01:26:24,012 were taken care of, that you weren't, uh... 1729 01:26:25,430 --> 01:26:26,431 shortchanged. 1730 01:26:26,514 --> 01:26:29,350 You know, we're in a business with a bunch of assholes. 1731 01:26:29,434 --> 01:26:30,685 You got five of 'em sitting here. 1732 01:26:30,768 --> 01:26:32,437 [all laughing] 1733 01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,981 You have to understand something: when you walk into this town, 1734 01:26:35,064 --> 01:26:36,649 you are green. 1735 01:26:37,358 --> 01:26:40,320 You have no concept-- You know the music business, 1736 01:26:40,737 --> 01:26:42,906 but you don't know the business of music. 1737 01:26:43,198 --> 01:26:46,159 Making your money is the creative side. 1738 01:26:47,327 --> 01:26:49,996 Keeping your money is the Clarence side. 1739 01:26:50,705 --> 01:26:51,956 I'mma give it to you raw. 1740 01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:55,043 Clarence makes sure that you don't get fucked. 1741 01:26:56,127 --> 01:26:58,588 Straight up, there's a lot of fuckin' going on 1742 01:26:58,671 --> 01:27:00,423 in the entertainment industry, 1743 01:27:00,590 --> 01:27:04,928 and if you are important to the overall greater good, 1744 01:27:05,011 --> 01:27:07,513 he's gonna step in like Super Black Man. 1745 01:27:08,056 --> 01:27:09,432 When we went to meet him, 1746 01:27:09,515 --> 01:27:10,808 we also knew that... 1747 01:27:11,684 --> 01:27:14,062 you know, he handled Jimmy and Terry. 1748 01:27:14,938 --> 01:27:17,899 So, we needed to know him because... 1749 01:27:17,982 --> 01:27:20,526 -we wanted to be Jimmy and Terry. -[Reid] Yeah. 1750 01:27:20,610 --> 01:27:22,487 [Babyface] You know, we wanted to follow in their footsteps. 1751 01:27:22,570 --> 01:27:24,906 -[Reid] Exactly. -[Babyface] And he was the gatekeeper. 1752 01:27:25,531 --> 01:27:27,659 [Jam] I remember running into L.A. Reid and Babyface. 1753 01:27:27,742 --> 01:27:28,618 And I remember 1754 01:27:28,701 --> 01:27:31,412 people thought we were in competition with each other, 1755 01:27:31,496 --> 01:27:33,164 and we'd never even met the brothers before. 1756 01:27:33,248 --> 01:27:34,457 But we met them, and L.A. said, 1757 01:27:34,540 --> 01:27:36,417 "Hey, can you introduce me to Clarence Avant?" 1758 01:27:36,501 --> 01:27:39,254 And I said, "Yeah. Absolutely, we can." 1759 01:27:39,337 --> 01:27:41,506 First, let's just talk about hearing about Babyface, 1760 01:27:41,589 --> 01:27:43,967 'cause I was trying to sing. I was in college, 1761 01:27:44,050 --> 01:27:46,970 and one of my boys called me. He said, "Man, give it up." "What?" 1762 01:27:47,053 --> 01:27:48,471 "You ain't heard of Babyface, dawg?" 1763 01:27:48,554 --> 01:27:50,348 He was terrible. "Dawg. Look here, dawg." 1764 01:27:50,431 --> 01:27:53,935 I didn't put two and two together. Babyface came from The Deele. 1765 01:27:54,018 --> 01:27:58,690 ♪ I want to be with you Wherever, ever you are ♪ 1766 01:27:58,773 --> 01:28:00,775 ♪ I only think of you ♪ 1767 01:28:01,401 --> 01:28:03,528 ♪ On two occasions ♪ 1768 01:28:04,696 --> 01:28:07,490 ♪ That's day and night ♪ 1769 01:28:07,991 --> 01:28:10,660 ♪ I go for broke ♪ 1770 01:28:10,743 --> 01:28:12,578 When I heard that shit-- 1771 01:28:12,662 --> 01:28:14,414 ♪ I go for broke ♪ 1772 01:28:14,497 --> 01:28:16,165 When I heard the motherfucker say... 1773 01:28:16,249 --> 01:28:18,501 ♪ I go for broke ♪ 1774 01:28:18,584 --> 01:28:20,420 I was in the mirror every day. 1775 01:28:20,503 --> 01:28:21,879 ♪ Bro--♪ [clears throat] 1776 01:28:21,963 --> 01:28:23,089 This nigga's yodeling! 1777 01:28:23,172 --> 01:28:25,508 This motherfucker's making yodeling hot! 1778 01:28:25,591 --> 01:28:28,303 Clarence set up a series of meetings 1779 01:28:28,386 --> 01:28:30,805 with all of the top record executives: 1780 01:28:30,888 --> 01:28:32,890 Jerry Moss from A&M, 1781 01:28:33,516 --> 01:28:34,600 David Geffen, 1782 01:28:35,059 --> 01:28:37,854 Joe Smith was at Capitol Records, 1783 01:28:38,104 --> 01:28:40,440 and Clarence was the orchestrator. 1784 01:28:40,523 --> 01:28:45,194 He was, like, sort of the mediator, the orchestrator, pulling it all together. 1785 01:28:45,278 --> 01:28:49,282 The next meeting was Clarence set us up to go and see Clive Davis. 1786 01:28:49,866 --> 01:28:53,828 I said, "You know, they're gonna complement, with an E, 1787 01:28:54,871 --> 01:28:58,249 the kind of operation that I had... 1788 01:28:59,208 --> 01:29:01,127 in the urban field." 1789 01:29:01,919 --> 01:29:03,880 Clarence, without question, 1790 01:29:03,963 --> 01:29:08,176 was an absolutely essential part of how that deal came through. 1791 01:29:08,843 --> 01:29:11,512 The one thing that stands out was that Clarence said, 1792 01:29:11,596 --> 01:29:13,431 "You must own your masters." 1793 01:29:14,098 --> 01:29:16,392 They were artists. They were just singing. 1794 01:29:16,976 --> 01:29:20,396 You know, maybe if that's all it was ever gonna do, 1795 01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:21,689 they would've lasted... 1796 01:29:23,024 --> 01:29:23,941 ten years. 1797 01:29:24,317 --> 01:29:27,195 But Clarence said, "No, this how you put the company together.  1798 01:29:27,278 --> 01:29:28,905 This how you do business. 1799 01:29:28,988 --> 01:29:30,990 This how you take all of this talent that you have, 1800 01:29:31,074 --> 01:29:33,368 open it up, and grab other people that are talented, 1801 01:29:33,451 --> 01:29:35,119 and now put them out." 1802 01:29:35,536 --> 01:29:39,207 [George] If you look at the run of talent that L.A. and Face signed to LaFace... 1803 01:29:39,290 --> 01:29:40,166 Take TLC, 1804 01:29:40,249 --> 01:29:42,543 which reinvented the vocal group tradition. 1805 01:29:42,627 --> 01:29:45,421 ♪ Don't go chasing waterfalls ♪ 1806 01:29:45,505 --> 01:29:46,547 [George] Take Toni Braxton. 1807 01:29:46,631 --> 01:29:50,426 ♪ Love shoulda brought you home ♪ 1808 01:29:50,510 --> 01:29:51,719 [George] And you take Outkast, 1809 01:29:51,803 --> 01:29:53,596 which became one of the most innovative groups 1810 01:29:53,679 --> 01:29:54,680 in the history of hip-hop. 1811 01:29:54,764 --> 01:29:57,016 ♪ So fresh, so clean So fresh and so clean, clean ♪ 1812 01:29:57,100 --> 01:29:59,560 [George] You have a really powerful label. 1813 01:30:00,395 --> 01:30:02,021 I mean, one after another, 1814 01:30:02,105 --> 01:30:03,940 we became a powerhouse. 1815 01:30:04,899 --> 01:30:07,735 [man] He was an advocate for... 1816 01:30:07,819 --> 01:30:12,824 all of the creative people, you know, the writers, the producers, arrangers. 1817 01:30:13,491 --> 01:30:17,870 [George] Motown really expanded the power of black music as pop music. 1818 01:30:17,954 --> 01:30:22,083 ♪ My girl, ooh... ♪ 1819 01:30:22,166 --> 01:30:25,420 [Gordy] When I sold Motown, I was thrilled 1820 01:30:25,503 --> 01:30:28,297 when Clarence became the chairman of the board. 1821 01:30:29,382 --> 01:30:32,260 [Avant] Alain Levy, chairman of PolyGram, 1822 01:30:32,343 --> 01:30:34,053 said it's a three-year deal. 1823 01:30:34,637 --> 01:30:37,682 I think it was either 600-- $650,000 a year. 1824 01:30:38,433 --> 01:30:40,143 with a $250,000 bonus, 1825 01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:41,561 two-year option. 1826 01:30:42,103 --> 01:30:44,439 I got a piece of paper, said, "Damn! 1827 01:30:45,273 --> 01:30:48,276 Second mortgage is gone, the first mortgage is gone. 1828 01:30:48,359 --> 01:30:50,361 I can pay Herbert and Jerry back. 1829 01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:52,321 Free at last." 1830 01:30:55,283 --> 01:30:56,617 ♪ Hey, hey, hey... ♪ 1831 01:30:56,742 --> 01:30:59,370 [Harrell] Alain Levy made me the new president of Motown. 1832 01:30:59,787 --> 01:31:01,205 It was to bring in new life. 1833 01:31:02,290 --> 01:31:04,500 I had Uptown Productions. 1834 01:31:04,959 --> 01:31:06,502 [George] A lot of new groups out there, 1835 01:31:06,586 --> 01:31:09,297 making music that I think could turn this company around. 1836 01:31:09,380 --> 01:31:12,175 Well! Who are these new groups? 1837 01:31:12,383 --> 01:31:14,260 [hip-hop music playing] 1838 01:31:14,343 --> 01:31:15,803 ♪ Yo! Check this out! ♪ 1839 01:31:15,887 --> 01:31:19,140 ♪ I'm funky fresh Dr. Jeckyll So cool up in the place ♪ 1840 01:31:19,223 --> 01:31:20,266 ♪ Uptown, Uptown! ♪ 1841 01:31:20,349 --> 01:31:21,934 [Avant] I said, "Wait a minute." 1842 01:31:22,226 --> 01:31:23,895 I said, "What the fuck is this?" 1843 01:31:24,812 --> 01:31:28,441 Levy gave Andre $250,000. 1844 01:31:28,733 --> 01:31:29,984 Nobody asked me. 1845 01:31:30,610 --> 01:31:34,739 I was trying to transfer some of the energy of Uptown into Motown, 1846 01:31:34,947 --> 01:31:36,532 so that artists would want to come. 1847 01:31:36,616 --> 01:31:38,826 Andre and I... 1848 01:31:39,952 --> 01:31:41,746 disagreed on a lot of things. 1849 01:31:42,997 --> 01:31:43,831 [snorts] 1850 01:31:44,332 --> 01:31:45,791 End of the day, it's a culture clash. 1851 01:31:45,875 --> 01:31:48,419 I think we'd call it, in medical terms, organ rejection. 1852 01:31:49,003 --> 01:31:53,049 They gave you a company that was broken. It'd been losing money for 12 years. 1853 01:31:54,425 --> 01:31:57,678 They couldn't expect you to turn it around in a year or two! 1854 01:31:58,596 --> 01:32:01,140 I had only been president for 18 months. 1855 01:32:01,724 --> 01:32:03,893 They chose to make me the scapegoat. 1856 01:32:04,352 --> 01:32:05,311 Clarence was... 1857 01:32:06,187 --> 01:32:07,271 He was my protector. 1858 01:32:07,355 --> 01:32:10,066 My dad was... "Okay, even if he deserves to be fired, 1859 01:32:10,149 --> 01:32:12,151 I have to get him his settlement package. 1860 01:32:12,235 --> 01:32:13,528 Because, in fairness, 1861 01:32:13,903 --> 01:32:15,279 if he were white, 1862 01:32:15,363 --> 01:32:16,822 he would get a severance package. 1863 01:32:16,906 --> 01:32:18,783 This guy, he needs to get a severance package." 1864 01:32:18,866 --> 01:32:21,410 Yeah. I had a few arguments with Levy, so what? 1865 01:32:21,494 --> 01:32:22,995 He was one of my closest friends there. 1866 01:32:23,079 --> 01:32:25,665 I have arguments with everybody. Shit. 1867 01:32:25,873 --> 01:32:28,459 I got Clarence Avant backing me up. 1868 01:32:29,210 --> 01:32:33,881 So the meeting lasts about three minutes, and they said, "All right. No problem. 1869 01:32:33,965 --> 01:32:35,216 We'll take care of that." 1870 01:32:37,301 --> 01:32:41,806 [man] He will sit at his desk with a pen and a piece of paper 1871 01:32:42,723 --> 01:32:44,642 and he'll write it out, 1872 01:32:44,725 --> 01:32:46,435 "You know what? This will happen to this. 1873 01:32:46,519 --> 01:32:47,728 Okay, this was this and this." 1874 01:32:47,812 --> 01:32:51,482 And he formulates a map of how to resolve it, 1875 01:32:51,566 --> 01:32:53,734 and then he puts it into action. 1876 01:32:55,778 --> 01:32:58,155 What he was doing, it had to do 1877 01:32:58,614 --> 01:33:01,784 with seeing that everybody was treated right. 1878 01:33:01,867 --> 01:33:04,370 Seeing that things were fair, 1879 01:33:04,453 --> 01:33:05,830 that things were just. 1880 01:33:05,913 --> 01:33:09,208 He's been the only one like himself. 1881 01:33:09,292 --> 01:33:11,002 And, you know, a combination 1882 01:33:11,294 --> 01:33:15,006 of Reverend Sharpton, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X of the record business. 1883 01:33:17,091 --> 01:33:18,593 Sometimes, Reggie, I say to myself, 1884 01:33:18,676 --> 01:33:21,345 "How in the fuck did I get involved in all this shit?" 1885 01:33:22,805 --> 01:33:25,224 [Alex] He does so much and sacrifices, 1886 01:33:25,308 --> 01:33:27,184 it's amazing. 1887 01:33:27,643 --> 01:33:31,314 People have trusted him for, you know, all their lives. 1888 01:33:31,397 --> 01:33:34,609 And, I think, for me, it's something that was conditioned from him. 1889 01:33:34,692 --> 01:33:37,987 The current job that I have as an executive at a talent agency... 1890 01:33:38,321 --> 01:33:40,573 uh, lends that as well. 1891 01:33:41,198 --> 01:33:44,660 [Lewis] Whenever we saw anyone in distress after Clarence helped us, 1892 01:33:44,994 --> 01:33:47,997 we'd say, "'All right, Clarence. You gotta help these guys. 1893 01:33:48,497 --> 01:33:49,999 You gotta help these people." 1894 01:33:50,374 --> 01:33:51,500 And Clarence would help. 1895 01:33:52,209 --> 01:33:55,796 And I'm not just talking about music, I'm talking about civil rights. 1896 01:33:56,213 --> 01:33:59,425 I'm talking about anything that had to do with the rights of people, 1897 01:33:59,508 --> 01:34:02,637 creativity, just being able to do your own thing, 1898 01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:04,388 to voice your opinion. 1899 01:34:04,764 --> 01:34:07,433 Clarence gave you a place to do that... 1900 01:34:08,100 --> 01:34:10,102 and would protect you while you did it. 1901 01:34:10,561 --> 01:34:12,104 ♪ How you living, Biggie Smalls? ♪ 1902 01:34:12,188 --> 01:34:14,440 ♪ In mansion and Benzes Giving ends to my friends... ♪ 1903 01:34:14,523 --> 01:34:16,150 He was only 24 years old, 1904 01:34:16,233 --> 01:34:19,528 was just starting what was expected to be a promising career in music. 1905 01:34:19,612 --> 01:34:22,114 But tonight, it's only what could have been. 1906 01:34:22,740 --> 01:34:26,202 The rap star had just left the Soul Train Awards Party 1907 01:34:26,285 --> 01:34:27,370 and was sitting in his car 1908 01:34:27,453 --> 01:34:30,289 when a vehicle drove by, and someone opened fire. 1909 01:34:30,373 --> 01:34:31,791 [man] When Biggie died, 1910 01:34:31,874 --> 01:34:34,043 I saw another side of Clarence. 1911 01:34:34,126 --> 01:34:37,129 And he was really, really affected by Biggie's death. 1912 01:34:38,339 --> 01:34:40,925 [George] After Biggie's taken to Cedars-Sinai Hospital. 1913 01:34:41,008 --> 01:34:43,010 It strikes everybody at the hospital, 1914 01:34:43,094 --> 01:34:46,138 after they get through the grief, that they're all in danger. 1915 01:34:46,430 --> 01:34:48,724 And particularly, Mr. Sean Combs. 1916 01:34:49,225 --> 01:34:52,937 Since Biggie was on his label, Puff was the likely next target. 1917 01:34:53,729 --> 01:34:55,439 [Combs] Usually, Clarence gets the call 1918 01:34:55,523 --> 01:34:56,899 from a position of fear 1919 01:34:57,692 --> 01:35:02,154 because... I called him like most people call him. 1920 01:35:02,238 --> 01:35:04,407 He's the one to call when we're in trouble. 1921 01:35:05,700 --> 01:35:07,827 [George] Because they worried about people at airports 1922 01:35:07,910 --> 01:35:10,287 looking for him, they drove to San Diego. 1923 01:35:10,913 --> 01:35:13,290 From San Diego, a flight was booked to go to Miami. 1924 01:35:13,916 --> 01:35:17,503 So again, this was sort of masterminded 1925 01:35:17,586 --> 01:35:19,880 by... Clarence Avant. 1926 01:35:20,464 --> 01:35:21,966 'Cause we in the music industry, 1927 01:35:22,049 --> 01:35:23,968 everybody's getting caught up into something. 1928 01:35:24,051 --> 01:35:27,346 You know, we were young, talented people, 1929 01:35:27,430 --> 01:35:30,766 never been hit with wealth or power. 1930 01:35:32,101 --> 01:35:35,187 You know, I'm sitting here because he kept my ass outta jail, 1931 01:35:35,271 --> 01:35:36,647 like two, three times. 1932 01:35:36,731 --> 01:35:39,024 I'm cured now, though, everybody.  1933 01:35:39,108 --> 01:35:42,027 I'm cured. Everything's good, you know. 1934 01:35:42,111 --> 01:35:45,072 Y'all can have me over for dinner. Everything is good, 1935 01:35:45,531 --> 01:35:47,408 thanks to the godfather, Clarence. 1936 01:35:47,491 --> 01:35:49,368 I would hear, and I dunno if I'm overstepping, 1937 01:35:49,452 --> 01:35:51,036 but I would hear about people 1938 01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:53,456 that were in very serious situations 1939 01:35:53,539 --> 01:35:55,624 when it came to... life. 1940 01:35:56,292 --> 01:35:57,543 Just life in general. 1941 01:35:58,085 --> 01:36:01,589 And they would say, "The only person that can help you with this... 1942 01:36:02,381 --> 01:36:03,632 is Clarence Avant." 1943 01:36:06,427 --> 01:36:07,553 [Snoop Dogg] When I was... 1944 01:36:08,387 --> 01:36:10,347 ...having difficulties with Death Row Records 1945 01:36:10,431 --> 01:36:11,307 and Suge Knight, 1946 01:36:11,390 --> 01:36:13,934 there was a lot of call for violence and action. 1947 01:36:15,561 --> 01:36:18,898 And the message that I received from Clarence was just to be me 1948 01:36:18,981 --> 01:36:21,525 and to think about those kids that's looking up to me, 1949 01:36:21,609 --> 01:36:23,736 and the youth that are inspired by me. 1950 01:36:23,819 --> 01:36:27,698 So one action that I create could be a million actions that'll be followed.  1951 01:36:29,074 --> 01:36:30,868 You know, I was young and... 1952 01:36:31,577 --> 01:36:34,622 considered a gangster, or a thug, or whatever you wanna call it, 1953 01:36:34,705 --> 01:36:38,042 and I didn't really want to hear it, but I had to reevaluate the conversation 1954 01:36:38,125 --> 01:36:41,462 and say, "Well, this man is a legend. An icon. 1955 01:36:41,545 --> 01:36:43,839 If he's taking his time to deliver this message to me, 1956 01:36:43,923 --> 01:36:45,257 he must see something in me." 1957 01:36:45,341 --> 01:36:48,469 So it just made me take on a stance of peace, 1958 01:36:48,552 --> 01:36:50,846 and it'll always be about peace and be about love, 1959 01:36:51,222 --> 01:36:53,307 and to confront violence with love. 1960 01:36:54,391 --> 01:36:57,186 Clarence is the type of person that wants everyone to do better 1961 01:36:57,269 --> 01:36:58,896 because he understands 1962 01:36:59,021 --> 01:37:03,025 that there are strength in numbers, and the bigger that we are together, 1963 01:37:03,317 --> 01:37:06,111 the bigger we will be as a entire culture. 1964 01:37:06,195 --> 01:37:07,822 Never asked us for nothin'. 1965 01:37:08,405 --> 01:37:09,365 Never. 1966 01:37:09,448 --> 01:37:11,534 As far as monetary and stuff like that, 1967 01:37:11,617 --> 01:37:13,786 I just think that he does it out of the love, 1968 01:37:13,869 --> 01:37:16,956 which makes me do it out of the love with a lot of these young guys. 1969 01:37:17,039 --> 01:37:19,542 I'll be honest with you, I've talked to, you know, 1970 01:37:19,625 --> 01:37:21,377 Jimmy, Terry, 1971 01:37:21,460 --> 01:37:23,754 L.A., Babyface, a lot of the guys, so it was like, 1972 01:37:23,963 --> 01:37:25,464 "So, whatever happened 1973 01:37:25,548 --> 01:37:28,008 when he did this for you and did that for you? 1974 01:37:28,092 --> 01:37:30,511 Did-- Was there a cost to it? Did you get a bill for it?"  1975 01:37:30,594 --> 01:37:32,304 "Nope! Never got a bill for it!" 1976 01:37:33,055 --> 01:37:34,932 I don't know how he made a living. 1977 01:37:35,015 --> 01:37:36,934 He never seemed to charge anybody. 1978 01:37:37,059 --> 01:37:39,520 Well, everybody comes to me for this, that, this, 1979 01:37:39,603 --> 01:37:41,105 that, you know. And so, 1980 01:37:41,188 --> 01:37:43,065 if I like the people, why not? 1981 01:37:43,691 --> 01:37:45,067 He had an attitude. 1982 01:37:46,527 --> 01:37:48,279 Did you know he had an attitude? 1983 01:37:48,362 --> 01:37:50,489 [chuckles] 1984 01:37:50,573 --> 01:37:52,324 He does not suffer fools lightly. 1985 01:37:52,741 --> 01:37:55,160 As much as he loves a good laugh 1986 01:37:55,619 --> 01:37:57,413 and a good story, 1987 01:37:57,580 --> 01:37:59,707 he does not suffer fools. 1988 01:37:59,790 --> 01:38:03,752 People get upset with my attitude, but I don't give a fuck, you know. 1989 01:38:03,836 --> 01:38:06,589 He has this facade of being gruff, and mean, 1990 01:38:06,672 --> 01:38:09,550 and "I don't give a damn!" and "Get the fuck outta here!"  1991 01:38:09,633 --> 01:38:10,718 And blah, blah, blah. 1992 01:38:10,801 --> 01:38:12,595 All of that is just a facade. 1993 01:38:12,678 --> 01:38:15,139 In the middle of all that MF-ing... 1994 01:38:15,598 --> 01:38:17,057 is an extraordinary, 1995 01:38:17,725 --> 01:38:19,101 elegant man. 1996 01:38:19,184 --> 01:38:21,937 [Adolph] Part of the magic of Clarence is 1997 01:38:22,021 --> 01:38:24,398 there's so much more there than what you see. 1998 01:38:25,024 --> 01:38:28,027 He doesn't talk in terms of emotion.  1999 01:38:28,110 --> 01:38:30,654 If you press him on... "What is love, Clarence?" 2000 01:38:30,738 --> 01:38:32,489 "Do you love something or someone loves you?" 2001 01:38:32,573 --> 01:38:34,158 He pushes back on that. 2002 01:38:34,241 --> 01:38:37,453 I think some people will see Clarence and go, "Who's this gruff guy? 2003 01:38:37,536 --> 01:38:39,204 He's talkin' about money all the time." 2004 01:38:39,705 --> 01:38:42,708 That seems to be his overt way he likes to present himself,  2005 01:38:42,791 --> 01:38:45,502 'cause he always talks about life as numbers. 2006 01:38:45,586 --> 01:38:47,421 Well, life is about one thing: numbers. 2007 01:38:47,504 --> 01:38:48,923 Life is about numbers. 2008 01:38:49,006 --> 01:38:51,300 I told you, man. Life is about numbers, didn't I? 2009 01:38:51,383 --> 01:38:52,843 -[interviewer] Yes, you did. -Shit! 2010 01:38:52,927 --> 01:38:54,637 You come with one, and you end with one. 2011 01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:57,514 -When is your birthday? -[laughing] 2012 01:38:58,599 --> 01:39:02,186 [McKeever] I remember when he collected the million dollars for Bill Clinton, 2013 01:39:02,269 --> 01:39:04,313 which was unprecedented 2014 01:39:04,813 --> 01:39:07,024 in what that was gonna mean 2015 01:39:07,107 --> 01:39:09,568 for the consolidation of a voice inside that, 2016 01:39:09,652 --> 01:39:11,403 and this is how you really are heard.  2017 01:39:11,487 --> 01:39:12,655 You know, this is how the-- 2018 01:39:12,738 --> 01:39:16,784 He was also completely unfiltered about this is how this game works. 2019 01:39:18,827 --> 01:39:21,830 [Avant] You either join a country club, or you remain a goddamn caddy. 2020 01:39:21,914 --> 01:39:23,165 I'm not a fuckin' caddy. 2021 01:39:24,792 --> 01:39:25,626 Period. 2022 01:39:26,919 --> 01:39:29,463 So, Bill Clinton and I became very close friends. 2023 01:39:30,839 --> 01:39:33,175 [President Clinton] He's real quiet at first. He's reserved. 2024 01:39:33,258 --> 01:39:35,970 He doesn't exactly throw himself at you. Um... 2025 01:39:36,095 --> 01:39:37,513 But I just liked him. 2026 01:39:38,514 --> 01:39:41,475 And I just kept being with him, and I thought, "God, this guy's special." 2027 01:39:41,558 --> 01:39:44,311 [Medina] He has put Bill Clinton's feet to the fire 2028 01:39:44,395 --> 01:39:46,105 in front of an audience... 2029 01:39:46,188 --> 01:39:49,066 to the point that he will ask the questions 2030 01:39:49,149 --> 01:39:50,985 as to why and how 2031 01:39:51,068 --> 01:39:54,113 we can be really comfortable that, once you get this job, 2032 01:39:54,196 --> 01:39:56,740 all the promises that you're making to this community, 2033 01:39:56,824 --> 01:39:58,784 you're gonna really stand by them. You know? 2034 01:39:58,867 --> 01:40:00,953 You know, like, he would just straight up be like, 2035 01:40:01,036 --> 01:40:03,664 "Motherfucker, what're you gonna do when you get the job?" 2036 01:40:03,747 --> 01:40:05,374 You know, I like that about him. 2037 01:40:05,457 --> 01:40:07,084 It's never gratuitous. 2038 01:40:07,167 --> 01:40:11,964 But if he has something to say that's embellished, let's say, by a... 2039 01:40:12,047 --> 01:40:14,591 purple word, he doesn't hesitate to use it. 2040 01:40:15,592 --> 01:40:19,430 [Avant] I was invited to the White House three months after he became president. 2041 01:40:19,513 --> 01:40:21,140 The fuck do I care about Lincoln's bedroom? 2042 01:40:21,223 --> 01:40:23,434 I didn't see Lincoln when we went in there, 2043 01:40:23,517 --> 01:40:25,561 so it doesn't make any difference to me. Fuck it, man. 2044 01:40:25,644 --> 01:40:28,731 So we stayed, big deal. That's all. Nothing like that don't move me. 2045 01:40:28,814 --> 01:40:30,024 Clarence... 2046 01:40:31,775 --> 01:40:36,030 hangin' out with Bill Clinton... is a long way from Climax. 2047 01:40:38,407 --> 01:40:39,992 My favorite story... 2048 01:40:44,663 --> 01:40:48,250 is... deeply personal. 2049 01:40:49,877 --> 01:40:55,507 When the Republicans were trying to run me outta town, 2050 01:40:56,925 --> 01:40:59,762 Clarence Avant looked at me and he said, 2051 01:41:00,512 --> 01:41:01,972 "Don't even think about it... 2052 01:41:04,933 --> 01:41:07,436 Don't even think about it." He said... 2053 01:41:08,062 --> 01:41:09,897 He said, "This ain't gonna happen... 2054 01:41:10,355 --> 01:41:11,565 unless you give in." 2055 01:41:13,442 --> 01:41:16,820 He said, "Don't spend a lot of time on this in public. Do your job. 2056 01:41:17,488 --> 01:41:18,906 Let people see you working. 2057 01:41:19,239 --> 01:41:21,241 It ain't gonna happen." [chuckles] 2058 01:41:21,325 --> 01:41:23,160 You know, it was so Clarence. 2059 01:41:23,827 --> 01:41:25,037 You know, it was like... 2060 01:41:25,329 --> 01:41:28,499 now that's maybe selfish of me to say, but that's my favorite story  2061 01:41:28,582 --> 01:41:32,044 'cause, you know, when it's raining outside, 2062 01:41:32,419 --> 01:41:35,589 if a guy comes up with a little umbrella, you feel pretty good. 2063 01:41:36,340 --> 01:41:37,966 And Clarence, for me, 2064 01:41:40,177 --> 01:41:42,888 has always had that umbrella. 2065 01:41:42,971 --> 01:41:45,349 Not just for me, but for anybody he thought... 2066 01:41:46,225 --> 01:41:47,559 needed a handout. 2067 01:41:47,643 --> 01:41:48,852 Anybody he thought... 2068 01:41:49,770 --> 01:41:51,730 needed somebody to be a wall. 2069 01:41:52,106 --> 01:41:55,192 The guy's a rock. In every way. 2070 01:41:58,153 --> 01:42:00,155 [Senator Harris] So, Clarence is viewed in the party 2071 01:42:00,239 --> 01:42:02,282 as being a go-to person 2072 01:42:02,366 --> 01:42:03,617 if not, you know, 2073 01:42:03,700 --> 01:42:07,329 part of that group of folks that are called the king and queenmakers. 2074 01:42:07,412 --> 01:42:08,580 He's the kingmaker. 2075 01:42:08,872 --> 01:42:11,959 He not only is satisfied with that, he realizes that that's where 2076 01:42:12,042 --> 01:42:15,754 he can be most effective, and frankly, where he's most comfortable. 2077 01:42:15,838 --> 01:42:17,131 [hip-hop music playing] 2078 01:42:20,634 --> 01:42:23,011 [George] He would have parties at his home 2079 01:42:23,095 --> 01:42:25,848 that had great musicians and great friends there. 2080 01:42:25,931 --> 01:42:28,142 And Clarence would be at the grill barbecuing. 2081 01:42:28,225 --> 01:42:30,435 Jackie would be in the kitchen hustling around. 2082 01:42:30,519 --> 01:42:32,354 All the kids would be playing together. 2083 01:42:34,481 --> 01:42:37,609 You could not be an African-American candidate in this country 2084 01:42:37,693 --> 01:42:39,862 running for a serious office in anything 2085 01:42:39,945 --> 01:42:42,531 and not have consulted with Clarence Avant 2086 01:42:42,614 --> 01:42:44,533 on the way that things should be done. 2087 01:42:44,616 --> 01:42:45,909 The first fund-raiser I went to, 2088 01:42:45,993 --> 01:42:49,037 one of the first things he invited me to was-- from-- 2089 01:42:49,121 --> 01:42:50,873 He wasn't even a senator yet-- 2090 01:42:50,956 --> 01:42:52,249 was for Barack Obama. 2091 01:42:53,041 --> 01:42:56,170 He called me about a young man in Chicago... 2092 01:42:56,253 --> 01:42:58,255 [laughing] 2093 01:42:59,423 --> 01:43:00,799 ...named Barack Obama. 2094 01:43:01,925 --> 01:43:05,387 When it came time for the convention in Boston-- 2095 01:43:05,470 --> 01:43:09,391 uh, and I remember Barack called Clarence. 2096 01:43:10,058 --> 01:43:12,519 [Avant] He said, "Clarence, they want me to speak, 2097 01:43:12,603 --> 01:43:14,188 but I'm not even prime time." 2098 01:43:15,272 --> 01:43:17,524 Who do you think made that fuckin' telephone call? 2099 01:43:17,608 --> 01:43:20,736 To somebody in John Kerry's camp. I don't know who the fuck it was... 2100 01:43:20,819 --> 01:43:22,237 He made that famous speech. 2101 01:43:22,529 --> 01:43:23,989 [man] Barack Obama! 2102 01:43:24,740 --> 01:43:26,617 [crowd cheering] 2103 01:43:26,700 --> 01:43:28,952 [Mathis] They moved Barack to prime time, 2104 01:43:29,036 --> 01:43:31,038 and then the whole country sees, 2105 01:43:31,496 --> 01:43:35,125 "No red state, no blue state. These United States." It changed history. 2106 01:43:35,209 --> 01:43:38,587 There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. 2107 01:43:38,670 --> 01:43:41,256 There is the United States of America. 2108 01:43:42,758 --> 01:43:46,428 There is not a black America, and a white America, 2109 01:43:46,511 --> 01:43:49,473 and Latino America, and Asian America.  2110 01:43:49,556 --> 01:43:51,975 There's the United States of America. 2111 01:43:52,059 --> 01:43:54,061 [soft piano playing] 2112 01:43:58,190 --> 01:44:00,943 [Avant] Did I ever think I'd see a black president? Hell no. 2113 01:44:01,902 --> 01:44:03,320 It wasn't in the card game. 2114 01:44:04,321 --> 01:44:06,281 When he said he was gonna run, 2115 01:44:07,824 --> 01:44:09,284 I thought he was nuts. 2116 01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:11,370 I had a conversation with him 2117 01:44:11,453 --> 01:44:14,790 and explained why I thought the moment was right, 2118 01:44:14,873 --> 01:44:18,460 and I'm not sure that Clarence actually thought I could win, 2119 01:44:18,543 --> 01:44:20,879 but he was nice and encouraging anyway. 2120 01:44:22,506 --> 01:44:25,550 There is that generational issue, and Clarence, 2121 01:44:25,634 --> 01:44:28,345 like Vernon Jordan and others, 2122 01:44:28,929 --> 01:44:31,473 they are really the bridge... 2123 01:44:32,891 --> 01:44:36,561 from a time where there was almost no opportunity 2124 01:44:36,645 --> 01:44:39,648 to a time where doors began to open. 2125 01:44:40,691 --> 01:44:42,776 And they led the way  2126 01:44:43,110 --> 01:44:46,238 in politics, in business, 2127 01:44:46,321 --> 01:44:49,157 in the arts, in saying, 2128 01:44:49,241 --> 01:44:50,993 "You know, make room for us." 2129 01:44:52,244 --> 01:44:54,579 For most of their lives, oftentimes, 2130 01:44:55,747 --> 01:45:00,002 that door was just open a crack, and success was tenuous. 2131 01:45:00,335 --> 01:45:03,588 And I would never challenge them... 2132 01:45:04,548 --> 01:45:08,552 sticking with some of the folks who'd brung 'em to the dance. 2133 01:45:09,928 --> 01:45:12,055 [Nicole] When they were both running against each other, 2134 01:45:12,139 --> 01:45:15,475 I remember going to my father, and I said, "Listen, I like them both, 2135 01:45:15,559 --> 01:45:17,728 and I'm not against Hillary or anything, 2136 01:45:17,811 --> 01:45:19,604 but I feel like this... 2137 01:45:20,230 --> 01:45:23,400 Something's happening with Obama, and I really want to be involved, 2138 01:45:23,483 --> 01:45:25,027 they're asking me to do things, and... 2139 01:45:25,110 --> 01:45:27,029 But if it's gonna be weird with the Clintons... 2140 01:45:27,112 --> 01:45:28,822 He was so great. He looked at me and he said, 2141 01:45:29,406 --> 01:45:30,490 "You're a grown woman. 2142 01:45:31,116 --> 01:45:32,784 You can make your own decision." 2143 01:45:33,201 --> 01:45:35,620 And I said, "I'm really not against anybody." 2144 01:45:35,704 --> 01:45:36,747 He said, "No, go." 2145 01:45:36,830 --> 01:45:39,416 And then of course, he said, "And he's not gonna win." 2146 01:45:39,916 --> 01:45:41,293 And I said, 2147 01:45:41,376 --> 01:45:42,627 "Dad, he's gonna win." 2148 01:45:42,711 --> 01:45:45,881 He said he had-- No chance in hell, is Obama gonna win. 2149 01:45:47,132 --> 01:45:48,592 -Didn't you? -Yep! 2150 01:45:49,634 --> 01:45:54,348 [President Obama] Nicole, in coming on-board very early on my campaign, 2151 01:45:54,973 --> 01:45:56,058 in her own way, 2152 01:45:56,141 --> 01:45:58,268 she was expressing values that had been taught to her 2153 01:45:58,352 --> 01:46:01,605 by Clarence and Jackie. And part of that is independent thinking 2154 01:46:01,688 --> 01:46:03,940 and... making up your own mind, and... 2155 01:46:04,358 --> 01:46:07,110 uh, I-- I'd like to think that... 2156 01:46:07,736 --> 01:46:10,489 Clarence didn't necessarily mind being proven wrong. 2157 01:46:11,573 --> 01:46:13,033 Don't think he didn't rub it in. 2158 01:46:13,116 --> 01:46:14,659 [crowd chanting] Obama! Obama! 2159 01:46:14,743 --> 01:46:16,787 -[President Obama] Thank you. -Obama! Obama! 2160 01:46:16,870 --> 01:46:17,913 Thank you! 2161 01:46:17,996 --> 01:46:19,289 God bless you, 2162 01:46:19,373 --> 01:46:21,541 and God bless the United States of America. 2163 01:46:24,002 --> 01:46:25,462 [Nicole] After the inauguration, 2164 01:46:25,545 --> 01:46:28,173 I became an ambassador to the Bahamas. 2165 01:46:28,715 --> 01:46:32,219 You know, and then the best part for me about the whole ambassadorship 2166 01:46:32,302 --> 01:46:35,055 was having my father's longtime friend, 2167 01:46:35,430 --> 01:46:39,518 as a Secretary of State, swearing me in. She didn't do a lot of ambassadors. 2168 01:46:41,186 --> 01:46:44,981 He came to Washington, and I saw this-- I had never seen it before-- 2169 01:46:45,440 --> 01:46:48,318 of beaming with such pride. 2170 01:46:49,277 --> 01:46:53,740 For him, it was like all this shit finally came together to make sense. 2171 01:46:54,199 --> 01:46:57,202 I'm sure that he was enormously proud, and rightfully so, 2172 01:46:57,285 --> 01:46:59,246 because Nicole served our country well. 2173 01:47:00,122 --> 01:47:03,333 I did most everything I wanted to do in life, 2174 01:47:03,583 --> 01:47:07,170 except being Warren Buffett or Bill Gates. 2175 01:47:07,754 --> 01:47:09,381 [interviewer] Alex, what about you? 2176 01:47:09,464 --> 01:47:11,633 You ever feel pressured to live up to your father's name? 2177 01:47:11,716 --> 01:47:14,094 -Oh, shit. -What's that supposed to mean? 2178 01:47:14,177 --> 01:47:16,138 -[interviewer] Well.. -Let Alex answer the question. 2179 01:47:16,221 --> 01:47:18,515 -It's a big deal. See? -Every day. Every day. 2180 01:47:18,598 --> 01:47:20,392 -Oh, I see. -[Nicole] See? 2181 01:47:20,475 --> 01:47:21,309 Every day. 2182 01:47:22,227 --> 01:47:23,145 For sure. 2183 01:47:24,688 --> 01:47:27,357 [Nicole] It was harder on Alex because of his gender, I think. 2184 01:47:27,441 --> 01:47:28,567 For me, 2185 01:47:28,650 --> 01:47:30,944 I had a different tape in my head, which was, 2186 01:47:31,027 --> 01:47:32,154 "I'm saying yes to everything 2187 01:47:32,237 --> 01:47:34,364 because I'm Clarence Avant's daughter, so I'm doing it.  2188 01:47:34,448 --> 01:47:36,450 I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this." 2189 01:47:36,533 --> 01:47:38,994 But it was always because I was his daughter. 2190 01:47:39,703 --> 01:47:43,665 [Alex] It was, like, amazing to be raised from my mom and my dad. 2191 01:47:43,748 --> 01:47:46,084 But, you know, everyone was like, 2192 01:47:46,168 --> 01:47:47,919 "I need to holla at your dad!" 2193 01:47:48,003 --> 01:47:49,796 So it's kind of... sometimes it's kinda crazy 2194 01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:52,215 'cause they take a lot of time. A lot. 2195 01:47:52,799 --> 01:47:56,428 They're taking the father-son time away or, you know, son-father time away, 2196 01:47:56,511 --> 01:47:57,721 sometimes, it feels. 2197 01:48:01,892 --> 01:48:04,603 My father-- I'll never forget it 'cause this, like, makes me cry. 2198 01:48:04,686 --> 01:48:06,146 Uh. Whoo. 2199 01:48:08,607 --> 01:48:10,734 [exhales] Um... 2200 01:48:12,319 --> 01:48:14,488 It's like, you know, he's like, 2201 01:48:14,696 --> 01:48:16,823 "You know, I don't know how long I'm gonna be here." 2202 01:48:20,952 --> 01:48:23,205 It's weird because sometimes people say, 2203 01:48:24,706 --> 01:48:27,626 "Shit, when he goes, who're we gonna call?" 2204 01:48:30,504 --> 01:48:32,714 And for me, it's like, "Who am I gonna call?" 2205 01:48:35,717 --> 01:48:36,676 It's tough. 2206 01:48:38,512 --> 01:48:39,554 It's tough. 2207 01:48:46,228 --> 01:48:49,731 I told him the other day, I said, "If you left this planet tomorrow, 2208 01:48:50,190 --> 01:48:51,942 you fulfilled your purpose. 2209 01:48:53,109 --> 01:48:56,530 It was very clear what your purpose was. That's-- It's obvious." 2210 01:48:57,113 --> 01:48:58,573 And he never wavered from it. 2211 01:48:59,199 --> 01:49:01,618 Never. No matter what business he was in. 2212 01:49:01,701 --> 01:49:03,620 Didn't matter if he was promoting a tour, 2213 01:49:03,703 --> 01:49:06,164 running a record company, running a radio station. 2214 01:49:06,248 --> 01:49:08,416 He knew his purpose, head-on, 2215 01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:11,503 was black people are going to move forward. 2216 01:49:12,921 --> 01:49:16,424 [Lewis] He'll take something that was impossible and make it possible, 2217 01:49:16,508 --> 01:49:18,343 because he'll bring the parties together 2218 01:49:18,426 --> 01:49:21,972 and make them understand the concept, the overall vision of it. 2219 01:49:22,556 --> 01:49:25,809 Then he makes you realize your responsibility 2220 01:49:25,892 --> 01:49:27,352 to whatever it is, 2221 01:49:27,435 --> 01:49:30,772 and then your responsibility to give to the next one. 2222 01:49:30,855 --> 01:49:31,940 Each one, teach one. 2223 01:49:32,399 --> 01:49:33,525 Everybody's giving. 2224 01:49:34,109 --> 01:49:35,860 And then the spirit gets bigger and bigger, 2225 01:49:35,944 --> 01:49:38,321 and the circle gets bigger and bigger. 2226 01:49:38,405 --> 01:49:41,074 And you keep touching, and moving, and shaking. 2227 01:49:41,157 --> 01:49:43,952 And Clarence exposed us to that world. 2228 01:49:44,828 --> 01:49:47,080 [Medina] Look at, like, that artistic journey 2229 01:49:47,163 --> 01:49:48,623 and put anything in between it. 2230 01:49:48,707 --> 01:49:51,501 Little Willie John is all the way over here, 2231 01:49:51,668 --> 01:49:54,212 and Michael Jackson's right there in the middle, 2232 01:49:54,296 --> 01:49:58,258 and then there's Bobby Brown, and then there's Alexander O'Neal, 2233 01:49:58,341 --> 01:50:01,386 and then go another layer, and then you go from Quincy Jones 2234 01:50:01,469 --> 01:50:05,682 to L.A. and Babyface, and Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, and Teddy Riley, 2235 01:50:05,765 --> 01:50:07,726 and the list goes on and on and on. 2236 01:50:07,809 --> 01:50:09,853 It's not even like he's a bridge. 2237 01:50:10,312 --> 01:50:11,396 He's the way! 2238 01:50:12,230 --> 01:50:14,441 You know, we call him the godfather as our parent. 2239 01:50:14,524 --> 01:50:16,276 You know, we're all children of Clarence. 2240 01:50:16,359 --> 01:50:18,278 We're all children of Clarence. And it's weird 2241 01:50:18,361 --> 01:50:21,114 because sometimes you don't even know the other children of Clarence 2242 01:50:21,197 --> 01:50:23,366 until you see them do something or say something. 2243 01:50:23,450 --> 01:50:24,909 You're like, "Wait a minute. 2244 01:50:24,993 --> 01:50:28,955 You don't just say that. That came from this bloodline." 2245 01:50:30,624 --> 01:50:32,042 What the fuck is this? 2246 01:50:34,127 --> 01:50:35,629 Now I'm getting nervous. 2247 01:50:37,297 --> 01:50:40,634 [interviewer] Do you think it's possible for there to be another Clarence Avant? 2248 01:50:41,301 --> 01:50:42,218 No. 2249 01:50:42,302 --> 01:50:44,846 There could never be another Clarence. 2250 01:50:44,929 --> 01:50:46,765 I don't feel comfortable answering that question 2251 01:50:46,848 --> 01:50:48,266 'cause it sounds a little crazy. 2252 01:50:48,350 --> 01:50:49,726 I don't-- I don't wanna-- 2253 01:50:49,809 --> 01:50:52,062 That's not something I'm not even trying to think about. 2254 01:50:52,145 --> 01:50:54,564 You only find one of those people. 2255 01:50:54,648 --> 01:50:57,233 You don't find more than one. 2256 01:50:57,317 --> 01:50:59,194 There will never be another Clarence Avant. 2257 01:50:59,277 --> 01:51:02,405 However, his goal is to plant seeds, 2258 01:51:02,489 --> 01:51:04,616 so that there can be individuals just like him. 2259 01:51:04,699 --> 01:51:07,744 We all trying to live by his-- the example that he set, a'ight? 2260 01:51:07,827 --> 01:51:10,205 Which is, you know, share what you've learned 2261 01:51:10,288 --> 01:51:11,623 with the next generation. 2262 01:51:11,706 --> 01:51:14,417 He actually says-- he has said it to me many times. 2263 01:51:14,709 --> 01:51:17,879 He's like, "Baby, you gotta get your generation to be active. 2264 01:51:18,213 --> 01:51:19,047 I'm tired. 2265 01:51:19,130 --> 01:51:20,799 [laughs] 2266 01:51:20,882 --> 01:51:22,175 This should be fun. 2267 01:51:22,300 --> 01:51:23,343 [interviewer] Oh, yeah. 2268 01:51:23,843 --> 01:51:26,179 [crowd clamoring] 2269 01:51:27,430 --> 01:51:29,432 ["Lean On Me" plays] 2270 01:51:30,850 --> 01:51:34,312 -My main man! -Hey, what's up? What's up? 2271 01:51:34,896 --> 01:51:35,730 Hi. 2272 01:51:36,856 --> 01:51:38,817 -A star is born. -That's right! 2273 01:51:38,900 --> 01:51:40,402 [Withers] And so today, 2274 01:51:41,444 --> 01:51:42,278 my man, 2275 01:51:42,862 --> 01:51:46,074 they gonna put your name on the Walk of Fame. 2276 01:51:46,157 --> 01:51:48,159 [crowd applauds, cheers] 2277 01:51:49,160 --> 01:51:50,203 [Avant] Thank you. 2278 01:51:51,538 --> 01:51:52,539 Wow! 2279 01:51:54,290 --> 01:51:57,669 ♪ Sometimes in our life... ♪ 2280 01:51:58,503 --> 01:52:01,923 [Babyface] Because it isn't always about the money. 2281 01:52:02,006 --> 01:52:03,341 Well, he would beg to differ. 2282 01:52:03,425 --> 01:52:07,846 Yeah, I know. He would beg to differ, but I would argue that 2283 01:52:07,929 --> 01:52:09,389 that's part of his game. 2284 01:52:09,472 --> 01:52:10,640 'Cause... 2285 01:52:10,724 --> 01:52:13,268 I believe what's most important to Clarence Avant 2286 01:52:13,351 --> 01:52:15,103 has nothing to do with money. 2287 01:52:15,186 --> 01:52:18,481 And he will argue it all day long, but I disagree completely. 2288 01:52:18,565 --> 01:52:20,150 It has to do with 2289 01:52:20,233 --> 01:52:23,945 how much did it help you, help your family, 2290 01:52:24,028 --> 01:52:25,321 and help your people, 2291 01:52:25,864 --> 01:52:26,990 help everyone? 2292 01:52:27,574 --> 01:52:29,075 [Foxx] Thank you for doing what you do. 2293 01:52:29,159 --> 01:52:30,744 We will take this to the next generation 2294 01:52:30,827 --> 01:52:31,995 and keep on going.  2295 01:52:35,707 --> 01:52:39,669 [Babyface] If he felt like you were going out there and doing for others 2296 01:52:39,753 --> 01:52:41,379 as he's tried to do for you... 2297 01:52:42,338 --> 01:52:43,173 then I think 2298 01:52:43,256 --> 01:52:46,301 he would feel much better about not getting that. 2299 01:52:46,384 --> 01:52:49,721 But if he feels like he did all this, and you did nothing... 2300 01:52:50,305 --> 01:52:52,557 with it, and you helped no one, 2301 01:52:53,141 --> 01:52:54,476 then that was a bad investment. 2302 01:52:54,559 --> 01:52:57,437 -Yeah. -Of my time and my love. 2303 01:52:58,480 --> 01:53:01,524 That's why we'll always have respect for Clarence Avant, 'cause in the-- 2304 01:53:01,608 --> 01:53:02,567 in the end, 2305 01:53:03,526 --> 01:53:05,570 he's got family. He's the first family, 2306 01:53:05,653 --> 01:53:07,947 and that ain't been about money, that's about love. 2307 01:53:08,031 --> 01:53:09,991 Let's get that family together. 2308 01:53:10,992 --> 01:53:12,035 That's the example. 2309 01:53:12,327 --> 01:53:16,039 ♪ Oh, lean on me ♪ 2310 01:53:17,749 --> 01:53:20,668 Hey, man, I had a good life thus far. 2311 01:53:21,044 --> 01:53:23,087 If I wake up tomorrow morning, and I'm Warren Buffett, 2312 01:53:23,171 --> 01:53:24,464 I'll have a better life. 2313 01:53:24,547 --> 01:53:26,549 [vocalizing] 2314 01:53:31,221 --> 01:53:34,015 You know, whenever I see Clarence, he always gives me a hug, 2315 01:53:34,098 --> 01:53:35,683 and cusses me out, 2316 01:53:35,767 --> 01:53:38,144 [chuckles] and then ask me what I'm doing. 2317 01:53:38,228 --> 01:53:40,939 Know what I mean? He's like, "Motherfucker, what are you talking about? 2318 01:53:41,022 --> 01:53:43,107 You know, I mean, that's some bullshit!" 2319 01:53:43,191 --> 01:53:45,610 Clarence had that old, by the bayou cussing. 2320 01:53:45,693 --> 01:53:47,529 "Now, you get your motherfucking ass." 2321 01:53:47,612 --> 01:53:50,365 You know, how you got that inflection like that. 2322 01:53:50,448 --> 01:53:52,325 "You get your motherfucking ass!" 2323 01:53:52,408 --> 01:53:54,327 For me, he's called me 2324 01:53:54,410 --> 01:53:56,996 every kind of name you can probably think of. 2325 01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:01,835 Clarence would be on the phone, calling the president of a studio an MF. 2326 01:54:01,918 --> 01:54:03,753 What the fuck is he doing? 2327 01:54:03,837 --> 01:54:05,630 "What the fuck was that? What y'all doing?" 2328 01:54:05,713 --> 01:54:08,383 You've never been cussed out till Clarence cusses you out. 2329 01:54:08,466 --> 01:54:10,093 A Clarence curse-out was like... 2330 01:54:10,677 --> 01:54:12,262 "Wow, that was great." 2331 01:54:13,304 --> 01:54:14,889 Like Stockholm Syndrome. 2332 01:54:14,973 --> 01:54:16,850 [laughing] 2333 01:54:16,933 --> 01:54:19,394 "All right, motherfucker! Let's go get paid! 2334 01:54:19,727 --> 01:54:21,062 Let's go get paid!" 2335 01:54:21,145 --> 01:54:23,314 Most affectionate "motherfucker" anybody could give you. 2336 01:54:23,398 --> 01:54:24,232 Yeah. 2337 01:54:24,315 --> 01:54:25,650 It's almost like Jekyll and Hyde. 2338 01:54:25,733 --> 01:54:28,111 You can't believe that we're talking about the same... 2339 01:54:29,863 --> 01:54:32,198 eloquent person that we know so well. 2340 01:54:32,282 --> 01:54:34,909 You know, I've been called motherfucker so much by Clarence, 2341 01:54:34,993 --> 01:54:37,412 I thought "motherfucker" was my middle... [laughing] 2342 01:54:37,495 --> 01:54:38,997 Clarence has never cursed me out, 2343 01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:41,457 I am so proud to say. 2344 01:54:43,918 --> 01:54:47,005 Now, when y'all through with me, how much y'all paying me for all this? 2345 01:54:47,088 --> 01:54:48,131 [interviewer laughs] 2346 01:54:48,214 --> 01:54:49,507 ♪ To bring the light ♪ 2347 01:54:51,426 --> 01:54:53,428 [vocalizing] 2348 01:54:56,723 --> 01:55:00,518 ♪ To bring the light, yeah ♪ 2349 01:55:06,858 --> 01:55:10,820 ♪ I'm sorry if this is a bore ♪ 2350 01:55:10,904 --> 01:55:14,616 ♪ But I wasn't fitting in here before ♪ 2351 01:55:14,699 --> 01:55:16,701 ♪ So I toast him tonight ♪ 2352 01:55:27,003 --> 01:55:30,256 ♪ When your trajectory was off ♪ 2353 01:55:35,678 --> 01:55:37,972 ♪ And couldn't find true north ♪ 2354 01:55:38,431 --> 01:55:39,807 ♪ Just lost ♪ 2355 01:55:44,354 --> 01:55:48,816 ♪ He would say, "Protect him at all costs" ♪ 2356 01:55:53,988 --> 01:55:57,867 ♪ Then he would hang up the call ♪ 2357 01:56:00,954 --> 01:56:06,709 ♪ But we We can still hug him now ♪ 2358 01:56:12,131 --> 01:56:15,885 ♪ After all these years ♪ 2359 01:56:21,015 --> 01:56:24,894 ♪ 'Cause when the darkness comes ♪ 2360 01:56:30,483 --> 01:56:33,778 ♪ He's our chandelier ♪ 2361 01:56:36,030 --> 01:56:38,032 ♪ To bring the light ♪ 2362 01:56:44,998 --> 01:56:48,501 ♪ To bring the light, yeah ♪ 2363 01:56:54,841 --> 01:56:58,845 ♪ I'm sorry if this is a bore ♪ 2364 01:56:58,928 --> 01:57:02,640 ♪ But I wasn't fitting in here before ♪ 2365 01:57:02,724 --> 01:57:04,976 ♪ So I toast him tonight ♪