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[ Door opens ]
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Male Counselor:
Mr. and Mrs. Green.
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I'm sorry.
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It's not good news.
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Your son Joel has had
a recurrence of his brain tumor.
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Any recurrence means
the chemotherapy has failed.
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Female Counselor: We're very
good at end-of-life care.
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Male Counselor: We're so sorry.
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[ Thunder rolls ]
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[ Rain falls ]
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[ Thunder crashes ]
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We've given you a lot
to think about already today!
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But we're going to have you
come back Monday
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and we can talk about
palliative treatment!
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Female Counselor: We're very
good at end-of-life care!
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We're very good
at managing pain!
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And masking symptoms!
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At the end of life!
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[ Thunder crashes ]
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[ Water splashes ]
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[ Child cries ]
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Ryan: Hey, guys!
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[ Crying continues ]
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Shhh.
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Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh.
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It's okay, Joely, shh.
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Don't throw
your head, buddy, don't.
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Do you hear a baby crying?
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What do you think of that?
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Is there a baby crying?
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Elijah: Oh. Why?
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Ryan: Yes, he's crying.
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Here we go!
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Bouncing around! [ Chuckles ]
Do you like that?
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[ Child laughs ]
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Elijah: Too funny!
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Ryan: Funny, yeah.
That's so funny!
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[ Joel yelling ]
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Ryan: Hi, Joel!
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Elijah: Hi, Joel!
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Joel: Dad!
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Amy: Do you see them?
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Ryan: Hi, Joel!
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Joel: Dad! [ Giggles ]
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Ryan: Hey, buddy!
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-Mwah!
-Joel: More?
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Ryan: Thank you, Elijah.
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Elijah: Mom! Dad!
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Joel: Wa-wa.
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Ryan: What do you think?
You want water?
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Want a drink?
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So what do you think, Isaac?
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He just --
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He's in the hospital
so they're taking care of him.
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And that's how
he gets his food.
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His food goes
through that tube.
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Yeah!
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Yeah.
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You want to touch him?
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-Isaac: Yeah.
-Ryan: Yeah?
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Why don't you just pat
his cheek, okay?
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-Isaac: Okay.
-Ryan: Okay.
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Pat his cheek.
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Yes.
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See? It's Joely.
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You know, he doesn't
smile very much?
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But when he saw you,
he smiled!
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That's pretty great, huh?
'Cause you're his big brother!
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Isaac: Yeah.
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Ryan: Yeah.
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You like pulling your brother?
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Isaac: Yeah.
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Ryan: Yeah?
Great job, Isaac!
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♪♪
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Ask if their refrigerator
is running!
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Joel: [ Giggles ]
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Amy: Yeah!
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He's started standing and
signing!
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Ryan: Ready? Go!
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Joel: Go, go!
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[ Ryan growls ]
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Joel: [ Laughs ] More?
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Ryan: More?! Okay, ready?
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[ Inhales sharply ]
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Joel: [ Laughs ]
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Ryan: [ Laughs ]
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-I'm recording.
-Amy: Okay, go ahead, Chris!
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Chris: Father, we thank you
for this opportunity
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to come together as a family
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and to share this meal
together.
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We just give you
all thanks, Father,
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on this Thanksgiving day,
for the restoration
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that you are making
in our family,
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for the restoration
that you are making
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in each of
our individual bodies
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on a daily basis.
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[ Joel yelling ]
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Amy: You're home!
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We missed you!
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-Ryan: I'm hungry.
-Amy: Oh, you are hungry?
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Ryan: Yeah.
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Amy: You're always hungry.
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We're tomorrow maybe gonna do
a lunch thing.
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I knew that we wouldn't enjoy
the time we had left
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if I was constantly trying
to prepare myself to lose him.
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And eventually
I came to the conclusion
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that I don't think
it would really help me
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to mourn him in advance.
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That I would much
rather live like he's living
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than live like he's dying.
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And Ryan completely
went there with me, too,
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and I think
we're both really glad
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because it wasn't 4 months,
it's been 2 1/2 years now.
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And, so, boy, to spend
2 1/2 years perpetually thinking
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your son's about to die
would be miserable.
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We've talked a lot about
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what we're going to include
in the game from our lives
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and, unlike a movie or a book,
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where you have
to have these moments
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that all string together,
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we can just say,
"Here's a moment."
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It's like these little glimpses
into our life.
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It's much more his creative
outlet than it is mine.
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There are just things
that Ryan and I have shared
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that no one else
has shared with us about Joel
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and about raising -- raising
a child that's supposed to die.
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Ryan: When people think
about what a video game is,
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it's hard for them
to wrap their head around
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what it is that we're doing.
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But I think most people
wouldn't have a problem
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with a serious film or a book
that talks about tragedy.
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Amy: You want to go swing?
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Joel: More.
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Amy: Of what?
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Ryan: I wanted to create a space
for me to talk about my son.
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And for other people to love him
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and to have the joy
that I have being his father.
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Pbht!
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Pbht!
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[ Joel giggles ]
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Amy:
It was something that I've heard
Ryan talk a little bit about,
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that he said
that he just doesn't want
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Joel's actual cry in the game.
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Which we'd
never talked about.
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He just kinda, you know,
was like
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"No, I'm not putting his cry
in the game."
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And when I heard him say that,
I thought,
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"Well, I don't know
why you wouldn't."
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Like, if we're gonna
put his laugh in the game,
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I don't know what's wrong with
putting his cry in the game.
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Ryan: I think
that subject of cancer,
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people are already sensitive
to it and they're already like,
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cringing that you would
even talk about it.
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And so I feel like crying
would be pushing it
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just over the edge.
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Amy: But if you're having --
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Okay, so, just --
so go with me here,
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you're having someone
crying in the game,
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so someone recorded
their child crying.
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Ryan: But maybe that
child was healthy.
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Amy: Does it make a difference?
Ryan: I don't know.
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Like, I think there's so much
that I don't know
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because we're doing something
that people just don't do.
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Caleb: Mom, can I do some?
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[ Joel laughs ]
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Ryan: It's like, I don't know,
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do you point a camera at
somebody on their death bed?
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Like, I don't know.
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Amy: But don't you assume
people playing the game
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will assume that's Joel's cry,
even if it's not?
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Amy: I mean, that's kinda
where I go with it.
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Ryan: Perhaps. I mean, people --
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Amy: They'll assume
it's his cry anyway.
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Ryan: People have asked me,
and I can say "No, it's not."
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Amy: So you just like
being able to say --
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Ryan:
I like being able to say "No,
that's not his cry," you know?
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And I would love to say,
"But that's his laugh."
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-Amy: Sure.
-Ryan: So...
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More bubbles!
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-Joel: Bubble!
-Ryan: Bubble!
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Ryan: Down? Okay.
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Whoa!
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Gosh, he keeps falling.
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Caleb: Elijah might have it.
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-Amy: More?
-Joel: Bu--
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Ryan: Hey! Say please?
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Caleb: But, I might be able to
turn this into butter, though.
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Ryan: More apple?
Apple?
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Caleb: I'm gonna
turn this into butter!
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Ryan: Can you say please?
Yeah. Good job!
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Caleb: I'm gonna
turn this into butter!
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Who wants to see me
turn this into butter?
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Ryan: That's not gonna
turn into butter, dude.
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Caleb: Aww.
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Ryan:
You know, I met Amy in theater
when I was 16 and she was 15.
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You know, we were doing acting
and stuff like that,
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and you approach the end of
high school and you're thinking,
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"Oh, I'm gonna go to LA and I'm
gonna be an actor," you know?
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00:11:01,895 --> 00:11:04,529
Or "I'm gonna go to New York
and [ Laughs ] be a play writer.
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00:11:04,598 --> 00:11:06,931
I'm gonna be
any of those things.
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00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,733
I'm gonna make art
for a living."
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00:11:08,835 --> 00:11:12,103
And then, you get a job,
and you get married,
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and you get a mortgage,
and you have kids,
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00:11:13,407 --> 00:11:15,607
and all of a sudden, you know,
12 years later,
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00:11:15,676 --> 00:11:22,347
and you're not doing
those things.
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00:11:22,449 --> 00:11:26,718
And yet, it wasn't until
the last four years
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00:11:26,887 --> 00:11:30,355
that I had anything real to say.
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00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:32,924
Ryan: Oh! Don't throw it!
Do you want help?
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00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:34,693
Do you want help, Joel?
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00:11:34,828 --> 00:11:38,563
Okay, I took some
reference photos of our house...
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00:11:38,665 --> 00:11:40,699
-Nat: Uh-huh.
-Ryan: ...which is messy
212
00:11:40,801 --> 00:11:43,001
but the cleanest
that you'll ever see it, so.
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00:11:43,136 --> 00:11:44,736
Nat: Is your whole house
going to be in the game?
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00:11:44,838 --> 00:11:48,106
Ryan: I would love to have
the floor plan laid out.
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00:11:48,241 --> 00:11:49,841
Let's see here.
216
00:11:49,976 --> 00:11:50,875
Both sets of boys share a room.
217
00:11:50,977 --> 00:11:54,212
So Joel and Elijah
share this room.
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00:11:54,347 --> 00:11:55,880
And Joel has the Pack 'n Play.
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00:11:56,016 --> 00:11:57,348
I also want, like,
220
00:11:57,417 --> 00:11:59,651
I do want Joel to make
an appearance in the game.
221
00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,820
I don't really want to show him
on the suffering parts
222
00:12:01,955 --> 00:12:03,922
because that might be too much,
223
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:05,690
but there might be
some moments --
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00:12:05,826 --> 00:12:07,292
when he's learning to walk
225
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,327
or when he's playing
with his brothers.
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00:12:09,396 --> 00:12:12,363
Like if we could create
like a little avatar that --
227
00:12:12,499 --> 00:12:15,200
that is cute, you know?
228
00:12:15,268 --> 00:12:16,634
Nat:
Like we talked about before,
229
00:12:16,703 --> 00:12:20,839
So often, facial expressions are
just hard to convey in a game.
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00:12:20,974 --> 00:12:22,741
Ryan: Dead eyes and waxy faces.
231
00:12:22,809 --> 00:12:24,309
This is where, like,
my limits as an artist are.
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00:12:24,444 --> 00:12:26,778
Making like a blank expression
233
00:12:26,913 --> 00:12:28,880
that doesn't look angry,
you know?
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00:12:29,049 --> 00:12:30,615
Actually, I have a model.
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00:12:30,684 --> 00:12:32,250
I was experimenting
with this idea
236
00:12:32,319 --> 00:12:35,220
of only having the lips
and the nose.
237
00:12:35,288 --> 00:12:37,655
Nat: What do you do
with the blank ocular cavities?
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00:12:37,791 --> 00:12:39,758
Ryan: Right! I don't know.
239
00:12:39,826 --> 00:12:43,962
I mean, we could also try like,
no nose, no mouth, no eyes,
240
00:12:44,030 --> 00:12:45,597
and just have eyebrows
or something.
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00:12:45,665 --> 00:12:48,133
Nat: I wonder if people
would see that character like
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00:12:48,301 --> 00:12:49,768
with the audio and stuff,
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00:12:49,836 --> 00:12:51,903
if their brain would fill it in
and it would be like
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00:12:52,005 --> 00:12:54,506
they're imagining the face,
you know?
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00:12:54,574 --> 00:12:56,574
Ryan: I think that actually
might be really effective.
246
00:12:56,676 --> 00:12:58,309
And I want to remain
kind of abstract
247
00:12:58,378 --> 00:13:04,749
because it's more about
the emotion than it is like,
248
00:13:04,818 --> 00:13:06,751
recreating reality,
you know what I mean?
249
00:13:14,494 --> 00:13:18,496
What do you think of that?
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00:13:25,272 --> 00:13:27,639
[ Duck quacks ]
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00:13:27,707 --> 00:13:28,773
Amy: Oh, guys.
Give Joel some bread.
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00:13:28,842 --> 00:13:32,477
Isaac:
Mom, he threw the whole piece!
253
00:13:32,579 --> 00:13:34,045
[ Laughter ]
254
00:13:34,114 --> 00:13:35,613
Ryan: Well, Isaac, you've got
to give him little pieces.
255
00:13:35,715 --> 00:13:36,748
He doesn't understand.
256
00:13:36,817 --> 00:13:38,883
Here you go, Joel,
here's a piece.
257
00:13:39,019 --> 00:13:41,920
Okay, now you throw it.
258
00:13:42,022 --> 00:13:44,155
Isaac: Joel's almost 5, right?
259
00:13:44,257 --> 00:13:47,458
Amy: Yeah.
260
00:13:47,527 --> 00:13:49,627
Isaac: But he --
But he can't talk.
261
00:13:49,696 --> 00:13:54,165
-Ryan: That's true.
-Amy: Yeah.
262
00:13:54,267 --> 00:13:55,800
Isaac: 3-year-olds can talk.
263
00:13:55,902 --> 00:13:57,335
Ryan: Yeah, I know.
264
00:13:57,437 --> 00:13:59,737
Isaac: Why can't Joel?
265
00:13:59,806 --> 00:14:05,410
Ryan: Well, Joel got sick right
after he turned one, um...
266
00:14:05,478 --> 00:14:06,911
Amy: It kind of slowed him down
a little bit, buddy.
267
00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:12,517
Ryan: Yeah, so he's just slower
than most kids.
268
00:14:12,586 --> 00:14:14,586
I think, eventually,
he'll catch up.
269
00:14:22,295 --> 00:14:24,295
Amy: You want one?
270
00:14:24,431 --> 00:14:29,734
Ryan: Isn't that funny?
271
00:14:29,903 --> 00:14:34,405
Amy: Hi!
272
00:14:38,812 --> 00:14:40,111
Amy: What we have, it says,
273
00:14:40,213 --> 00:14:41,412
"The father begins
to tell the story
274
00:14:41,514 --> 00:14:43,882
of the brave knight Joel
fighting the dragon, Cancer.
275
00:14:44,017 --> 00:14:45,383
The kids begin to ask questions
276
00:14:45,485 --> 00:14:49,287
and the scene shifts into
an 8-bit arcade-style game."
277
00:14:49,389 --> 00:14:52,457
Ryan: So, we have this
little character running
278
00:14:52,592 --> 00:14:53,825
and there's like -- [ Roars ]
279
00:14:53,927 --> 00:14:57,128
and there's, like, flames
coming of like, digital --
280
00:14:57,197 --> 00:14:59,864
like little 8-bit flames coming
out from behind him and stuff
281
00:14:59,933 --> 00:15:01,766
Ryan: And he's like running
and running and he's jumping
282
00:15:01,902 --> 00:15:03,034
Amy: Yeah, yeah yeah.
283
00:15:03,136 --> 00:15:04,135
Ryan: Like everybody thinks
video games are.
284
00:15:04,204 --> 00:15:05,403
Amy: And here's
what I would love.
285
00:15:05,505 --> 00:15:06,471
I know that you don't want
too many elements
286
00:15:06,539 --> 00:15:07,705
of like real game play
in the game,
287
00:15:07,807 --> 00:15:11,342
but I would love if,
in this scene, the player
288
00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:14,312
gets to where they're actually
having fun in this
289
00:15:14,447 --> 00:15:15,914
and they have a moment of like,
290
00:15:15,982 --> 00:15:18,616
"I was having fun in the middle
of this cancer game."
291
00:15:18,685 --> 00:15:21,586
People going through grief
have to do that anyway.
292
00:15:21,655 --> 00:15:25,189
Does that make you
uncomfortable?
293
00:15:25,325 --> 00:15:27,091
Ryan: [ Sighs ]
294
00:15:27,193 --> 00:15:29,527
Should we have the kids
read these parts?
295
00:15:29,596 --> 00:15:30,995
Amy: Like when we're
really recording it?
296
00:15:31,131 --> 00:15:33,665
Yeah. They want to.
297
00:15:33,767 --> 00:15:36,267
Ryan: Hey, guys!
I want to tell you a story.
298
00:15:36,336 --> 00:15:40,438
It's a story of
a very brave knight named Joel.
299
00:15:40,507 --> 00:15:42,340
Amy: [ As children ]
Joel, the baby knight?
300
00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:43,207
Ryan: Yes.
301
00:15:43,343 --> 00:15:45,443
Joel, the very brave knight
302
00:15:45,578 --> 00:15:47,946
was being chased
by a dragon named Cancer.
303
00:15:48,114 --> 00:15:49,580
Amy: 'Cause of his tumor?
304
00:15:49,716 --> 00:15:51,215
Ryan: Yeah.
305
00:15:51,384 --> 00:15:53,551
Amy: So, Joel has armor?
306
00:15:53,620 --> 00:15:55,987
Like a sword
and a shield and stuff?
307
00:15:56,122 --> 00:15:57,889
Ryan: Mm-hmm.
308
00:15:57,991 --> 00:16:00,692
And he's not the only one who
ever tried to fight this dragon.
309
00:16:00,827 --> 00:16:01,859
You know, some brave knights,
310
00:16:01,962 --> 00:16:03,594
they fought this dragon
and lost.
311
00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:06,597
And some are able
to drive the dragon off.
312
00:16:06,666 --> 00:16:08,933
And they can go home and they
can quit fighting for a while
313
00:16:09,069 --> 00:16:10,335
and their kingdom is safe.
314
00:16:10,403 --> 00:16:14,272
Amy: The bad dragon
is going to kill Joel.
315
00:16:14,407 --> 00:16:16,007
Joel is going to lose.
316
00:16:16,142 --> 00:16:17,775
Ryan: Mm, why do you say that?
317
00:16:17,944 --> 00:16:20,278
Amy: 'Cause Joel is just a baby!
318
00:16:20,413 --> 00:16:22,981
Babies can't kill dragons.
319
00:16:23,049 --> 00:16:25,883
Amy: [ As herself ]
You're right.
320
00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:27,518
A baby can't kill a dragon.
321
00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:30,188
But that's the best part
of the story.
322
00:16:30,323 --> 00:16:31,556
God fights for Joel!
323
00:16:31,658 --> 00:16:34,826
He fights that dragon, Cancer,
right with Joel.
324
00:16:34,894 --> 00:16:36,961
And we know that God can win,
even if Joel can't.
325
00:16:37,063 --> 00:16:41,699
Ryan: [ As children ] Well,
what about Tim from church, Mom?
326
00:16:41,768 --> 00:16:44,969
He died from cancer.
Wasn't God fighting for him?
327
00:16:45,071 --> 00:16:48,940
Amy: It may have seemed like the
dragon won because Tim died,
328
00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:50,708
but we know
that Tim is in Heaven
329
00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:54,312
and that he is with God
and that God is so proud of him.
330
00:16:57,650 --> 00:17:01,419
-Ryan: It's good.
-Amy: You like it?
331
00:17:01,521 --> 00:17:02,253
-Ryan: I do.
-Amy: Are we gonna do it?
332
00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:05,356
Ryan: [ Sighs ] I think so.
333
00:17:05,458 --> 00:17:07,625
Amy: Ah! Yes!
I really like this scene.
334
00:17:07,694 --> 00:17:10,194
And I was worried you wanted
the whole thing to be poetry.
335
00:17:10,263 --> 00:17:12,463
And I think the poetry
is really effective,
336
00:17:12,532 --> 00:17:13,731
but an hour of poetry
is not fun.
337
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,633
Ryan: What if it doesn't --
[ Sighs ] Whatever.
338
00:17:15,702 --> 00:17:16,701
-Amy: But I love you.
-Ryan: Love you, too.
339
00:17:16,803 --> 00:17:18,302
Amy: Thanks for working
on this with me.
340
00:17:18,371 --> 00:17:20,004
-Ryan: It's good, baby.
-Amy: I like that you like it.
341
00:17:20,106 --> 00:17:23,107
Ryan: No, it is good, and I like
these -- I like these scenes.
342
00:17:23,276 --> 00:17:25,376
Amy: Okay. Gimme a kiss.
343
00:17:25,545 --> 00:17:27,378
Ryan: Oh...okay.
344
00:17:31,684 --> 00:17:34,719
Amy: We didn't fight at all!
Ryan: It was close, though.
345
00:17:34,854 --> 00:17:40,091
I saw it on your face.
346
00:17:40,193 --> 00:17:41,459
Hey, Joel!
Can I blow on your belly?
347
00:17:41,528 --> 00:17:42,927
[ Inhales sharply ]
I'm gonna blow on your belly!
348
00:17:43,063 --> 00:17:43,961
Ready?
349
00:17:44,030 --> 00:17:46,130
-Joel: Pbht!
-Ryan: Pbht!
350
00:17:46,199 --> 00:17:49,801
That's right! Ready?
[ Inhales sharply ]
351
00:17:49,969 --> 00:17:51,436
[ Joel giggles ]
352
00:17:51,571 --> 00:17:52,203
Ryan: Pbht!
353
00:17:52,338 --> 00:17:54,405
[ Joel laughs ]
354
00:17:54,541 --> 00:17:55,073
Joel: Daddy.
355
00:17:55,241 --> 00:17:56,908
Ryan: Want more?
356
00:17:57,043 --> 00:17:58,776
More?
357
00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:00,044
Joel: Want more!
358
00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:03,748
[ Growls ]
359
00:18:03,883 --> 00:18:05,516
Ryan: There you are!
360
00:18:05,652 --> 00:18:06,284
Joel: Where'd it go?
361
00:18:06,419 --> 00:18:08,019
Ryan: Where'd it go?
362
00:18:08,121 --> 00:18:08,586
Ryan: [ Whispering ]
Oh, there it is.
363
00:18:08,688 --> 00:18:10,154
Joel: Again!
364
00:18:10,290 --> 00:18:12,090
Ryan: [ Inhales sharply ] Pbht!
365
00:18:12,225 --> 00:18:14,625
Joel: Where'd it go?
366
00:18:14,761 --> 00:18:18,663
Ryan: I don't know.
367
00:18:18,798 --> 00:18:20,565
Joel: Where'd it go?
368
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:27,171
[ Joel laughs ]
369
00:18:27,273 --> 00:18:29,474
Jon: I've got like 20 versions
of each.
370
00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:30,942
[ Laughs ]
371
00:18:31,044 --> 00:18:35,413
[ Joel's laughter continues ]
372
00:18:55,802 --> 00:18:59,637
Josh:
If the rest of the game plays
exactly like it does now...
373
00:18:59,772 --> 00:19:00,605
Ryan: Mm-hmm.
374
00:19:00,673 --> 00:19:02,273
Josh: ...you're just exploring
375
00:19:02,342 --> 00:19:05,843
and experiencing narrative
by moving around
376
00:19:05,945 --> 00:19:07,011
and clicking on icons.
377
00:19:07,147 --> 00:19:08,813
Ryan: Right.
378
00:19:08,882 --> 00:19:11,149
Josh: So does that mean
you would be clicking on icons?
379
00:19:11,251 --> 00:19:12,517
Does that mean, you know,
380
00:19:12,585 --> 00:19:13,918
how does that action
actually...
381
00:19:13,987 --> 00:19:19,323
Ryan: Well, I think everything
needs to be accessible
382
00:19:19,392 --> 00:19:21,225
through point-and-click
at this point.
383
00:19:21,327 --> 00:19:22,527
You know?
Or if there's certain things
384
00:19:22,595 --> 00:19:24,328
that you have to do,
like with regularity,
385
00:19:24,397 --> 00:19:26,998
like if you have to feed him
through an NG tube,
386
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:28,766
like you couldn't do it
too fast,
387
00:19:28,835 --> 00:19:32,737
otherwise it would pop off
the tube and squirt everywhere.
388
00:19:32,805 --> 00:19:37,375
We even still have a stain
on our ceiling.
389
00:19:37,443 --> 00:19:38,743
But we don't --
we don't remove it
390
00:19:38,845 --> 00:19:40,912
'cause it just reminds us
of that period of time
391
00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:42,747
when we were just like
four months of feeding tubes.
392
00:19:42,815 --> 00:19:45,316
Amy: We don't remove it
'cause we're lazy!
393
00:19:45,385 --> 00:19:46,684
Ryan: No, I don't! I've thought
about wiping it down.
394
00:19:46,786 --> 00:19:48,219
No, I've thought
about wiping it down.
395
00:19:48,288 --> 00:19:49,554
I'm like "No,
I'm not gonna wipe it down!"
396
00:19:49,656 --> 00:19:51,289
Amy: I like how noble
your lack of cleaning is.
397
00:19:51,424 --> 00:19:52,623
Ryan: I'm not going to.
398
00:19:52,725 --> 00:19:53,524
Amy: Like, "It's because
it's an emotional --
399
00:19:53,660 --> 00:19:55,026
Ryan: It's a mark!
400
00:19:55,094 --> 00:19:56,027
Amy: It's because you didn't
want to get up on the ceiling
401
00:19:56,196 --> 00:19:57,495
and wipe it off.
402
00:19:57,564 --> 00:19:58,930
Ryan: It's an emotional stain,
babe!
403
00:19:58,998 --> 00:19:59,897
-Amy: Whatever. [ Laughs ]
-Ryan: It's an emotional stain!
404
00:20:00,033 --> 00:20:01,032
Amy: It matches your heart.
405
00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:05,169
Ryan: Yes.
406
00:20:05,238 --> 00:20:09,173
Okay, guys, so we're gonna do
this scene.
407
00:20:09,275 --> 00:20:11,075
And this is something
that Mommy wrote,
408
00:20:11,177 --> 00:20:12,510
that was kinda similar
to a conversation
409
00:20:12,645 --> 00:20:15,513
you guys had a long time ago.
410
00:20:15,582 --> 00:20:17,748
Ryan: We don't remember it
word-for-word.
411
00:20:17,884 --> 00:20:18,883
Okay?
412
00:20:18,952 --> 00:20:20,351
So what we did was,
we wrote it out
413
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:21,652
and so where you see
where it says "Dad?"
414
00:20:21,721 --> 00:20:23,854
-Caleb: Mm-hmm.
-Ryan: I'm gonna say that line.
415
00:20:23,923 --> 00:20:26,257
Caleb: I'll say "Caleb"
and Isaac says "Isaac."
416
00:20:26,326 --> 00:20:27,491
Ryan: Right.
Do you see that Isaac?
417
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,026
-Isaac: [ Whispering ] Yes.
-Ryan: So, like --
418
00:20:29,095 --> 00:20:31,028
Caleb: Don't get embarrassed,
okay?
419
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:32,663
Ryan: Well, we won't
worry about that
420
00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:34,865
because we're just gonna like,
we're gonna sit on the couch,
421
00:20:34,934 --> 00:20:38,336
and we're kind of like,
pretend we're in bed right now.
422
00:20:38,471 --> 00:20:41,105
Okay?
423
00:20:41,274 --> 00:20:43,307
Okay, you ready?
424
00:20:43,409 --> 00:20:45,309
Ryan: Hey, guys!
I want to tell you a story.
425
00:20:45,378 --> 00:20:49,914
It's the story of a very brave
knight named Joel.
426
00:20:50,083 --> 00:20:51,749
[ Whispering ] Isaac, you say --
427
00:20:51,884 --> 00:20:52,516
Isaac: Joel, the baby knight?
428
00:20:52,652 --> 00:20:54,485
Ryan: Yeah! Say it again.
429
00:20:54,554 --> 00:20:56,220
-Isaac: Joel, the baby knight?
-Ryan: Yeah!
430
00:20:56,356 --> 00:20:58,556
Joel, the very brave knight
431
00:20:58,691 --> 00:21:03,094
was being chased
by a dragon named Cancer.
432
00:21:03,229 --> 00:21:04,195
Caleb: Because of his tumor?
433
00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:07,598
Ryan: [ Laughs ] Yes.
434
00:21:07,734 --> 00:21:10,201
[ Whispers ] Isaac?
435
00:21:10,303 --> 00:21:15,773
Isaac: Well, that dragon
is going to kill Joel.
436
00:21:15,908 --> 00:21:17,708
Joel is going to lose.
437
00:21:17,844 --> 00:21:18,643
Ryan: Why do you say that?
438
00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,583
What do you think of that?
439
00:21:25,718 --> 00:21:26,917
Wait, hold on.
440
00:21:26,986 --> 00:21:29,520
Wait. Hold on, Caleb.
What do you think of that?
441
00:21:33,026 --> 00:21:34,492
Does that make you sad?
442
00:21:34,627 --> 00:21:35,593
Isaac: No.
443
00:21:35,662 --> 00:21:36,927
Ryan: Do you not want to read
anymore?
444
00:21:37,096 --> 00:21:38,129
Isaac: I still --
445
00:21:38,264 --> 00:21:40,197
Ryan: Okay. Start here.
446
00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:41,766
"Because Joel is a baby..."
447
00:21:41,834 --> 00:21:47,538
Isaac: Because Joel is a baby
and babies can't kill dragons.
448
00:21:50,376 --> 00:21:53,010
Ryan: Okay.
That was pretty good, guys.
449
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:53,577
Now should we listen
to some of it?
450
00:21:53,713 --> 00:21:55,246
Caleb: Yeah.
451
00:21:55,315 --> 00:21:59,250
Ryan: You guys did
a really good job.
452
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,819
Ryan: But some are able
to drive the dragon off.
453
00:22:01,888 --> 00:22:04,255
And they can go home and they
can quit fighting for a while
454
00:22:04,357 --> 00:22:05,589
and their kingdom is safe.
455
00:22:05,658 --> 00:22:07,224
You know, Joel has been
fighting the dragon
456
00:22:07,327 --> 00:22:08,326
for a long time, huh?
457
00:22:08,428 --> 00:22:10,328
Isaac: A long time?
458
00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:12,797
Ryan: Not a question.
459
00:22:12,899 --> 00:22:13,898
Isaac: A long time.
460
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,800
Ryan: A long time.
461
00:22:15,868 --> 00:22:18,336
Like you're like, have you ever
been in the car so long
462
00:22:18,404 --> 00:22:21,172
you're like,"Ugh,
I'm in the car soooo long."
463
00:22:21,307 --> 00:22:23,674
Caleb: Like that.
464
00:22:23,810 --> 00:22:25,076
Isaac: Because...
465
00:22:25,144 --> 00:22:26,744
Ryan: You say,
"Well, that dragon..."
466
00:22:26,813 --> 00:22:31,315
Isaac: Well, that dragon
is going to kill Joel.
467
00:22:31,417 --> 00:22:34,552
Joel is going to lose.
468
00:22:50,403 --> 00:22:52,636
Ryan: I feel pretty weary
right now, emotionally.
469
00:22:52,772 --> 00:22:54,038
[ Laughs ] You know?
470
00:22:54,107 --> 00:22:58,676
Umm, it's interesting because
when you're creating art,
471
00:22:58,778 --> 00:23:00,444
there's a certain
level of abstraction.
472
00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:02,680
It's not real.
473
00:23:02,782 --> 00:23:06,117
And so even in the midst
of working on a game
474
00:23:06,185 --> 00:23:08,719
about my son,
who's terminally ill,
475
00:23:08,888 --> 00:23:10,788
there's a certain escape.
476
00:23:10,857 --> 00:23:12,323
[ Laughs ] And that's what
kind of ironic about it, right?
477
00:23:12,392 --> 00:23:18,362
It's because a lot of times,
people play games to escape.
478
00:23:18,431 --> 00:23:21,165
And even making a game
allows me to escape, but...
479
00:23:21,334 --> 00:23:25,736
you can't escape forever.
480
00:24:14,987 --> 00:24:18,088
Joel: Da-da!
481
00:24:18,224 --> 00:24:20,491
Ryan: [ Laughs ] Okay, go!
482
00:24:20,626 --> 00:24:22,059
Joel: Ma-ma-ma!
483
00:24:22,195 --> 00:24:24,195
Ryan: No? Okay!
484
00:24:30,203 --> 00:24:31,535
Doctor: He's still having
some cough, Wanda said.
485
00:24:31,637 --> 00:24:33,871
-Ryan: Uh, a little bit.
-Doctor: Okay.
486
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:34,972
Ryan: But he always has a cough.
487
00:24:35,107 --> 00:24:36,507
Doctor: Okay. Any runny nose?
488
00:24:36,609 --> 00:24:38,242
Ryan: I don't think so.
Runny nose, babe?
489
00:24:38,377 --> 00:24:41,045
Amy: No. No more than we've seen
or we're used to used to.
490
00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:42,680
Doctor: And no fevers?
491
00:24:42,849 --> 00:24:45,149
Ryan: No fevers.
492
00:24:45,284 --> 00:24:49,019
[ Humming ]
493
00:25:23,155 --> 00:25:27,324
[ Monitor beeping ]
494
00:25:45,311 --> 00:25:49,246
He's just -- I don't know.
495
00:25:49,348 --> 00:25:52,349
He's just suspended there,
you know, asleep, and...
496
00:25:56,689 --> 00:25:57,621
It's easy to think about it
in theory
497
00:25:57,690 --> 00:26:01,191
until you actually see it,
you know?
498
00:26:01,294 --> 00:26:02,826
And I've been able to see it
a couple of times
499
00:26:02,962 --> 00:26:04,962
but you don't get used to it.
500
00:26:05,031 --> 00:26:10,267
He's just so, I don't know,
helpless up there, you know?
501
00:26:14,006 --> 00:26:16,574
I hate this room.
502
00:26:16,676 --> 00:26:19,677
I didn't used to.
503
00:26:19,745 --> 00:26:24,682
For, um, for a moment,
it was an adventure.
504
00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:30,054
I was cast as the compassionate
and caring father,
505
00:26:30,156 --> 00:26:32,089
holed up with his fragile son
506
00:26:32,158 --> 00:26:34,124
in a small cleft
in the rocks,
507
00:26:34,193 --> 00:26:39,597
the storm raging, waves ripping
at the sharp black rocks below
508
00:26:39,665 --> 00:26:43,801
and enveloped in my arms,
he feels safe.
509
00:26:43,869 --> 00:26:49,840
And I'm holding him firmly,
trying not to slip.
510
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:54,645
Because if you hold tight
enough, nothing will take him.
511
00:26:54,747 --> 00:26:59,350
Right?
512
00:27:00,586 --> 00:27:01,986
Amy: Are you gonna wake him up?
513
00:27:02,121 --> 00:27:03,754
That's how he sleeps!
514
00:27:03,889 --> 00:27:04,955
Oh! He's already awake!
515
00:27:05,024 --> 00:27:07,524
So that was
when he was 1 year old.
516
00:27:07,593 --> 00:27:10,594
About a year later,
when he was 2.
517
00:27:10,663 --> 00:27:15,165
And this is probably
six months after that.
518
00:27:15,301 --> 00:27:16,166
And I don't even remember --
519
00:27:16,302 --> 00:27:18,569
He was probably 3 for this one.
520
00:27:18,671 --> 00:27:21,038
And then we decided,
once we had the full set,
521
00:27:21,173 --> 00:27:23,507
that we had nothing else
to give so we went ahead
522
00:27:23,609 --> 00:27:24,541
and let him put his butt
on the wall.
523
00:27:24,644 --> 00:27:27,011
They let us put his butt
on the wall.
524
00:27:27,146 --> 00:27:29,079
Ryan: Let him. They let us.
525
00:27:29,215 --> 00:27:30,280
Amy: So...
526
00:27:30,349 --> 00:27:31,615
Then we said
we had the complete set
527
00:27:31,684 --> 00:27:34,284
and he could never come back,
but we're back anyway.
528
00:27:34,353 --> 00:27:37,054
-So it didn't work. [ Laughs ]
-Ryan: Didn't take.
529
00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:39,723
Amy: What do you see?
Go ahead!
530
00:27:48,968 --> 00:27:51,035
-Joel: More!
-Ryan: More what?
531
00:27:51,103 --> 00:27:53,637
-Joel: More.
-Ryan: Tickle?
532
00:27:53,739 --> 00:27:56,473
Joel: Ba-ba-ba-ba!
533
00:27:56,542 --> 00:27:58,876
Ryan: Yeah?
[ Inhales sharply ]
534
00:27:58,978 --> 00:27:59,743
Ryan: Ahhh!
535
00:27:59,845 --> 00:28:00,744
No?
536
00:28:00,846 --> 00:28:04,915
Joel: Ba-ba!
537
00:28:05,017 --> 00:28:08,886
Ryan: What does this mean? Up?
538
00:28:09,021 --> 00:28:09,753
Ryan: Itsy bitsy spider?
539
00:28:09,855 --> 00:28:12,489
Joel: Ba-ba!
540
00:28:12,591 --> 00:28:13,390
Ryan: Spider?
541
00:28:13,459 --> 00:28:16,760
Isaac: Spider! Yeah, spider!
542
00:28:16,862 --> 00:28:18,395
Ryan: Yeah.
543
00:28:18,464 --> 00:28:25,369
♪ The itsy bitsy spider
went up the water spout ♪
544
00:28:25,438 --> 00:28:31,108
♪ Down came the rain
and washed the spider out ♪
545
00:28:31,243 --> 00:28:33,143
Man: Can you do it real quick?
546
00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:36,880
Ryan: Um, so hand position
for "more" is like this.
547
00:28:37,016 --> 00:28:39,983
Go like this. "More."
548
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,852
Man: Together?
549
00:28:41,921 --> 00:28:44,354
Ryan: And while we're at it,
let's do a few more.
550
00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:46,256
This is gonna be "brother."
551
00:28:50,162 --> 00:28:52,830
Ryan: If you're watch any videos
with babies with hand signs,
552
00:28:52,965 --> 00:28:54,865
they're very sloppy.
553
00:28:54,934 --> 00:28:59,069
You kinda have to know
what you're looking for
554
00:28:59,138 --> 00:29:01,705
And you could also do
a "no more."
555
00:29:01,774 --> 00:29:05,042
-Man: "No more" is shaking?
-Ryan: Mm-hmm.
556
00:29:30,603 --> 00:29:34,371
So I wanted
to reflect that here.
557
00:29:40,846 --> 00:29:42,713
And probably just exaggerate
that a little bit more.
558
00:29:42,815 --> 00:29:45,549
Man: Wait, so he's just
going, like, up and down?
559
00:29:45,618 --> 00:29:47,084
Ray: You know, just --
[ Imitates giggling ]
560
00:29:47,219 --> 00:29:47,651
Man: Okay.
561
00:30:02,334 --> 00:30:04,334
Amy: Yay, Joel!
562
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:10,073
You did such a good job!
563
00:30:14,847 --> 00:30:16,180
Joel: Go!
564
00:30:16,282 --> 00:30:18,782
[ Laughs ]
565
00:30:23,355 --> 00:30:24,454
Amy: Hey, Ryan!
566
00:30:24,523 --> 00:30:26,423
I'm on my way home
from the clinic
567
00:30:26,492 --> 00:30:28,692
and probably won't be
too much longer
568
00:30:28,761 --> 00:30:30,427
but there's a little bit
of traffic.
569
00:30:30,496 --> 00:30:34,231
Um, but you know how they
celebrate off-treatment day?
570
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:36,533
So on someone's last day,
they always like,
571
00:30:36,602 --> 00:30:38,669
bring them a cake
and they sing to them like,
572
00:30:38,737 --> 00:30:41,338
♪ "Happy off-therapy day
to you!" ♪
573
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,874
Anyway, that happened today.
574
00:30:43,976 --> 00:30:46,109
I mean, it happens a lot.
575
00:30:46,212 --> 00:30:48,679
But today, I cried.
576
00:30:48,747 --> 00:30:52,449
I just really want
that day so bad, you know?
577
00:31:08,968 --> 00:31:14,638
Designer: My role a lot of times
is to build the game in 3D.
578
00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:16,306
I have to play through it
over and over and over again.
579
00:31:16,475 --> 00:31:18,709
So, whenever Ryan speaks,
580
00:31:18,811 --> 00:31:20,210
I added the ability
to press a button
581
00:31:20,346 --> 00:31:22,079
to skip that part.
582
00:31:22,147 --> 00:31:25,082
And what surprised me
about that was,
583
00:31:25,217 --> 00:31:27,918
there's a certain
emotional feeling
584
00:31:27,987 --> 00:31:32,356
that you get from just skipping
the audio over and over again.
585
00:31:32,424 --> 00:31:34,024
It almost feels
like you're trying
586
00:31:34,093 --> 00:31:39,997
to skip past
the soul of the game.
587
00:31:40,099 --> 00:31:44,501
I can only do it so much before,
like, needing to take a break.
588
00:31:44,603 --> 00:31:48,338
Just because emotionally
it's very odd.
589
00:32:07,726 --> 00:32:08,392
Amy: Over and over again,
I have my doubts about, like,
590
00:32:08,494 --> 00:32:10,928
"Can people love Joel?"
591
00:32:11,063 --> 00:32:12,362
And I just know, like,
592
00:32:12,431 --> 00:32:15,565
they can't love Joel
the way we love him.
593
00:32:15,634 --> 00:32:18,168
But I think
that's the big experiment.
594
00:32:18,237 --> 00:32:20,070
They're gonna push
the boundaries a little bit
595
00:32:20,172 --> 00:32:22,873
to say, "What can you experience
emotionally in a video game?
596
00:32:23,008 --> 00:32:26,243
How can you connect?"
597
00:32:31,550 --> 00:32:34,251
It will have to be love itself
and not the love of Joel
598
00:32:34,353 --> 00:32:37,688
that makes this game work,
I think.
599
00:33:05,584 --> 00:33:09,152
Ryan: [ Laughs ] Hi, buddy!
600
00:33:09,254 --> 00:33:12,723
[ Laughter ]
601
00:33:12,858 --> 00:33:13,523
Isaac: Can I try?
602
00:33:13,592 --> 00:33:15,058
Caleb: Let Joel try.
603
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,661
Isaac: Joely!
604
00:33:17,796 --> 00:33:19,730
Caleb: You ready?
605
00:33:19,832 --> 00:33:24,701
Ryan: I think in America,
we're very afraid of death.
606
00:33:28,307 --> 00:33:29,873
We don't like to talk about it.
607
00:33:30,009 --> 00:33:33,744
We hide it behind closed doors.
608
00:33:37,249 --> 00:33:38,782
I think that we're so afraid
of death
609
00:33:38,851 --> 00:33:44,054
because we don't really believe
that there's life after death.
610
00:33:44,156 --> 00:33:45,689
And I think
that when you're brought
611
00:33:45,824 --> 00:33:48,325
to that moment of realizing,
612
00:33:48,394 --> 00:33:53,597
"Do I really believe in heaven
or don't I?"
613
00:33:53,665 --> 00:33:57,200
I think being faced
with Joel's demise,
614
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:58,835
I kind of had to come
to that point of --
615
00:33:58,971 --> 00:34:02,072
Do we really believe in heaven?
616
00:34:11,050 --> 00:34:17,954
[ Joel coughs ]
617
00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:19,256
I think that allows us
618
00:34:19,358 --> 00:34:24,628
to come face-to-face
with the fear of death...
619
00:34:24,763 --> 00:34:30,133
...and kind of move past it.
620
00:34:30,202 --> 00:34:31,902
And that's something
that I want to articulate.
621
00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:33,570
I want to bring players
face-to-face
622
00:34:33,739 --> 00:34:36,406
with that shadow of death
623
00:34:36,508 --> 00:34:39,342
and ask them
what they really believe.
624
00:34:47,219 --> 00:34:48,452
Joel: Da-da!
625
00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:49,786
Da-da-da!
626
00:34:49,922 --> 00:34:52,289
Ryan: Hi, Joel! I found you!
627
00:34:52,458 --> 00:34:55,759
Amy: He's so excited to see you!
628
00:34:55,894 --> 00:34:57,227
Ryan: Ahh. Okay, okay, okay.
629
00:34:57,296 --> 00:34:59,396
Amy: So is this -- what kind
of paper is this in India?
630
00:34:59,465 --> 00:35:02,299
Ryan: This is actually part
of the India Times Network.
631
00:35:02,367 --> 00:35:03,467
Amy: Whoa!
What are all of those?
632
00:35:03,535 --> 00:35:04,434
Ryan: It's just a bunch
of Japanese links.
633
00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:07,370
People like keep picking it up.
634
00:35:07,439 --> 00:35:11,408
I mean I wonder if, like, in
other countries this is more...
635
00:35:11,477 --> 00:35:13,977
They see games in a different
light than they do in America.
636
00:35:14,113 --> 00:35:15,345
Amy: Like they're --
637
00:35:15,414 --> 00:35:16,947
Ryan: Like they're more
accepting of seeing it
638
00:35:17,015 --> 00:35:19,282
as something
culturally significant.
639
00:35:19,418 --> 00:35:20,884
It says "That Dragon, Cancer,"
640
00:35:20,953 --> 00:35:23,854
a game rapidly gathering pace
and respect in the indie scene,
641
00:35:23,989 --> 00:35:24,721
may still be very --
642
00:35:24,857 --> 00:35:26,590
[ Joel coughs ]
643
00:35:26,658 --> 00:35:27,858
It still may be very early
in its development
644
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,461
but has the makings of something
unusual and interesting.
645
00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:34,531
"Asking Green about
the reasoning or indeed wisdom
646
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:35,866
of bringing
these things together
647
00:35:36,034 --> 00:35:37,367
and he calmly underlines
648
00:35:37,503 --> 00:35:39,402
that this is what
creative people have always done
649
00:35:39,471 --> 00:35:41,104
when faced with
the insurmountable -- create.
650
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:42,639
Amy: Hmm, that's good.
651
00:35:42,741 --> 00:35:45,709
"That Dragon, Cancer"
is already a big success.
652
00:35:45,777 --> 00:35:48,311
I'm looking forward
to see how it develops
653
00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:49,579
in the long journey
towards release
654
00:35:49,648 --> 00:35:51,281
and find myself
praying with Green
655
00:35:51,383 --> 00:35:54,017
for his son both in the game
and in real life.
656
00:35:54,086 --> 00:35:55,685
-Ryan: Hmm.
-Amy: Does it have comments?
657
00:35:55,787 --> 00:35:59,422
Ryan: "I keep hearing about this
game and it keeps annoying me
658
00:35:59,525 --> 00:36:01,825
that Joel's dad is turning
his struggle into a piece
659
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:02,926
of interactive entertainment.
660
00:36:03,061 --> 00:36:05,428
It's like making a video
of your kid dying
661
00:36:05,564 --> 00:36:07,297
and then posting it on YouTube.
662
00:36:07,399 --> 00:36:08,832
I'm sure the guy
has convinced himself
663
00:36:08,967 --> 00:36:10,467
that he's got good intentions,
664
00:36:10,536 --> 00:36:12,736
though I notice he's not yet
thought of any specific ones,
665
00:36:12,804 --> 00:36:16,673
but I have to say that I feel
he's just...himself
666
00:36:16,742 --> 00:36:18,208
and this whole endeavor is just
self-indulgence on his part."
667
00:36:18,377 --> 00:36:25,382
Amy: [ Sighs ] People are harsh.
668
00:36:25,551 --> 00:36:26,983
Ryan: Hm.
669
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:29,319
You ready?
670
00:36:29,388 --> 00:36:32,822
-Jon: Yes, we are.
-Ryan: Okay. How are my levels?
671
00:36:32,925 --> 00:36:34,491
Jon: Back up three inches
for me.
672
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,563
Ryan:
Fear is cancer's preservative.
673
00:36:39,731 --> 00:36:40,730
Fear is cancer --
674
00:36:40,866 --> 00:36:42,232
Fear is --
675
00:36:42,367 --> 00:36:46,736
Fear is cancer's preservative.
676
00:36:46,872 --> 00:36:50,674
Cancer's embalming oil.
677
00:36:50,809 --> 00:36:51,875
[ Scoffs ]
678
00:36:51,944 --> 00:36:56,680
And you, 'o accuser,
are fear's oil salesman.
679
00:36:58,584 --> 00:36:59,849
-Jon: So, Ryan.
680
00:36:59,918 --> 00:37:01,351
-Here's a thought.
-Ryan: Hmm?
681
00:37:01,420 --> 00:37:04,588
Jon: If you could like put
your hands around the neck...
682
00:37:04,756 --> 00:37:05,722
Ryan: Yeah! Yup.
683
00:37:05,791 --> 00:37:08,291
-Jon: ...of cancer --
-Ryan: Yeah.
684
00:37:08,393 --> 00:37:09,826
Jon: It's like you
got it pinned down and --
685
00:37:09,962 --> 00:37:11,161
Ryan: Yeah.
686
00:37:11,263 --> 00:37:12,629
Jon: You're really gonna
take your time with it.
687
00:37:12,698 --> 00:37:14,130
Ryan: [ Laughs ] Yeah, while
I, like, collapse his throat.
688
00:37:14,266 --> 00:37:16,399
Jon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
689
00:37:16,501 --> 00:37:18,034
Like, you're --
like you're enjoying it.
690
00:37:18,203 --> 00:37:21,071
Ryan: [ Chuckles, sighs ]
691
00:37:21,139 --> 00:37:24,207
Jon: Hey, you know
what I want you to do?
692
00:37:24,309 --> 00:37:26,142
Squeeze the...out of this
while you do that.
693
00:37:26,278 --> 00:37:28,845
Ryan: Fear. I'm liable to cry.
694
00:37:28,981 --> 00:37:30,146
Jon: Choke that pillow.
695
00:37:30,282 --> 00:37:34,584
Ryan: [ Laughs, clears throat ]
696
00:37:34,653 --> 00:37:39,956
Ryan:
Fear is cancer's preservative.
697
00:37:40,092 --> 00:37:43,159
Cancer's embalming oil.
698
00:37:43,228 --> 00:37:47,564
And you, 'o accuser,
are fear's oil salesman
699
00:37:47,699 --> 00:37:50,166
because you're a snake.
700
00:37:50,335 --> 00:37:53,203
You're a serpent.
701
00:37:53,272 --> 00:37:56,072
A dragon with snuffed-out coal
on his breath,
702
00:37:56,174 --> 00:37:58,775
molting, talons broken
from the struggle
703
00:37:58,910 --> 00:38:01,511
to free yourself
of your own skin.
704
00:38:01,647 --> 00:38:07,217
You, 'o accuser,
are fear's oil salesman.
705
00:38:07,319 --> 00:38:10,654
And you, 'o accuser,
are oi--
706
00:38:10,789 --> 00:38:12,022
Fear's -- [ Clears throat ]
707
00:38:12,090 --> 00:38:15,458
And you, 'o accuser,
are oil's --
708
00:38:15,594 --> 00:38:16,693
[ Groans ]
709
00:38:16,795 --> 00:38:20,397
And you, 'o accuser,
are fear's oil salesman.
710
00:38:20,499 --> 00:38:25,869
And you, 'o accuser,
are fear's oil salesman.
711
00:38:25,937 --> 00:38:28,271
[ Crying ]
'Cause you're a snake.
712
00:38:30,242 --> 00:38:32,142
You're a serpent.
713
00:38:34,713 --> 00:38:38,348
You're a dragon with
snuffed-out coal on its breath.
714
00:38:43,288 --> 00:38:50,527
[ Sniffling ]
715
00:38:50,662 --> 00:38:52,662
Hold on. [ Cries ]
716
00:39:00,605 --> 00:39:01,271
Jon: I think we'll be able
to put it together,
717
00:39:01,406 --> 00:39:04,741
from that stuff on.
718
00:39:18,757 --> 00:39:20,790
Ryan: Okay.
719
00:39:23,528 --> 00:39:26,663
It's like I'm disappointed
with God.
720
00:39:26,765 --> 00:39:29,265
-I'm angry at the devil.
-Jon: Mm-hmm.
721
00:39:29,368 --> 00:39:31,634
-Ryan: You know?
Jon: Mm-hmm.
722
00:40:43,341 --> 00:40:46,142
Ryan: Amy has this way
723
00:40:46,211 --> 00:40:49,579
of being able
to keep her head above water.
724
00:40:49,648 --> 00:40:52,782
And a lot of times
when we get hard news,
725
00:40:52,851 --> 00:40:56,252
she's very quick to assume
everything's going to work out.
726
00:40:56,388 --> 00:40:58,755
And I just think that that is
727
00:40:58,824 --> 00:41:01,357
an important aspect
of our battle with Joel is,
728
00:41:01,493 --> 00:41:04,461
in the middle of drowning,
729
00:41:04,596 --> 00:41:06,596
choosing rest.
730
00:41:45,403 --> 00:41:49,172
[ Indistinct talking ]
731
00:42:29,548 --> 00:42:32,015
Ryan: This will be a kind
of an autobiographical game
732
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:32,849
about our life fighting cancer.
733
00:42:33,018 --> 00:42:35,251
Man: Wow.
734
00:42:35,387 --> 00:42:37,654
Ryan: And then that's him.
735
00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:38,421
That was taken
a couple of weeks ago.
736
00:42:38,590 --> 00:42:40,223
He's 4 1/2, so...
737
00:42:40,392 --> 00:42:42,559
Man: That's really brave.
738
00:42:42,727 --> 00:42:46,195
Ryan: Thank you.
739
00:42:46,298 --> 00:42:47,931
Josh: A lot of the effect
is through the audio
740
00:42:47,999 --> 00:42:49,866
so that's why
we suggest headphones.
741
00:42:50,001 --> 00:42:54,504
Woman: Gotcha.
742
00:43:31,242 --> 00:43:34,077
Joel: Go! [ Laughs ]
743
00:43:35,213 --> 00:43:36,946
Ryan: It's kind of weird
to say it but like,
744
00:43:37,015 --> 00:43:38,047
fighting cancer
is kind of a game.
745
00:43:38,116 --> 00:43:39,315
You know, It's like
a game in our life
746
00:43:39,384 --> 00:43:44,354
where we're trying
to find just the right formula
747
00:43:44,456 --> 00:43:47,657
to, like, to-to save our life,
you know?
748
00:43:47,792 --> 00:43:49,025
To save my son's life.
749
00:43:49,194 --> 00:43:50,760
You know? And that's a mechanic.
750
00:43:50,829 --> 00:43:53,129
And so, like,
when you start seeing the world
751
00:43:53,264 --> 00:43:54,631
through the lens
of "What are mechanics?"
752
00:43:54,733 --> 00:43:57,166
and "What happens
when mechanics fail?"
753
00:43:57,235 --> 00:43:58,801
Like, I think you see
the potential
754
00:43:58,937 --> 00:44:01,537
of what games can be.
755
00:44:01,606 --> 00:44:03,473
Amy: Hey, babe, just got done
at the doctor.
756
00:44:03,541 --> 00:44:07,276
Umm, now they think that maybe
he's throwing up all the time
757
00:44:07,345 --> 00:44:09,345
because he has acid reflux,
so...
758
00:44:09,414 --> 00:44:12,281
Ryan: Sunset looks pretty
from here.
759
00:44:12,350 --> 00:44:16,486
Better than the muted colors
of this hospital.
760
00:44:16,588 --> 00:44:20,523
Ryan: He won't stop crying.
761
00:44:21,292 --> 00:44:23,926
I don't blame him.
762
00:44:23,995 --> 00:44:31,534
And I'm holding him firmly,
trying not to slip.
763
00:44:31,603 --> 00:44:36,606
Because if you hold tight
enough, nothing will take him.
764
00:44:36,708 --> 00:44:38,608
Right?
765
00:44:39,944 --> 00:44:41,110
He sleeps.
766
00:44:41,212 --> 00:44:45,748
Thank you.
767
00:44:55,593 --> 00:44:58,127
Ryan: Thank you.
768
00:44:58,863 --> 00:45:03,766
Man: So, uh...
769
00:45:03,868 --> 00:45:05,968
Excuse me.
Ryan: Thank you.
770
00:45:06,104 --> 00:45:07,637
Man: Uh, take care.
771
00:45:50,982 --> 00:45:54,016
Man #2: Good luck. Take care.
772
00:46:09,367 --> 00:46:11,200
Ryan: One of the first things
people ask me is,
773
00:46:11,336 --> 00:46:13,736
"Was it kind of strange
774
00:46:13,805 --> 00:46:20,042
showing a game about terminal
cancer to this environment?"
775
00:46:20,145 --> 00:46:21,511
I'm thinking,
"Why is that so strange?"
776
00:46:21,613 --> 00:46:24,347
Why are we all walking
around anonymous
777
00:46:24,449 --> 00:46:29,118
and not talking about the things
that shape the way we are?
778
00:46:29,187 --> 00:46:30,419
One of the first things
you think about
779
00:46:30,488 --> 00:46:34,590
when you're in the hospital
with you kid is, uh...
780
00:46:34,659 --> 00:46:38,761
I'm surrounded by 500 families
going through the same thing,
781
00:46:38,897 --> 00:46:40,663
but all the doors are closed.
782
00:46:42,133 --> 00:46:45,168
It's tragic to me.
783
00:46:45,336 --> 00:46:46,002
You're not alone.
784
00:46:46,137 --> 00:46:47,937
I'm not alone.
785
00:46:48,006 --> 00:46:53,176
I think we've been told a lie
that it's safer to escape.
786
00:46:53,311 --> 00:46:55,211
And, um, I see people saying
787
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,779
"I use games as a form
of escape."
788
00:46:56,915 --> 00:46:58,247
I mean, what are
we escaping from?
789
00:46:58,316 --> 00:47:01,150
Are we gonna spend our whole
life escaping from the thing
790
00:47:01,286 --> 00:47:02,685
that makes us, us, you know?
791
00:47:02,754 --> 00:47:05,221
The things that happen to us,
define us.
792
00:47:05,390 --> 00:47:06,289
They make us who we are.
793
00:47:06,424 --> 00:47:08,424
They're complex,
they're nuanced,
794
00:47:08,493 --> 00:47:12,662
they're tragic,
and they're beautiful.
795
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:43,292
Ryan: God.
796
00:47:43,394 --> 00:47:45,127
Like, it just --
We're on the brink, you know?
797
00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:49,365
And it's just like we --
we need something to go well,
798
00:47:49,467 --> 00:47:51,567
otherwise I could
lose Joel in like,
799
00:47:51,703 --> 00:47:52,802
the next month or two.
800
00:47:52,971 --> 00:47:54,837
You know?
801
00:47:54,906 --> 00:47:57,974
And just so, seeing, like,
the level of, um --
802
00:47:58,142 --> 00:47:59,442
like the depth of emotion
803
00:47:59,510 --> 00:48:03,212
of the people
that are playing it, like --
804
00:48:03,314 --> 00:48:10,620
It just -- It reminds me
just how heavy it is.
805
00:48:10,755 --> 00:48:13,289
[ Sobbing ]
806
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:26,402
It's -- I just wish
I could hold him right now.
807
00:49:05,743 --> 00:49:07,777
Amy: You think a doctor would
understand if you were like --
808
00:49:07,845 --> 00:49:09,011
-Ryan: Yeah, why not?
-Amy: "His eye looks better.
809
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,247
-I want a new scan."
-Ryan: Why not?
810
00:49:11,316 --> 00:49:13,716
If you -- Like, you're
at this stage in everything,
811
00:49:13,851 --> 00:49:15,584
like, what's it gonna hurt
812
00:49:15,653 --> 00:49:18,254
to have parents hoping
for, like, miracles?
813
00:49:18,356 --> 00:49:19,822
Amy: You're so much
less mopey here.
814
00:49:19,891 --> 00:49:23,159
-Ryan: We're on our adventure.
-Amy: I don't know.
815
00:49:23,261 --> 00:49:24,360
It's funny 'cause I feel
like I always think
816
00:49:24,429 --> 00:49:26,729
every MRI is gonna be, like,
amazing and clear
817
00:49:26,898 --> 00:49:28,564
and you never think that.
818
00:49:28,666 --> 00:49:31,734
And then now I feel like I'm
less and less that way right now
819
00:49:31,903 --> 00:49:34,303
and you're more that way.
820
00:49:34,439 --> 00:49:36,205
Ryan: Yeah, I don't know, babe.
821
00:49:36,341 --> 00:49:39,041
Amy: I don't know, either.
822
00:49:41,713 --> 00:49:44,880
Amy: The trick is
to keep squeezing it
823
00:49:44,983 --> 00:49:48,651
until there's nothing left
in there.
824
00:49:48,786 --> 00:49:49,685
Caleb: Think that's it?
825
00:49:58,262 --> 00:50:00,129
Joel: Look! That!
826
00:50:00,264 --> 00:50:01,364
Ryan: Yeah, that's a bridge.
827
00:50:01,499 --> 00:50:06,335
That's the Golden Gate Bridge.
828
00:50:06,437 --> 00:50:09,105
Amy: We found out
that I was pregnant
829
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:11,707
the day before they found
two or three new tumors.
830
00:50:16,147 --> 00:50:17,813
[ Voice breaking ]
It's still a happy thing
831
00:50:17,949 --> 00:50:19,782
but it feels less important now
832
00:50:19,884 --> 00:50:24,153
because we're so focused
on what's happening with Joel.
833
00:50:24,655 --> 00:50:28,057
[ Joel laughs ]
834
00:50:28,126 --> 00:50:29,792
Ryan: Are you gonna
give Zoe a kiss?
835
00:50:29,861 --> 00:50:32,228
-Elijah: Yeah.
-Ryan: Give Zoe kisses.
836
00:50:34,899 --> 00:50:39,368
-Amy: Can you say "Hi, Zoe?"
-Elijah: Hi, Zoe!
837
00:50:48,146 --> 00:50:49,178
Amy: Isaac, you better go wash
up your hands --
838
00:50:49,247 --> 00:50:51,680
Ryan: Isaac, go wash off
your hands, buddy!
839
00:50:51,783 --> 00:50:53,416
Caleb: 'Cause I feel like
since this --
840
00:50:53,518 --> 00:50:54,850
Ryan: No, no, no, Elijah!
No! No! No!
841
00:50:55,019 --> 00:50:56,018
Caleb: My hand is sandy.
842
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,119
Ryan: Go wash off
your hands with Isaac!
843
00:50:57,255 --> 00:50:59,321
Good grief.
844
00:50:59,390 --> 00:51:01,424
Getting them
from the water to here
845
00:51:01,492 --> 00:51:03,325
-without dirty hands...
-Amy: It's ridiculous.
846
00:51:03,461 --> 00:51:04,727
Ryan: ...is ridiculous.
847
00:51:04,829 --> 00:51:08,731
Caleb: See? Right there.
Is that sand or...?
848
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,800
Amy: That might be
a little bit of sand.
849
00:51:30,088 --> 00:51:35,124
Amy: [ Laughing ]
You're ridiculous.
850
00:51:35,226 --> 00:51:36,692
Ryan: Okay, guys!
Will you look at me?
851
00:51:36,861 --> 00:51:38,727
Amy: Okay. Look at Da-da!
852
00:51:38,863 --> 00:51:40,029
Look at Daddy and smile, okay?
853
00:51:40,131 --> 00:51:41,764
Ryan: Look at me,
look at me, look at me!
854
00:51:41,899 --> 00:51:43,299
Hello! Hello! Hello!
855
00:51:43,367 --> 00:51:43,999
-Amy: Where's Da-da?
-Ryan: Hello! Hello! Hello!
856
00:51:44,135 --> 00:51:46,869
Joel! Elijah!
857
00:51:47,004 --> 00:51:48,304
Smile, buddy!
858
00:51:48,372 --> 00:51:50,372
Amy: Okay, I'm gonna get them
more bread, Daddy.
859
00:51:58,116 --> 00:52:02,184
Ryan: Run! Run away! Run away!
860
00:52:11,095 --> 00:52:14,463
It just feels like if we knew
we were a week from death,
861
00:52:14,532 --> 00:52:16,132
-we would know that.
-Amy: Yeah.
862
00:52:16,234 --> 00:52:18,100
Ryan: Because he would be
showing all the signs
863
00:52:18,169 --> 00:52:19,468
-that they talk about.
-Amy: Well, like --
864
00:52:19,537 --> 00:52:20,703
Ryan: Or even some of the signs
that they talk about.
865
00:52:20,771 --> 00:52:23,038
-Amy: Right.
-Ryan: For end-of-life.
866
00:52:23,141 --> 00:52:23,772
Amy: And we haven't seen
any of those things.
867
00:52:23,875 --> 00:52:25,341
Ryan: With that, yeah.
868
00:52:25,443 --> 00:52:26,609
Amy: By the time
we get to that point,
869
00:52:26,677 --> 00:52:29,545
I don't know that a trial
will be helpful anyway.
870
00:52:29,647 --> 00:52:32,281
So are we getting a week
closer to that? Like --
871
00:52:32,416 --> 00:52:33,682
I guess in theory, yes,
872
00:52:33,751 --> 00:52:36,952
but I'm comfortable
with the way --
873
00:52:37,021 --> 00:52:40,222
Like, I'm not panicked
like we have to start tomorrow.
874
00:52:40,291 --> 00:52:42,725
Caleb: Uh, Mom?
Joel won't take the cookies.
875
00:52:42,860 --> 00:52:44,260
Amy: Oh, yeah?
876
00:52:44,362 --> 00:52:45,561
He wanted a cookie but now
he doesn't want a cookie?
877
00:52:45,630 --> 00:52:47,029
Caleb: Yeah.
Amy: I'll go help him.
878
00:52:47,098 --> 00:52:49,732
Caleb: He wants, he wants a --
He wants fried chicken, so...
879
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,301
Amy: Oh, well, do you want
to help him with that?
880
00:52:52,370 --> 00:52:53,869
Ryan: No, don't
make him help with --
881
00:52:53,971 --> 00:52:55,404
Amy: You have to tear off
pieces.
882
00:52:55,473 --> 00:52:57,373
-Caleb: How long can I cook it?
-Amy: I wouldn't even cook it.
883
00:52:57,441 --> 00:52:59,108
I'd just tear off --
Ryan: No. I -- Cook it.
884
00:52:59,177 --> 00:53:01,177
Amy: Okay, Mommy will
come help with chicken.
885
00:53:01,245 --> 00:53:03,145
Elijah: Mom,
can I have a cookie?
886
00:53:03,314 --> 00:53:05,614
Amy: Yes, you can have a cookie.
887
00:53:28,306 --> 00:53:31,207
Ryan: It's interesting to me
that there's a huge church
888
00:53:31,342 --> 00:53:34,343
with crosses on it,
889
00:53:34,412 --> 00:53:38,581
and then the hospital
right there.
890
00:53:38,649 --> 00:53:43,319
And I just --
I felt like most of the time
891
00:53:43,387 --> 00:53:46,755
we've been walking that line
between both.
892
00:54:23,628 --> 00:54:26,228
[ Monitor beeping ]
893
00:55:55,419 --> 00:55:55,918
Ryan: [ Inhales sharply ]
894
00:55:56,053 --> 00:55:58,620
Ready?
895
00:55:58,723 --> 00:56:00,289
I think sometimes
it's easier to retell pain,
896
00:56:00,424 --> 00:56:05,094
it's harder to encode joy.
897
00:56:05,229 --> 00:56:07,029
I got to figure that out still.
898
00:56:11,102 --> 00:56:12,301
Ryan: Ha!
899
00:56:12,403 --> 00:56:15,704
-Ooh.
-Joel: [ Laughs ]
900
00:56:15,873 --> 00:56:21,443
Ryan: [ Laughs ]
901
00:56:21,612 --> 00:56:23,145
Ha! Boom!
902
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,148
[ Joel's laughter continues ]
903
00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:29,418
Ryan: I was telling Caleb
that Joel's doing really well.
904
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:30,986
Amy: He's doing really well?
905
00:56:31,055 --> 00:56:33,422
Ryan: Yeah.
Amy: Looks real happy!
906
00:56:33,491 --> 00:56:37,126
Ryan: He's been very peaceful
all afternoon.
907
00:56:50,541 --> 00:56:53,142
I can tell you what it's like
to be me, you know?
908
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:56,044
And I can tell you
what it's like to be with Joel
909
00:56:56,113 --> 00:56:58,013
but I can't tell you
much about Joel.
910
00:57:01,352 --> 00:57:04,553
'Cause I don't
know him that well.
911
00:57:04,622 --> 00:57:06,221
I know what it's like
to love him
912
00:57:06,323 --> 00:57:07,456
and I know what it's like
to be with him
913
00:57:07,591 --> 00:57:09,892
and I know what it's like
to play with him
914
00:57:10,027 --> 00:57:11,293
and get that response,
915
00:57:11,395 --> 00:57:15,330
but I don't know
what he's thinking.
916
00:57:15,399 --> 00:57:17,132
I don't know what he thinks
about all of this.
917
00:57:17,268 --> 00:57:19,568
I wish I knew.
918
00:57:19,637 --> 00:57:21,703
And I have hope
that someday I will.
919
00:57:25,176 --> 00:57:29,711
Amy: I feel like now
we just kinda record everything.
920
00:57:29,780 --> 00:57:31,046
[ Voice breaking ] There's just
sort of this feeling
921
00:57:31,148 --> 00:57:34,416
that you should capture
whatever you can.
922
00:57:34,518 --> 00:57:38,520
Capturing the good and the bad
and the sad and the happy and...
923
00:57:38,589 --> 00:57:40,122
Doctor: His swallow
is a little slow...
924
00:57:40,224 --> 00:57:42,558
Amy: ...kinda deciding later
what's important.
925
00:57:42,626 --> 00:57:45,861
Because I think you wouldn't
want to not capture it
926
00:57:45,996 --> 00:57:49,364
and know you couldn't go back.
927
00:57:49,467 --> 00:57:51,800
Ryan: [ Inhales sharply ]
Ready? Go!
928
00:57:51,969 --> 00:57:55,704
Joel: [ Laughs ]
929
00:58:02,446 --> 00:58:04,947
Trainer: He's fine. [ Laughs ]
930
00:58:05,082 --> 00:58:11,753
Woman: Aww.
931
00:58:11,889 --> 00:58:13,522
Ryan: Now you can draw.
932
00:58:13,657 --> 00:58:15,891
Yeah!
933
00:58:16,026 --> 00:58:18,060
This is Mama's card.
934
00:58:18,162 --> 00:58:20,095
Ryan: Okay! Here's for Mommy.
935
00:58:20,197 --> 00:58:23,832
Amy: It says -- "To Mommy."
936
00:58:23,901 --> 00:58:26,568
"Dear Mommy, I love you
with all my heart
937
00:58:26,637 --> 00:58:28,237
and you love me
with all your heart.
938
00:58:28,339 --> 00:58:29,638
So we match! Love, Joel."
939
00:58:29,707 --> 00:58:32,107
Look -- he did
so much coloring!
940
00:58:32,209 --> 00:58:33,542
Ryan: He did lots of coloring
941
00:58:33,611 --> 00:58:36,345
and he wanted to do
all the different colors.
942
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:37,713
Amy: Aw. Good job, Joel.
943
00:58:51,061 --> 00:58:51,693
[ Engine revs ]
944
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:54,196
[ Crowd cheering ]
945
00:58:54,331 --> 00:58:57,699
[ Simulation beeping ]
946
00:59:17,388 --> 00:59:20,022
[ Triumphant music plays ]
947
00:59:20,157 --> 00:59:23,592
[ Beeping ]
948
00:59:32,436 --> 00:59:36,438
[ Siren wailing in distance ]
949
00:59:41,245 --> 00:59:42,744
[ Helicopter blades whirring ]
950
00:59:54,291 --> 00:59:58,026
Amy: Do you want one?
951
00:59:58,162 --> 00:59:59,595
Do you want to eat it?
952
00:59:59,763 --> 00:59:59,828
No? Okay.
953
01:00:04,969 --> 01:00:07,002
Joel: No!
954
01:00:07,137 --> 01:00:09,671
No!
955
01:00:13,777 --> 01:00:17,713
-Ryan: Yo.
-Josh: How's it going?
956
01:00:17,848 --> 01:00:19,081
Ryan: It's going all right.
957
01:00:19,149 --> 01:00:20,882
-Josh: Yeah?
-Ryan: Yeah.
958
01:00:20,951 --> 01:00:22,517
Josh: So they've --
they've already started doing
959
01:00:22,620 --> 01:00:24,019
some toxicity tests and stuff?
960
01:00:24,121 --> 01:00:28,123
Ryan: So they've given us a
number of 10% that it will work.
961
01:00:28,192 --> 01:00:29,424
-At all.
-Josh: Yeah.
962
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,526
-Ryan: So...
963
01:00:31,695 --> 01:00:33,295
-Joel: Where go?
964
01:00:33,364 --> 01:00:37,332
-Ryan: What?
-Amy: Where'd he go?
965
01:00:37,401 --> 01:00:40,836
-Ryan: Where'd he go?
-Joel: Where'd he go?
966
01:00:40,904 --> 01:00:43,505
Ryan: Where'd Josh go?
Uh...
967
01:00:43,641 --> 01:00:45,741
[ Joel laughs ]
968
01:00:47,645 --> 01:00:50,178
Joel: Where'd he go?
Where'd he go?
969
01:00:50,314 --> 01:00:52,781
Ryan: I don't know.
970
01:00:52,916 --> 01:00:53,515
Where'd he go?
971
01:00:53,651 --> 01:00:57,786
[ Joel laughs ]
972
01:01:00,658 --> 01:01:02,924
-Ryan: Where'd he go?
-Joel: Hey, you!
973
01:01:03,060 --> 01:01:06,328
[ Laughs ]
974
01:01:06,430 --> 01:01:07,329
Ryan: He said --
He said "Hey, you!"
975
01:01:07,498 --> 01:01:11,533
Amy: It sounded like "Hey, you!"
976
01:03:15,459 --> 01:03:19,761
[ Pop! ]
-Ryan: [ Gasps ]
977
01:03:50,961 --> 01:03:55,430
Josh: People have asked,
"Well, how does the game end?"
978
01:03:55,532 --> 01:03:58,500
We know where we want
to leave people,
979
01:03:58,569 --> 01:04:01,102
but the way we have it,
sort of scripted right now,
980
01:04:01,171 --> 01:04:02,737
might change,
based on, you know,
981
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,141
what happens in the next,
uh, few weeks here.
982
01:04:13,250 --> 01:04:15,717
Josh: If Ryan had to crawl
in a hole for a month
983
01:04:15,886 --> 01:04:17,586
or however long,
984
01:04:17,654 --> 01:04:22,557
we would and could
continue on the game.
985
01:04:22,626 --> 01:04:23,959
Josh: You know,
the game will be made.
986
01:04:24,127 --> 01:04:28,363
Put it that way.
987
01:04:28,465 --> 01:04:30,866
Jon: Some of the editing
I've been doing is
988
01:04:31,001 --> 01:04:33,301
spectrograph-based.
989
01:04:33,370 --> 01:04:35,804
This is what his laugh
looks like, as far as like,
990
01:04:35,873 --> 01:04:37,873
a frequency, so it's a lot
like a fingerprint, you know.
991
01:04:37,941 --> 01:04:43,845
And like I actually
started wondering like, if, uh,
992
01:04:43,914 --> 01:04:47,649
if I looked at enough of this,
like, would I see something?
993
01:04:47,718 --> 01:04:54,923
Like, would I see, um,
him somehow, you know?
994
01:04:55,058 --> 01:04:56,858
Yeah.
995
01:04:56,994 --> 01:04:59,761
Pretty cool.
996
01:05:22,653 --> 01:05:25,687
Ryan: [ Sighs ]
997
01:05:25,756 --> 01:05:28,156
One scan can like,
flip everything on its head
998
01:05:28,292 --> 01:05:29,658
in a moment, you know?
999
01:05:29,793 --> 01:05:33,194
Like, um...
1000
01:05:33,297 --> 01:05:34,863
One night
you're in San Francisco
1001
01:05:34,932 --> 01:05:38,700
and one night you're back home,
on an oxygen tank, you know?
1002
01:05:38,769 --> 01:05:42,804
And uh, it just
switches that quickly.
1003
01:05:42,873 --> 01:05:46,608
I think with Joel,
I don't want to hide from it.
1004
01:05:46,743 --> 01:05:48,043
I think there is, uh --
1005
01:05:48,211 --> 01:05:49,411
[ Sighs ]
1006
01:05:49,546 --> 01:05:51,913
temptation early on, you know?
1007
01:05:51,982 --> 01:05:54,182
When he was 2 and they were
telling us he was gonna die
1008
01:05:54,318 --> 01:05:56,351
and it's like, well...
1009
01:05:56,420 --> 01:06:00,288
"If I don't love him, then I
won't be hurt by it," you know?
1010
01:06:00,357 --> 01:06:02,057
And he's young
and I don't know him
1011
01:06:02,159 --> 01:06:04,292
and, you know,
there's that detachment.
1012
01:06:04,394 --> 01:06:09,531
You can like allow yourself
never to fully love, um,
1013
01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:11,399
someone that you're
gonna lose, you know?
1014
01:06:11,501 --> 01:06:13,835
And instead, I just want
to be like, all in.
1015
01:06:13,971 --> 01:06:21,977
In every way.
1016
01:06:22,112 --> 01:06:23,278
[ Laughter ]
1017
01:06:23,347 --> 01:06:25,580
Ryan: Sorry.
The kids are finally coming in.
1018
01:06:25,716 --> 01:06:29,684
Man: It's okay.
1019
01:06:29,786 --> 01:06:31,486
Ryan: We're gonna go say hi
to the nurse, okay, Joel?
1020
01:06:31,555 --> 01:06:34,556
-Amy: Okay.
That's good there.
1021
01:06:37,127 --> 01:06:38,293
Now what we're gonna have to do
1022
01:06:38,362 --> 01:06:40,261
is set him up
on two different pain pumps.
1023
01:06:40,330 --> 01:06:41,830
-Amy: Okay.
Nurse: Hey, buddy.
1024
01:06:41,965 --> 01:06:43,598
Ryan: Here, sweetheart.
1025
01:06:43,767 --> 01:06:47,302
Okay, baby. There you go.
1026
01:06:50,007 --> 01:06:50,872
Nurse: Hi!
1027
01:06:51,008 --> 01:06:53,375
Ryan: He's calmed down now.
1028
01:06:53,443 --> 01:06:57,312
-That's the nurse.
-Nurse: Hi!
1029
01:06:57,381 --> 01:07:00,348
My hands are very cold.
[ Chuckles ]
1030
01:07:00,517 --> 01:07:01,716
Hi there!
1031
01:07:01,785 --> 01:07:04,919
So is he ever alert
and walkin' around?
1032
01:07:05,055 --> 01:07:05,820
Ryan: No, he doesn't walk
anymore.
1033
01:07:05,956 --> 01:07:07,555
Amy: Yeah, so he stopped --
1034
01:07:07,624 --> 01:07:09,457
I mean, for probably
four or five weeks,
1035
01:07:09,559 --> 01:07:11,159
stopped walking, standing,
crawling.
1036
01:07:11,228 --> 01:07:12,260
Nurse: So, they took
the tube out today?
1037
01:07:12,329 --> 01:07:13,695
-Amy: Mm-hmm.
-Ryan: We did.
1038
01:07:13,764 --> 01:07:15,063
-Yeah.
-Nurse: Okay.
1039
01:07:15,132 --> 01:07:17,098
Amy: But then that made us
wonder about fluids for him
1040
01:07:17,167 --> 01:07:18,400
because we're like
"Eh, maybe he doesn't need
1041
01:07:18,468 --> 01:07:19,901
all the food intake,
but he probably still needs --
1042
01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:22,470
-Nurse: A little bit of fluids.
-Amy: Some fluids.
1043
01:07:22,539 --> 01:07:24,172
Nurse: We traditionally
don't do I.V. fluids.
1044
01:07:24,307 --> 01:07:27,709
So, it's -- you probably --
1045
01:07:27,844 --> 01:07:29,477
We'll discuss it
with the doctor.
1046
01:07:29,613 --> 01:07:30,512
Amy: Sure.
1047
01:07:30,580 --> 01:07:31,546
-Nurse: And, um --
-Ryan: How come?
1048
01:07:31,648 --> 01:07:32,580
-Just --
-Nurse: Kind of what your --
1049
01:07:32,649 --> 01:07:37,252
Um, it's not a goal
of hospice to...
1050
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:38,053
-Ryan: Sure.
-Nurse: ...to, you know --
1051
01:07:38,155 --> 01:07:39,120
Ryan: To keep him hydrated.
1052
01:07:39,256 --> 01:07:40,188
Nurse: To keep him comfortable.
1053
01:07:40,257 --> 01:07:41,389
-Ryan: Understood.
-Amy: Okay.
1054
01:07:41,491 --> 01:07:43,758
Ryan: That could
accelerate things, though.
1055
01:07:43,894 --> 01:07:46,828
Nurse: It could. Yeah.
1056
01:07:46,963 --> 01:07:49,030
So...
1057
01:07:56,807 --> 01:08:02,177
We can titrate the medications
if you guys want.
1058
01:08:02,245 --> 01:08:06,481
So what we're gonna start him
on is 0.1 milligram.
1059
01:08:06,550 --> 01:08:09,851
Um, if there's error or
something and it's beeping,
1060
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:10,685
you know you could
press that.
1061
01:08:14,357 --> 01:08:16,791
And, you know,
we're available 24/7.
1062
01:08:16,927 --> 01:08:19,461
So, you guys have our number.
1063
01:08:49,826 --> 01:08:52,160
Ryan: I'm trying to
rationalize to myself
1064
01:08:52,262 --> 01:08:55,897
why I'm talking
to you right now.
1065
01:08:55,966 --> 01:08:59,734
And like, why I'm even
allowing you here, and why, um,
1066
01:08:59,803 --> 01:09:04,005
I do this stuff with the game
and why --
1067
01:09:04,174 --> 01:09:06,708
[ Sighs ]
1068
01:09:09,012 --> 01:09:12,213
I guess my only answer is
I don't know what else I'd do.
1069
01:09:12,349 --> 01:09:14,816
And that I just --
1070
01:09:14,918 --> 01:09:19,621
I feel just this compulsion
to just share it,
1071
01:09:19,789 --> 01:09:21,322
to talk about it,
1072
01:09:21,424 --> 01:09:23,124
because I-I kind
of want to capture it
1073
01:09:23,226 --> 01:09:27,328
because as soon as it's gone,
it'll be a shadow
1074
01:09:27,397 --> 01:09:29,898
and I won't be able
to remember it.
1075
01:09:30,033 --> 01:09:35,036
I don't want --
1076
01:09:35,205 --> 01:09:37,705
[ Sighs ]
1077
01:09:39,476 --> 01:09:43,011
I'm so scared
I'm gonna forget Joel.
1078
01:09:50,620 --> 01:09:52,620
[ Sighs ]
1079
01:09:57,494 --> 01:10:00,228
I don't want to forget him.
1080
01:10:09,306 --> 01:10:13,508
[ Sighs ] So maybe I'm...
1081
01:10:24,454 --> 01:10:26,988
...pointing as many cameras
as I can at him.
1082
01:10:27,157 --> 01:10:30,692
[ Laughs ] At us.
1083
01:10:30,860 --> 01:10:34,362
Just freeze this moment.
1084
01:10:39,936 --> 01:10:45,273
All: ♪ I will love you ♪
1085
01:10:45,342 --> 01:10:47,842
♪ Forever all my days ♪
1086
01:10:47,944 --> 01:10:52,880
♪ I will love you right ♪
1087
01:10:52,949 --> 01:10:58,553
♪ Hallelujah, our God reigns ♪
1088
01:10:58,622 --> 01:11:05,627
♪ Hallelujah, our God reigns ♪
1089
01:11:05,695 --> 01:11:12,400
♪ Forever all my days,
hallelujah ♪
1090
01:12:37,454 --> 01:12:39,620
Isaac: I want to jump.
Watch me!
1091
01:12:39,689 --> 01:12:41,356
Amy: When you jump,
does it jump?
1092
01:12:41,424 --> 01:12:43,057
-Isaac: No.
-Caleb: You can try.
1093
01:12:43,159 --> 01:12:44,892
-You can try it.
-Elijah: Jump!
1094
01:12:45,028 --> 01:12:45,860
Amy: Ah, you're right.
1095
01:12:46,029 --> 01:12:47,428
Elijah: I want to try it!
1096
01:12:47,564 --> 01:12:51,599
I want to try it! It's my turn!
1097
01:12:51,668 --> 01:12:54,335
Amy: It's your turn?
Do you want to go after Caleb?
1098
01:12:54,404 --> 01:12:56,003
Elijah: Yeah.
Amy: Okay.
1099
01:12:56,139 --> 01:12:58,673
That'd be fun.
1100
01:13:01,311 --> 01:13:02,343
Caleb: I want to hold Zoe!
1101
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:05,213
Amy: Do you want to hold Zoe?
1102
01:13:05,348 --> 01:13:07,682
Caleb: Mom, I want to hold Zoe.
1103
01:13:07,751 --> 01:13:09,350
Amy: I can help you
with the pacifier.
1104
01:13:09,419 --> 01:13:11,786
Caleb: She was
holding it back though, so.
1105
01:13:16,826 --> 01:13:18,893
Amy: If you just talk to her
a little bit,
1106
01:13:19,062 --> 01:13:21,095
she likes that the best.
1107
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:24,632
Caleb: Shh, Zoe.
1108
01:13:30,940 --> 01:13:34,142
Ryan: This last act is a matter
of asking the player
1109
01:13:34,277 --> 01:13:35,676
to choose rest.
1110
01:13:35,745 --> 01:13:37,645
Also, asking the player
to let Joel go.
1111
01:13:41,551 --> 01:13:42,917
-Amy: I like it.
-Ryan: So...
1112
01:13:42,986 --> 01:13:44,252
Now you're --
Now you're the player.
1113
01:13:44,354 --> 01:13:45,019
So, whereas before,
you've been you,
1114
01:13:45,155 --> 01:13:46,921
you've been me,
1115
01:13:47,023 --> 01:13:50,391
you've caught
where we're coming from.
1116
01:13:50,460 --> 01:13:51,125
Now in the cathedral,
I'm asking you,
1117
01:13:51,261 --> 01:13:53,594
"So, how do you feel?"
1118
01:13:53,663 --> 01:13:56,264
And so you're presented
with this scenario
1119
01:13:56,366 --> 01:13:57,532
where you have
all these levers to pull.
1120
01:13:57,634 --> 01:14:00,735
And then, at some point
they pull a lever
1121
01:14:00,904 --> 01:14:02,170
and this thing comes up.
1122
01:14:02,238 --> 01:14:04,338
So "boom", you know?
And now there's a keyboard.
1123
01:14:04,407 --> 01:14:06,441
"Okay, I've found something,"
right?
1124
01:14:06,576 --> 01:14:07,675
Amy: Mm-hmm.
1125
01:14:07,744 --> 01:14:08,709
Ryan: And now the keyboard
starts to play.
1126
01:14:08,778 --> 01:14:12,380
And so, it's playing
automatically,
1127
01:14:12,482 --> 01:14:14,048
and you can either choose
to play with it
1128
01:14:14,184 --> 01:14:15,450
or play against it.
1129
01:14:15,518 --> 01:14:18,352
But like, whenever
you play against it,
1130
01:14:18,488 --> 01:14:21,322
you're creating dissonance.
1131
01:14:21,424 --> 01:14:23,090
And so, it's this matter
of like playing along
1132
01:14:23,226 --> 01:14:26,127
with what's happening.
1133
01:14:26,196 --> 01:14:27,295
It's resting in
what's happening...
1134
01:14:27,363 --> 01:14:28,663
-Amy: Mm-hmm.
-Ryan: ...rather, you know?
1135
01:14:28,731 --> 01:14:31,466
And then eventually,
you get back to the forest
1136
01:14:31,568 --> 01:14:37,238
and I changed this --
Amy: Aww.
1137
01:14:37,340 --> 01:14:39,807
-I like that.
-Ryan: [ Whispers ] Yeah.
1138
01:14:39,876 --> 01:14:41,242
Amy: [ Laughs ]
Is he telling you to "come on?"
1139
01:14:41,377 --> 01:14:43,177
Ryan: So he's more active.
1140
01:14:43,313 --> 01:14:44,245
Like, yeah, that could be it,
1141
01:14:44,347 --> 01:14:46,214
or I was like either
he's like saying
1142
01:14:46,316 --> 01:14:48,082
"Come on, come on,"
or he's like popping a --
1143
01:14:48,184 --> 01:14:51,352
-Amy: A bubble.
-Ryan: A bubble.
1144
01:14:51,454 --> 01:14:53,621
Amy: So the last you
see us is on the island.
1145
01:14:53,756 --> 01:14:54,856
Ryan: Mm-hmm.
1146
01:14:54,924 --> 01:14:56,324
Amy: And then Joel
goes here without us --
1147
01:14:56,392 --> 01:14:58,226
Ryan: And you see us
on the island,
1148
01:14:58,394 --> 01:15:00,828
in the middle of the sea.
1149
01:15:00,964 --> 01:15:02,563
Trusting that we're going
to get to the other side.
1150
01:15:02,665 --> 01:15:06,567
-Amy: And Joel goes and we stay.
-Ryan: Yeah.
1151
01:15:06,669 --> 01:15:07,468
Amy: On the island
in the middle of the sea.
1152
01:15:07,604 --> 01:15:09,570
Ryan: In the middle of the sea.
1153
01:15:09,639 --> 01:15:10,638
-Amy: But he makes it
to the other side.
1154
01:15:10,707 --> 01:15:14,475
-Ryan: He makes it
to the other side.
1155
01:15:14,577 --> 01:15:16,477
Amy: Do you feel
like you have to --
1156
01:15:16,546 --> 01:15:18,079
You don't feel like you have
to revisit that at all
1157
01:15:18,214 --> 01:15:19,247
once you get to the other side,
1158
01:15:19,382 --> 01:15:20,748
that we're still on the island
1159
01:15:20,850 --> 01:15:22,316
or that, like, it's just okay
for you that that's where it is?
1160
01:15:22,452 --> 01:15:23,918
Ryan: I absolutely think, yeah.
1161
01:15:24,053 --> 01:15:27,755
Amy: Okay.
1162
01:15:27,824 --> 01:15:31,592
Ryan: And that's why him like
laying there is kind of like --
1163
01:15:31,694 --> 01:15:33,694
I don't necessarily know that I
want us to be there in the park.
1164
01:15:33,796 --> 01:15:35,796
Amy: Yeah 'cause at first
you said we'd be there,
1165
01:15:35,899 --> 01:15:38,466
but I think you're right that --
If that's how you see this,
1166
01:15:38,535 --> 01:15:41,402
is that at this point
he's moved on and we can't --
1167
01:15:41,538 --> 01:15:42,336
Ryan: Yeah.
1168
01:15:42,438 --> 01:15:47,208
Amy: Then, like,
we're not there.
1169
01:15:47,377 --> 01:15:49,277
Ryan: [ Whispers ] Yeah.
1170
01:15:49,345 --> 01:15:53,481
Amy: Okay, I feel really good
about the end of the game.
1171
01:15:53,550 --> 01:15:54,482
And what we've written
and what we're doing.
1172
01:15:54,551 --> 01:15:56,884
-Ryan: Yeah? Okay.
-Amy: I think so.
1173
01:15:56,953 --> 01:15:59,554
Ryan: I feel like it
brings it around full circle.
1174
01:15:59,622 --> 01:16:00,388
Amy: I think it's gonna be
really good.
1175
01:16:00,490 --> 01:16:05,693
Ryan: I think it'll be pretty.
1176
01:16:05,795 --> 01:16:11,132
Most of the picking up the
pieces is done in the aftermath.
1177
01:16:11,301 --> 01:16:14,035
Not in the middle of it.
1178
01:16:14,170 --> 01:16:15,937
When the cameras turn of
and wh--
1179
01:16:16,105 --> 01:16:17,238
[ Sighs ]
1180
01:16:17,340 --> 01:16:19,874
...and then when the game
is done, you know?
1181
01:16:19,976 --> 01:16:30,418
And then, what, you're just left
in silence with that hole.
1182
01:16:30,486 --> 01:16:32,186
I think that's the mystery
of all of this,
1183
01:16:32,255 --> 01:16:37,058
is that, life isn't built on
how well things have gone.
1184
01:16:37,193 --> 01:16:39,126
It's the --
1185
01:16:39,295 --> 01:16:43,030
It's the whole crazy mess of it.
1186
01:16:52,075 --> 01:16:54,709
I was telling Caleb
that Joel's doing really well.
1187
01:16:54,811 --> 01:16:56,744
Amy: He's doing really well?
1188
01:16:56,813 --> 01:16:59,647
-Ryan: Yeah.
-Amy: Looks real happy!
1189
01:16:59,716 --> 01:17:01,749
Ryan: He's been very peaceful
all afternoon.
1190
01:17:05,788 --> 01:17:10,891
The most fulfilling
and meaningful and passionate
1191
01:17:10,994 --> 01:17:12,326
and compassionate moments
of your life
1192
01:17:12,395 --> 01:17:17,531
can be in the middle of the
deepest loss you can experience.
1193
01:17:20,470 --> 01:17:22,370
I think that can be beautiful.
1194
01:17:25,208 --> 01:17:27,942
I hope it's beautiful.
1195
01:17:59,008 --> 01:18:02,476
Joel: [ Giggles ] More!
1196
01:18:02,578 --> 01:18:06,147
♪♪