1 00:00:08,875 --> 00:00:11,810 [ Door opens ] 2 00:00:13,813 --> 00:00:15,981 Male Counselor: Mr. and Mrs. Green. 3 00:00:16,117 --> 00:00:17,683 I'm sorry. 4 00:00:17,818 --> 00:00:19,785 It's not good news. 5 00:00:19,887 --> 00:00:23,756 Your son Joel has had a recurrence of his brain tumor. 6 00:00:26,627 --> 00:00:31,363 Any recurrence means the chemotherapy has failed. 7 00:00:32,666 --> 00:00:36,769 Female Counselor: We're very good at end-of-life care. 8 00:00:36,904 --> 00:00:39,605 Male Counselor: We're so sorry. 9 00:00:40,174 --> 00:00:42,775 [ Thunder rolls ] 10 00:00:45,246 --> 00:00:48,747 [ Rain falls ] 11 00:01:16,944 --> 00:01:19,478 [ Thunder crashes ] 12 00:01:20,815 --> 00:01:23,248 We've given you a lot to think about already today! 13 00:01:23,350 --> 00:01:24,716 But we're going to have you come back Monday 14 00:01:24,785 --> 00:01:28,554 and we can talk about palliative treatment! 15 00:01:32,927 --> 00:01:37,329 Female Counselor: We're very good at end-of-life care! 16 00:01:37,431 --> 00:01:39,731 We're very good at managing pain! 17 00:01:39,867 --> 00:01:41,700 And masking symptoms! 18 00:01:41,836 --> 00:01:43,035 At the end of life! 19 00:01:43,170 --> 00:01:44,636 [ Thunder crashes ] 20 00:01:44,772 --> 00:01:47,306 [ Water splashes ] 21 00:02:30,217 --> 00:02:32,718 [ Child cries ] 22 00:02:35,222 --> 00:02:38,223 Ryan: Hey, guys! 23 00:02:38,325 --> 00:02:40,025 [ Crying continues ] 24 00:02:40,127 --> 00:02:41,160 Shhh. 25 00:02:41,295 --> 00:02:43,829 Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. 26 00:02:43,931 --> 00:02:47,166 It's okay, Joely, shh. 27 00:02:47,234 --> 00:02:48,901 Don't throw your head, buddy, don't. 28 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:51,303 Do you hear a baby crying? 29 00:02:51,438 --> 00:02:54,139 What do you think of that? 30 00:03:00,014 --> 00:03:01,446 Is there a baby crying? 31 00:03:01,615 --> 00:03:03,615 Elijah: Oh. Why? 32 00:03:03,751 --> 00:03:04,483 Ryan: Yes, he's crying. 33 00:03:04,585 --> 00:03:05,918 Here we go! 34 00:03:05,986 --> 00:03:08,153 Bouncing around! [ Chuckles ] Do you like that? 35 00:03:08,289 --> 00:03:10,289 [ Child laughs ] 36 00:03:10,424 --> 00:03:11,356 Elijah: Too funny! 37 00:03:11,458 --> 00:03:12,991 Ryan: Funny, yeah. That's so funny! 38 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,761 [ Joel yelling ] 39 00:03:15,896 --> 00:03:16,862 Ryan: Hi, Joel! 40 00:03:17,031 --> 00:03:17,529 Elijah: Hi, Joel! 41 00:03:17,665 --> 00:03:18,297 Joel: Dad! 42 00:03:18,399 --> 00:03:20,265 Amy: Do you see them? 43 00:03:20,401 --> 00:03:21,700 Ryan: Hi, Joel! 44 00:03:21,835 --> 00:03:24,169 Joel: Dad! [ Giggles ] 45 00:03:24,338 --> 00:03:26,338 Ryan: Hey, buddy! 46 00:03:26,407 --> 00:03:28,240 -Mwah! -Joel: More? 47 00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:29,675 Ryan: Thank you, Elijah. 48 00:03:29,843 --> 00:03:33,011 Elijah: Mom! Dad! 49 00:03:33,147 --> 00:03:34,513 Joel: Wa-wa. 50 00:03:34,615 --> 00:03:37,416 Ryan: What do you think? You want water? 51 00:03:37,551 --> 00:03:40,052 Want a drink? 52 00:03:48,462 --> 00:03:50,529 So what do you think, Isaac? 53 00:03:50,631 --> 00:03:52,931 He just -- 54 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,033 He's in the hospital so they're taking care of him. 55 00:03:55,102 --> 00:03:57,636 And that's how he gets his food. 56 00:03:57,705 --> 00:04:00,372 His food goes through that tube. 57 00:04:00,474 --> 00:04:02,107 Yeah! 58 00:04:02,209 --> 00:04:03,342 Yeah. 59 00:04:03,444 --> 00:04:05,944 You want to touch him? 60 00:04:06,013 --> 00:04:07,112 -Isaac: Yeah. -Ryan: Yeah? 61 00:04:07,181 --> 00:04:08,647 Why don't you just pat his cheek, okay? 62 00:04:08,716 --> 00:04:11,717 -Isaac: Okay. -Ryan: Okay. 63 00:04:14,021 --> 00:04:14,453 Pat his cheek. 64 00:04:14,555 --> 00:04:16,655 Yes. 65 00:04:16,790 --> 00:04:19,491 See? It's Joely. 66 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,126 You know, he doesn't smile very much? 67 00:04:21,195 --> 00:04:23,428 But when he saw you, he smiled! 68 00:04:23,497 --> 00:04:25,130 That's pretty great, huh? 'Cause you're his big brother! 69 00:04:25,232 --> 00:04:26,465 Isaac: Yeah. 70 00:04:26,567 --> 00:04:29,101 Ryan: Yeah. 71 00:04:39,413 --> 00:04:40,746 You like pulling your brother? 72 00:04:40,848 --> 00:04:42,014 Isaac: Yeah. 73 00:04:42,082 --> 00:04:46,418 Ryan: Yeah? Great job, Isaac! 74 00:04:47,988 --> 00:04:49,721 ♪♪ 75 00:05:01,835 --> 00:05:04,102 Ask if their refrigerator is running! 76 00:05:04,238 --> 00:05:05,771 Joel: [ Giggles ] 77 00:05:05,873 --> 00:05:07,072 Amy: Yeah! 78 00:05:07,141 --> 00:05:09,908 He's started standing and signing! 79 00:05:10,044 --> 00:05:11,943 Ryan: Ready? Go! 80 00:05:12,046 --> 00:05:14,680 Joel: Go, go! 81 00:05:22,323 --> 00:05:25,023 [ Ryan growls ] 82 00:05:25,125 --> 00:05:29,761 Joel: [ Laughs ] More? 83 00:05:29,897 --> 00:05:31,263 Ryan: More?! Okay, ready? 84 00:05:31,365 --> 00:05:33,465 [ Inhales sharply ] 85 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,134 Joel: [ Laughs ] 86 00:05:36,270 --> 00:05:39,504 Ryan: [ Laughs ] 87 00:06:05,966 --> 00:06:09,234 -I'm recording. -Amy: Okay, go ahead, Chris! 88 00:06:09,303 --> 00:06:11,236 Chris: Father, we thank you for this opportunity 89 00:06:11,338 --> 00:06:12,504 to come together as a family 90 00:06:12,573 --> 00:06:14,439 and to share this meal together. 91 00:06:14,508 --> 00:06:17,309 We just give you all thanks, Father, 92 00:06:17,378 --> 00:06:20,112 on this Thanksgiving day, for the restoration 93 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:23,148 that you are making in our family, 94 00:06:23,217 --> 00:06:24,282 for the restoration that you are making 95 00:06:24,351 --> 00:06:26,551 in each of our individual bodies 96 00:06:26,653 --> 00:06:27,686 on a daily basis. 97 00:06:35,963 --> 00:06:36,828 [ Joel yelling ] 98 00:06:36,997 --> 00:06:39,064 Amy: You're home! 99 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:41,633 We missed you! 100 00:06:41,735 --> 00:06:43,068 -Ryan: I'm hungry. -Amy: Oh, you are hungry? 101 00:06:43,203 --> 00:06:44,302 Ryan: Yeah. 102 00:06:44,438 --> 00:06:46,538 Amy: You're always hungry. 103 00:06:46,607 --> 00:06:50,709 We're tomorrow maybe gonna do a lunch thing. 104 00:07:03,924 --> 00:07:06,558 I knew that we wouldn't enjoy the time we had left 105 00:07:06,627 --> 00:07:10,996 if I was constantly trying to prepare myself to lose him. 106 00:07:11,098 --> 00:07:12,197 And eventually I came to the conclusion 107 00:07:12,266 --> 00:07:13,031 that I don't think it would really help me 108 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,467 to mourn him in advance. 109 00:07:15,569 --> 00:07:17,302 That I would much rather live like he's living 110 00:07:17,438 --> 00:07:19,237 than live like he's dying. 111 00:07:19,339 --> 00:07:21,506 And Ryan completely went there with me, too, 112 00:07:21,575 --> 00:07:22,874 and I think we're both really glad 113 00:07:22,943 --> 00:07:25,777 because it wasn't 4 months, it's been 2 1/2 years now. 114 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:29,281 And, so, boy, to spend 2 1/2 years perpetually thinking 115 00:07:29,349 --> 00:07:33,585 your son's about to die would be miserable. 116 00:07:33,754 --> 00:07:35,053 We've talked a lot about 117 00:07:35,122 --> 00:07:38,790 what we're going to include in the game from our lives 118 00:07:38,926 --> 00:07:41,293 and, unlike a movie or a book, 119 00:07:41,361 --> 00:07:42,260 where you have to have these moments 120 00:07:42,429 --> 00:07:43,829 that all string together, 121 00:07:43,931 --> 00:07:45,597 we can just say, "Here's a moment." 122 00:07:45,666 --> 00:07:48,600 It's like these little glimpses into our life. 123 00:07:48,669 --> 00:07:53,305 It's much more his creative outlet than it is mine. 124 00:07:53,373 --> 00:07:55,273 There are just things that Ryan and I have shared 125 00:07:55,375 --> 00:07:57,909 that no one else has shared with us about Joel 126 00:07:57,978 --> 00:08:02,614 and about raising -- raising a child that's supposed to die. 127 00:08:12,826 --> 00:08:16,428 Ryan: When people think about what a video game is, 128 00:08:16,530 --> 00:08:17,929 it's hard for them to wrap their head around 129 00:08:18,065 --> 00:08:20,565 what it is that we're doing. 130 00:08:20,634 --> 00:08:21,900 But I think most people wouldn't have a problem 131 00:08:21,969 --> 00:08:27,906 with a serious film or a book that talks about tragedy. 132 00:08:28,041 --> 00:08:29,007 Amy: You want to go swing? 133 00:08:29,142 --> 00:08:30,041 Joel: More. 134 00:08:30,177 --> 00:08:31,910 Amy: Of what? 135 00:08:32,012 --> 00:08:38,683 Ryan: I wanted to create a space for me to talk about my son. 136 00:08:38,852 --> 00:08:41,887 And for other people to love him 137 00:08:41,955 --> 00:08:46,658 and to have the joy that I have being his father. 138 00:08:48,161 --> 00:08:49,961 Pbht! 139 00:08:50,097 --> 00:08:50,996 Pbht! 140 00:08:51,164 --> 00:08:57,002 [ Joel giggles ] 141 00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:59,404 Amy: It was something that I've heard Ryan talk a little bit about, 142 00:08:59,506 --> 00:09:00,839 that he said that he just doesn't want 143 00:09:00,974 --> 00:09:03,441 Joel's actual cry in the game. 144 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:06,211 Which we'd never talked about. 145 00:09:06,346 --> 00:09:07,445 He just kinda, you know, was like 146 00:09:07,514 --> 00:09:09,080 "No, I'm not putting his cry in the game." 147 00:09:09,149 --> 00:09:10,715 And when I heard him say that, I thought, 148 00:09:10,784 --> 00:09:12,183 "Well, I don't know why you wouldn't." 149 00:09:12,252 --> 00:09:13,618 Like, if we're gonna put his laugh in the game, 150 00:09:13,687 --> 00:09:17,455 I don't know what's wrong with putting his cry in the game. 151 00:09:17,524 --> 00:09:19,057 Ryan: I think that subject of cancer, 152 00:09:19,126 --> 00:09:22,427 people are already sensitive to it and they're already like, 153 00:09:22,496 --> 00:09:24,329 cringing that you would even talk about it. 154 00:09:24,431 --> 00:09:28,099 And so I feel like crying would be pushing it 155 00:09:28,235 --> 00:09:29,301 just over the edge. 156 00:09:29,436 --> 00:09:30,468 Amy: But if you're having -- 157 00:09:30,571 --> 00:09:33,471 Okay, so, just -- so go with me here, 158 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:34,606 you're having someone crying in the game, 159 00:09:34,675 --> 00:09:38,043 so someone recorded their child crying. 160 00:09:38,111 --> 00:09:40,779 Ryan: But maybe that child was healthy. 161 00:09:40,847 --> 00:09:42,247 Amy: Does it make a difference? Ryan: I don't know. 162 00:09:42,349 --> 00:09:44,716 Like, I think there's so much that I don't know 163 00:09:44,785 --> 00:09:46,952 because we're doing something that people just don't do. 164 00:09:47,087 --> 00:09:48,053 Caleb: Mom, can I do some? 165 00:09:48,188 --> 00:09:50,221 [ Joel laughs ] 166 00:09:50,357 --> 00:09:51,590 Ryan: It's like, I don't know, 167 00:09:51,692 --> 00:09:54,059 do you point a camera at somebody on their death bed? 168 00:09:54,194 --> 00:09:55,560 Like, I don't know. 169 00:09:55,662 --> 00:09:57,562 Amy: But don't you assume people playing the game 170 00:09:57,664 --> 00:10:01,466 will assume that's Joel's cry, even if it's not? 171 00:10:01,568 --> 00:10:02,834 Amy: I mean, that's kinda where I go with it. 172 00:10:03,003 --> 00:10:04,069 Ryan: Perhaps. I mean, people -- 173 00:10:04,137 --> 00:10:05,537 Amy: They'll assume it's his cry anyway. 174 00:10:05,606 --> 00:10:06,771 Ryan: People have asked me, and I can say "No, it's not." 175 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,741 Amy: So you just like being able to say -- 176 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:10,942 Ryan: I like being able to say "No, that's not his cry," you know? 177 00:10:11,011 --> 00:10:14,179 And I would love to say, "But that's his laugh." 178 00:10:14,247 --> 00:10:15,947 -Amy: Sure. -Ryan: So... 179 00:10:16,083 --> 00:10:17,048 More bubbles! 180 00:10:17,117 --> 00:10:20,518 -Joel: Bubble! -Ryan: Bubble! 181 00:10:20,687 --> 00:10:23,989 Ryan: Down? Okay. 182 00:10:24,124 --> 00:10:25,724 Whoa! 183 00:10:25,859 --> 00:10:27,025 Gosh, he keeps falling. 184 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,994 Caleb: Elijah might have it. 185 00:10:29,062 --> 00:10:31,896 -Amy: More? -Joel: Bu-- 186 00:10:32,032 --> 00:10:33,898 Ryan: Hey! Say please? 187 00:10:33,967 --> 00:10:35,233 Caleb: But, I might be able to turn this into butter, though. 188 00:10:35,335 --> 00:10:38,003 Ryan: More apple? Apple? 189 00:10:38,105 --> 00:10:39,270 Caleb: I'm gonna turn this into butter! 190 00:10:39,373 --> 00:10:43,341 Ryan: Can you say please? Yeah. Good job! 191 00:10:43,443 --> 00:10:44,542 Caleb: I'm gonna turn this into butter! 192 00:10:44,611 --> 00:10:46,378 Who wants to see me turn this into butter? 193 00:10:46,446 --> 00:10:48,113 Ryan: That's not gonna turn into butter, dude. 194 00:10:48,248 --> 00:10:50,749 Caleb: Aww. 195 00:10:50,817 --> 00:10:55,353 Ryan: You know, I met Amy in theater when I was 16 and she was 15. 196 00:10:55,422 --> 00:10:56,855 You know, we were doing acting and stuff like that, 197 00:10:56,957 --> 00:10:59,557 and you approach the end of high school and you're thinking, 198 00:10:59,626 --> 00:11:01,793 "Oh, I'm gonna go to LA and I'm gonna be an actor," you know? 199 00:11:01,895 --> 00:11:04,529 Or "I'm gonna go to New York and [ Laughs ] be a play writer. 200 00:11:04,598 --> 00:11:06,931 I'm gonna be any of those things. 201 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,733 I'm gonna make art for a living." 202 00:11:08,835 --> 00:11:12,103 And then, you get a job, and you get married, 203 00:11:12,172 --> 00:11:13,338 and you get a mortgage, and you have kids, 204 00:11:13,407 --> 00:11:15,607 and all of a sudden, you know, 12 years later, 205 00:11:15,676 --> 00:11:22,347 and you're not doing those things. 206 00:11:22,449 --> 00:11:26,718 And yet, it wasn't until the last four years 207 00:11:26,887 --> 00:11:30,355 that I had anything real to say. 208 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:32,924 Ryan: Oh! Don't throw it! Do you want help? 209 00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:34,693 Do you want help, Joel? 210 00:11:34,828 --> 00:11:38,563 Okay, I took some reference photos of our house... 211 00:11:38,665 --> 00:11:40,699 -Nat: Uh-huh. -Ryan: ...which is messy 212 00:11:40,801 --> 00:11:43,001 but the cleanest that you'll ever see it, so. 213 00:11:43,136 --> 00:11:44,736 Nat: Is your whole house going to be in the game? 214 00:11:44,838 --> 00:11:48,106 Ryan: I would love to have the floor plan laid out. 215 00:11:48,241 --> 00:11:49,841 Let's see here. 216 00:11:49,976 --> 00:11:50,875 Both sets of boys share a room. 217 00:11:50,977 --> 00:11:54,212 So Joel and Elijah share this room. 218 00:11:54,347 --> 00:11:55,880 And Joel has the Pack 'n Play. 219 00:11:56,016 --> 00:11:57,348 I also want, like, 220 00:11:57,417 --> 00:11:59,651 I do want Joel to make an appearance in the game. 221 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,820 I don't really want to show him on the suffering parts 222 00:12:01,955 --> 00:12:03,922 because that might be too much, 223 00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:05,690 but there might be some moments -- 224 00:12:05,826 --> 00:12:07,292 when he's learning to walk 225 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,327 or when he's playing with his brothers. 226 00:12:09,396 --> 00:12:12,363 Like if we could create like a little avatar that -- 227 00:12:12,499 --> 00:12:15,200 that is cute, you know? 228 00:12:15,268 --> 00:12:16,634 Nat: Like we talked about before, 229 00:12:16,703 --> 00:12:20,839 So often, facial expressions are just hard to convey in a game. 230 00:12:20,974 --> 00:12:22,741 Ryan: Dead eyes and waxy faces. 231 00:12:22,809 --> 00:12:24,309 This is where, like, my limits as an artist are. 232 00:12:24,444 --> 00:12:26,778 Making like a blank expression 233 00:12:26,913 --> 00:12:28,880 that doesn't look angry, you know? 234 00:12:29,049 --> 00:12:30,615 Actually, I have a model. 235 00:12:30,684 --> 00:12:32,250 I was experimenting with this idea 236 00:12:32,319 --> 00:12:35,220 of only having the lips and the nose. 237 00:12:35,288 --> 00:12:37,655 Nat: What do you do with the blank ocular cavities? 238 00:12:37,791 --> 00:12:39,758 Ryan: Right! I don't know. 239 00:12:39,826 --> 00:12:43,962 I mean, we could also try like, no nose, no mouth, no eyes, 240 00:12:44,030 --> 00:12:45,597 and just have eyebrows or something. 241 00:12:45,665 --> 00:12:48,133 Nat: I wonder if people would see that character like 242 00:12:48,301 --> 00:12:49,768 with the audio and stuff, 243 00:12:49,836 --> 00:12:51,903 if their brain would fill it in and it would be like 244 00:12:52,005 --> 00:12:54,506 they're imagining the face, you know? 245 00:12:54,574 --> 00:12:56,574 Ryan: I think that actually might be really effective. 246 00:12:56,676 --> 00:12:58,309 And I want to remain kind of abstract 247 00:12:58,378 --> 00:13:04,749 because it's more about the emotion than it is like, 248 00:13:04,818 --> 00:13:06,751 recreating reality, you know what I mean? 249 00:13:14,494 --> 00:13:18,496 What do you think of that? 250 00:13:25,272 --> 00:13:27,639 [ Duck quacks ] 251 00:13:27,707 --> 00:13:28,773 Amy: Oh, guys. Give Joel some bread. 252 00:13:28,842 --> 00:13:32,477 Isaac: Mom, he threw the whole piece! 253 00:13:32,579 --> 00:13:34,045 [ Laughter ] 254 00:13:34,114 --> 00:13:35,613 Ryan: Well, Isaac, you've got to give him little pieces. 255 00:13:35,715 --> 00:13:36,748 He doesn't understand. 256 00:13:36,817 --> 00:13:38,883 Here you go, Joel, here's a piece. 257 00:13:39,019 --> 00:13:41,920 Okay, now you throw it. 258 00:13:42,022 --> 00:13:44,155 Isaac: Joel's almost 5, right? 259 00:13:44,257 --> 00:13:47,458 Amy: Yeah. 260 00:13:47,527 --> 00:13:49,627 Isaac: But he -- But he can't talk. 261 00:13:49,696 --> 00:13:54,165 -Ryan: That's true. -Amy: Yeah. 262 00:13:54,267 --> 00:13:55,800 Isaac: 3-year-olds can talk. 263 00:13:55,902 --> 00:13:57,335 Ryan: Yeah, I know. 264 00:13:57,437 --> 00:13:59,737 Isaac: Why can't Joel? 265 00:13:59,806 --> 00:14:05,410 Ryan: Well, Joel got sick right after he turned one, um... 266 00:14:05,478 --> 00:14:06,911 Amy: It kind of slowed him down a little bit, buddy. 267 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:12,517 Ryan: Yeah, so he's just slower than most kids. 268 00:14:12,586 --> 00:14:14,586 I think, eventually, he'll catch up. 269 00:14:22,295 --> 00:14:24,295 Amy: You want one? 270 00:14:24,431 --> 00:14:29,734 Ryan: Isn't that funny? 271 00:14:29,903 --> 00:14:34,405 Amy: Hi! 272 00:14:38,812 --> 00:14:40,111 Amy: What we have, it says, 273 00:14:40,213 --> 00:14:41,412 "The father begins to tell the story 274 00:14:41,514 --> 00:14:43,882 of the brave knight Joel fighting the dragon, Cancer. 275 00:14:44,017 --> 00:14:45,383 The kids begin to ask questions 276 00:14:45,485 --> 00:14:49,287 and the scene shifts into an 8-bit arcade-style game." 277 00:14:49,389 --> 00:14:52,457 Ryan: So, we have this little character running 278 00:14:52,592 --> 00:14:53,825 and there's like -- [ Roars ] 279 00:14:53,927 --> 00:14:57,128 and there's, like, flames coming of like, digital -- 280 00:14:57,197 --> 00:14:59,864 like little 8-bit flames coming out from behind him and stuff 281 00:14:59,933 --> 00:15:01,766 Ryan: And he's like running and running and he's jumping 282 00:15:01,902 --> 00:15:03,034 Amy: Yeah, yeah yeah. 283 00:15:03,136 --> 00:15:04,135 Ryan: Like everybody thinks video games are. 284 00:15:04,204 --> 00:15:05,403 Amy: And here's what I would love. 285 00:15:05,505 --> 00:15:06,471 I know that you don't want too many elements 286 00:15:06,539 --> 00:15:07,705 of like real game play in the game, 287 00:15:07,807 --> 00:15:11,342 but I would love if, in this scene, the player 288 00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:14,312 gets to where they're actually having fun in this 289 00:15:14,447 --> 00:15:15,914 and they have a moment of like, 290 00:15:15,982 --> 00:15:18,616 "I was having fun in the middle of this cancer game." 291 00:15:18,685 --> 00:15:21,586 People going through grief have to do that anyway. 292 00:15:21,655 --> 00:15:25,189 Does that make you uncomfortable? 293 00:15:25,325 --> 00:15:27,091 Ryan: [ Sighs ] 294 00:15:27,193 --> 00:15:29,527 Should we have the kids read these parts? 295 00:15:29,596 --> 00:15:30,995 Amy: Like when we're really recording it? 296 00:15:31,131 --> 00:15:33,665 Yeah. They want to. 297 00:15:33,767 --> 00:15:36,267 Ryan: Hey, guys! I want to tell you a story. 298 00:15:36,336 --> 00:15:40,438 It's a story of a very brave knight named Joel. 299 00:15:40,507 --> 00:15:42,340 Amy: [ As children ] Joel, the baby knight? 300 00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:43,207 Ryan: Yes. 301 00:15:43,343 --> 00:15:45,443 Joel, the very brave knight 302 00:15:45,578 --> 00:15:47,946 was being chased by a dragon named Cancer. 303 00:15:48,114 --> 00:15:49,580 Amy: 'Cause of his tumor? 304 00:15:49,716 --> 00:15:51,215 Ryan: Yeah. 305 00:15:51,384 --> 00:15:53,551 Amy: So, Joel has armor? 306 00:15:53,620 --> 00:15:55,987 Like a sword and a shield and stuff? 307 00:15:56,122 --> 00:15:57,889 Ryan: Mm-hmm. 308 00:15:57,991 --> 00:16:00,692 And he's not the only one who ever tried to fight this dragon. 309 00:16:00,827 --> 00:16:01,859 You know, some brave knights, 310 00:16:01,962 --> 00:16:03,594 they fought this dragon and lost. 311 00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:06,597 And some are able to drive the dragon off. 312 00:16:06,666 --> 00:16:08,933 And they can go home and they can quit fighting for a while 313 00:16:09,069 --> 00:16:10,335 and their kingdom is safe. 314 00:16:10,403 --> 00:16:14,272 Amy: The bad dragon is going to kill Joel. 315 00:16:14,407 --> 00:16:16,007 Joel is going to lose. 316 00:16:16,142 --> 00:16:17,775 Ryan: Mm, why do you say that? 317 00:16:17,944 --> 00:16:20,278 Amy: 'Cause Joel is just a baby! 318 00:16:20,413 --> 00:16:22,981 Babies can't kill dragons. 319 00:16:23,049 --> 00:16:25,883 Amy: [ As herself ] You're right. 320 00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:27,518 A baby can't kill a dragon. 321 00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:30,188 But that's the best part of the story. 322 00:16:30,323 --> 00:16:31,556 God fights for Joel! 323 00:16:31,658 --> 00:16:34,826 He fights that dragon, Cancer, right with Joel. 324 00:16:34,894 --> 00:16:36,961 And we know that God can win, even if Joel can't. 325 00:16:37,063 --> 00:16:41,699 Ryan: [ As children ] Well, what about Tim from church, Mom? 326 00:16:41,768 --> 00:16:44,969 He died from cancer. Wasn't God fighting for him? 327 00:16:45,071 --> 00:16:48,940 Amy: It may have seemed like the dragon won because Tim died, 328 00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:50,708 but we know that Tim is in Heaven 329 00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:54,312 and that he is with God and that God is so proud of him. 330 00:16:57,650 --> 00:17:01,419 -Ryan: It's good. -Amy: You like it? 331 00:17:01,521 --> 00:17:02,253 -Ryan: I do. -Amy: Are we gonna do it? 332 00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:05,356 Ryan: [ Sighs ] I think so. 333 00:17:05,458 --> 00:17:07,625 Amy: Ah! Yes! I really like this scene. 334 00:17:07,694 --> 00:17:10,194 And I was worried you wanted the whole thing to be poetry. 335 00:17:10,263 --> 00:17:12,463 And I think the poetry is really effective, 336 00:17:12,532 --> 00:17:13,731 but an hour of poetry is not fun. 337 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,633 Ryan: What if it doesn't -- [ Sighs ] Whatever. 338 00:17:15,702 --> 00:17:16,701 -Amy: But I love you. -Ryan: Love you, too. 339 00:17:16,803 --> 00:17:18,302 Amy: Thanks for working on this with me. 340 00:17:18,371 --> 00:17:20,004 -Ryan: It's good, baby. -Amy: I like that you like it. 341 00:17:20,106 --> 00:17:23,107 Ryan: No, it is good, and I like these -- I like these scenes. 342 00:17:23,276 --> 00:17:25,376 Amy: Okay. Gimme a kiss. 343 00:17:25,545 --> 00:17:27,378 Ryan: Oh...okay. 344 00:17:31,684 --> 00:17:34,719 Amy: We didn't fight at all! Ryan: It was close, though. 345 00:17:34,854 --> 00:17:40,091 I saw it on your face. 346 00:17:40,193 --> 00:17:41,459 Hey, Joel! Can I blow on your belly? 347 00:17:41,528 --> 00:17:42,927 [ Inhales sharply ] I'm gonna blow on your belly! 348 00:17:43,063 --> 00:17:43,961 Ready? 349 00:17:44,030 --> 00:17:46,130 -Joel: Pbht! -Ryan: Pbht! 350 00:17:46,199 --> 00:17:49,801 That's right! Ready? [ Inhales sharply ] 351 00:17:49,969 --> 00:17:51,436 [ Joel giggles ] 352 00:17:51,571 --> 00:17:52,203 Ryan: Pbht! 353 00:17:52,338 --> 00:17:54,405 [ Joel laughs ] 354 00:17:54,541 --> 00:17:55,073 Joel: Daddy. 355 00:17:55,241 --> 00:17:56,908 Ryan: Want more? 356 00:17:57,043 --> 00:17:58,776 More? 357 00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:00,044 Joel: Want more! 358 00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:03,748 [ Growls ] 359 00:18:03,883 --> 00:18:05,516 Ryan: There you are! 360 00:18:05,652 --> 00:18:06,284 Joel: Where'd it go? 361 00:18:06,419 --> 00:18:08,019 Ryan: Where'd it go? 362 00:18:08,121 --> 00:18:08,586 Ryan: [ Whispering ] Oh, there it is. 363 00:18:08,688 --> 00:18:10,154 Joel: Again! 364 00:18:10,290 --> 00:18:12,090 Ryan: [ Inhales sharply ] Pbht! 365 00:18:12,225 --> 00:18:14,625 Joel: Where'd it go? 366 00:18:14,761 --> 00:18:18,663 Ryan: I don't know. 367 00:18:18,798 --> 00:18:20,565 Joel: Where'd it go? 368 00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:27,171 [ Joel laughs ] 369 00:18:27,273 --> 00:18:29,474 Jon: I've got like 20 versions of each. 370 00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:30,942 [ Laughs ] 371 00:18:31,044 --> 00:18:35,413 [ Joel's laughter continues ] 372 00:18:55,802 --> 00:18:59,637 Josh: If the rest of the game plays exactly like it does now... 373 00:18:59,772 --> 00:19:00,605 Ryan: Mm-hmm. 374 00:19:00,673 --> 00:19:02,273 Josh: ...you're just exploring 375 00:19:02,342 --> 00:19:05,843 and experiencing narrative by moving around 376 00:19:05,945 --> 00:19:07,011 and clicking on icons. 377 00:19:07,147 --> 00:19:08,813 Ryan: Right. 378 00:19:08,882 --> 00:19:11,149 Josh: So does that mean you would be clicking on icons? 379 00:19:11,251 --> 00:19:12,517 Does that mean, you know, 380 00:19:12,585 --> 00:19:13,918 how does that action actually... 381 00:19:13,987 --> 00:19:19,323 Ryan: Well, I think everything needs to be accessible 382 00:19:19,392 --> 00:19:21,225 through point-and-click at this point. 383 00:19:21,327 --> 00:19:22,527 You know? Or if there's certain things 384 00:19:22,595 --> 00:19:24,328 that you have to do, like with regularity, 385 00:19:24,397 --> 00:19:26,998 like if you have to feed him through an NG tube, 386 00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:28,766 like you couldn't do it too fast, 387 00:19:28,835 --> 00:19:32,737 otherwise it would pop off the tube and squirt everywhere. 388 00:19:32,805 --> 00:19:37,375 We even still have a stain on our ceiling. 389 00:19:37,443 --> 00:19:38,743 But we don't -- we don't remove it 390 00:19:38,845 --> 00:19:40,912 'cause it just reminds us of that period of time 391 00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:42,747 when we were just like four months of feeding tubes. 392 00:19:42,815 --> 00:19:45,316 Amy: We don't remove it 'cause we're lazy! 393 00:19:45,385 --> 00:19:46,684 Ryan: No, I don't! I've thought about wiping it down. 394 00:19:46,786 --> 00:19:48,219 No, I've thought about wiping it down. 395 00:19:48,288 --> 00:19:49,554 I'm like "No, I'm not gonna wipe it down!" 396 00:19:49,656 --> 00:19:51,289 Amy: I like how noble your lack of cleaning is. 397 00:19:51,424 --> 00:19:52,623 Ryan: I'm not going to. 398 00:19:52,725 --> 00:19:53,524 Amy: Like, "It's because it's an emotional -- 399 00:19:53,660 --> 00:19:55,026 Ryan: It's a mark! 400 00:19:55,094 --> 00:19:56,027 Amy: It's because you didn't want to get up on the ceiling 401 00:19:56,196 --> 00:19:57,495 and wipe it off. 402 00:19:57,564 --> 00:19:58,930 Ryan: It's an emotional stain, babe! 403 00:19:58,998 --> 00:19:59,897 -Amy: Whatever. [ Laughs ] -Ryan: It's an emotional stain! 404 00:20:00,033 --> 00:20:01,032 Amy: It matches your heart. 405 00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:05,169 Ryan: Yes. 406 00:20:05,238 --> 00:20:09,173 Okay, guys, so we're gonna do this scene. 407 00:20:09,275 --> 00:20:11,075 And this is something that Mommy wrote, 408 00:20:11,177 --> 00:20:12,510 that was kinda similar to a conversation 409 00:20:12,645 --> 00:20:15,513 you guys had a long time ago. 410 00:20:15,582 --> 00:20:17,748 Ryan: We don't remember it word-for-word. 411 00:20:17,884 --> 00:20:18,883 Okay? 412 00:20:18,952 --> 00:20:20,351 So what we did was, we wrote it out 413 00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:21,652 and so where you see where it says "Dad?" 414 00:20:21,721 --> 00:20:23,854 -Caleb: Mm-hmm. -Ryan: I'm gonna say that line. 415 00:20:23,923 --> 00:20:26,257 Caleb: I'll say "Caleb" and Isaac says "Isaac." 416 00:20:26,326 --> 00:20:27,491 Ryan: Right. Do you see that Isaac? 417 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,026 -Isaac: [ Whispering ] Yes. -Ryan: So, like -- 418 00:20:29,095 --> 00:20:31,028 Caleb: Don't get embarrassed, okay? 419 00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:32,663 Ryan: Well, we won't worry about that 420 00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:34,865 because we're just gonna like, we're gonna sit on the couch, 421 00:20:34,934 --> 00:20:38,336 and we're kind of like, pretend we're in bed right now. 422 00:20:38,471 --> 00:20:41,105 Okay? 423 00:20:41,274 --> 00:20:43,307 Okay, you ready? 424 00:20:43,409 --> 00:20:45,309 Ryan: Hey, guys! I want to tell you a story. 425 00:20:45,378 --> 00:20:49,914 It's the story of a very brave knight named Joel. 426 00:20:50,083 --> 00:20:51,749 [ Whispering ] Isaac, you say -- 427 00:20:51,884 --> 00:20:52,516 Isaac: Joel, the baby knight? 428 00:20:52,652 --> 00:20:54,485 Ryan: Yeah! Say it again. 429 00:20:54,554 --> 00:20:56,220 -Isaac: Joel, the baby knight? -Ryan: Yeah! 430 00:20:56,356 --> 00:20:58,556 Joel, the very brave knight 431 00:20:58,691 --> 00:21:03,094 was being chased by a dragon named Cancer. 432 00:21:03,229 --> 00:21:04,195 Caleb: Because of his tumor? 433 00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:07,598 Ryan: [ Laughs ] Yes. 434 00:21:07,734 --> 00:21:10,201 [ Whispers ] Isaac? 435 00:21:10,303 --> 00:21:15,773 Isaac: Well, that dragon is going to kill Joel. 436 00:21:15,908 --> 00:21:17,708 Joel is going to lose. 437 00:21:17,844 --> 00:21:18,643 Ryan: Why do you say that? 438 00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,583 What do you think of that? 439 00:21:25,718 --> 00:21:26,917 Wait, hold on. 440 00:21:26,986 --> 00:21:29,520 Wait. Hold on, Caleb. What do you think of that? 441 00:21:33,026 --> 00:21:34,492 Does that make you sad? 442 00:21:34,627 --> 00:21:35,593 Isaac: No. 443 00:21:35,662 --> 00:21:36,927 Ryan: Do you not want to read anymore? 444 00:21:37,096 --> 00:21:38,129 Isaac: I still -- 445 00:21:38,264 --> 00:21:40,197 Ryan: Okay. Start here. 446 00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:41,766 "Because Joel is a baby..." 447 00:21:41,834 --> 00:21:47,538 Isaac: Because Joel is a baby and babies can't kill dragons. 448 00:21:50,376 --> 00:21:53,010 Ryan: Okay. That was pretty good, guys. 449 00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:53,577 Now should we listen to some of it? 450 00:21:53,713 --> 00:21:55,246 Caleb: Yeah. 451 00:21:55,315 --> 00:21:59,250 Ryan: You guys did a really good job. 452 00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,819 Ryan: But some are able to drive the dragon off. 453 00:22:01,888 --> 00:22:04,255 And they can go home and they can quit fighting for a while 454 00:22:04,357 --> 00:22:05,589 and their kingdom is safe. 455 00:22:05,658 --> 00:22:07,224 You know, Joel has been fighting the dragon 456 00:22:07,327 --> 00:22:08,326 for a long time, huh? 457 00:22:08,428 --> 00:22:10,328 Isaac: A long time? 458 00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:12,797 Ryan: Not a question. 459 00:22:12,899 --> 00:22:13,898 Isaac: A long time. 460 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,800 Ryan: A long time. 461 00:22:15,868 --> 00:22:18,336 Like you're like, have you ever been in the car so long 462 00:22:18,404 --> 00:22:21,172 you're like,"Ugh, I'm in the car soooo long." 463 00:22:21,307 --> 00:22:23,674 Caleb: Like that. 464 00:22:23,810 --> 00:22:25,076 Isaac: Because... 465 00:22:25,144 --> 00:22:26,744 Ryan: You say, "Well, that dragon..." 466 00:22:26,813 --> 00:22:31,315 Isaac: Well, that dragon is going to kill Joel. 467 00:22:31,417 --> 00:22:34,552 Joel is going to lose. 468 00:22:50,403 --> 00:22:52,636 Ryan: I feel pretty weary right now, emotionally. 469 00:22:52,772 --> 00:22:54,038 [ Laughs ] You know? 470 00:22:54,107 --> 00:22:58,676 Umm, it's interesting because when you're creating art, 471 00:22:58,778 --> 00:23:00,444 there's a certain level of abstraction. 472 00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:02,680 It's not real. 473 00:23:02,782 --> 00:23:06,117 And so even in the midst of working on a game 474 00:23:06,185 --> 00:23:08,719 about my son, who's terminally ill, 475 00:23:08,888 --> 00:23:10,788 there's a certain escape. 476 00:23:10,857 --> 00:23:12,323 [ Laughs ] And that's what kind of ironic about it, right? 477 00:23:12,392 --> 00:23:18,362 It's because a lot of times, people play games to escape. 478 00:23:18,431 --> 00:23:21,165 And even making a game allows me to escape, but... 479 00:23:21,334 --> 00:23:25,736 you can't escape forever. 480 00:24:14,987 --> 00:24:18,088 Joel: Da-da! 481 00:24:18,224 --> 00:24:20,491 Ryan: [ Laughs ] Okay, go! 482 00:24:20,626 --> 00:24:22,059 Joel: Ma-ma-ma! 483 00:24:22,195 --> 00:24:24,195 Ryan: No? Okay! 484 00:24:30,203 --> 00:24:31,535 Doctor: He's still having some cough, Wanda said. 485 00:24:31,637 --> 00:24:33,871 -Ryan: Uh, a little bit. -Doctor: Okay. 486 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:34,972 Ryan: But he always has a cough. 487 00:24:35,107 --> 00:24:36,507 Doctor: Okay. Any runny nose? 488 00:24:36,609 --> 00:24:38,242 Ryan: I don't think so. Runny nose, babe? 489 00:24:38,377 --> 00:24:41,045 Amy: No. No more than we've seen or we're used to used to. 490 00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:42,680 Doctor: And no fevers? 491 00:24:42,849 --> 00:24:45,149 Ryan: No fevers. 492 00:24:45,284 --> 00:24:49,019 [ Humming ] 493 00:25:23,155 --> 00:25:27,324 [ Monitor beeping ] 494 00:25:45,311 --> 00:25:49,246 He's just -- I don't know. 495 00:25:49,348 --> 00:25:52,349 He's just suspended there, you know, asleep, and... 496 00:25:56,689 --> 00:25:57,621 It's easy to think about it in theory 497 00:25:57,690 --> 00:26:01,191 until you actually see it, you know? 498 00:26:01,294 --> 00:26:02,826 And I've been able to see it a couple of times 499 00:26:02,962 --> 00:26:04,962 but you don't get used to it. 500 00:26:05,031 --> 00:26:10,267 He's just so, I don't know, helpless up there, you know? 501 00:26:14,006 --> 00:26:16,574 I hate this room. 502 00:26:16,676 --> 00:26:19,677 I didn't used to. 503 00:26:19,745 --> 00:26:24,682 For, um, for a moment, it was an adventure. 504 00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:30,054 I was cast as the compassionate and caring father, 505 00:26:30,156 --> 00:26:32,089 holed up with his fragile son 506 00:26:32,158 --> 00:26:34,124 in a small cleft in the rocks, 507 00:26:34,193 --> 00:26:39,597 the storm raging, waves ripping at the sharp black rocks below 508 00:26:39,665 --> 00:26:43,801 and enveloped in my arms, he feels safe. 509 00:26:43,869 --> 00:26:49,840 And I'm holding him firmly, trying not to slip. 510 00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:54,645 Because if you hold tight enough, nothing will take him. 511 00:26:54,747 --> 00:26:59,350 Right? 512 00:27:00,586 --> 00:27:01,986 Amy: Are you gonna wake him up? 513 00:27:02,121 --> 00:27:03,754 That's how he sleeps! 514 00:27:03,889 --> 00:27:04,955 Oh! He's already awake! 515 00:27:05,024 --> 00:27:07,524 So that was when he was 1 year old. 516 00:27:07,593 --> 00:27:10,594 About a year later, when he was 2. 517 00:27:10,663 --> 00:27:15,165 And this is probably six months after that. 518 00:27:15,301 --> 00:27:16,166 And I don't even remember -- 519 00:27:16,302 --> 00:27:18,569 He was probably 3 for this one. 520 00:27:18,671 --> 00:27:21,038 And then we decided, once we had the full set, 521 00:27:21,173 --> 00:27:23,507 that we had nothing else to give so we went ahead 522 00:27:23,609 --> 00:27:24,541 and let him put his butt on the wall. 523 00:27:24,644 --> 00:27:27,011 They let us put his butt on the wall. 524 00:27:27,146 --> 00:27:29,079 Ryan: Let him. They let us. 525 00:27:29,215 --> 00:27:30,280 Amy: So... 526 00:27:30,349 --> 00:27:31,615 Then we said we had the complete set 527 00:27:31,684 --> 00:27:34,284 and he could never come back, but we're back anyway. 528 00:27:34,353 --> 00:27:37,054 -So it didn't work. [ Laughs ] -Ryan: Didn't take. 529 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:39,723 Amy: What do you see? Go ahead! 530 00:27:48,968 --> 00:27:51,035 -Joel: More! -Ryan: More what? 531 00:27:51,103 --> 00:27:53,637 -Joel: More. -Ryan: Tickle? 532 00:27:53,739 --> 00:27:56,473 Joel: Ba-ba-ba-ba! 533 00:27:56,542 --> 00:27:58,876 Ryan: Yeah? [ Inhales sharply ] 534 00:27:58,978 --> 00:27:59,743 Ryan: Ahhh! 535 00:27:59,845 --> 00:28:00,744 No? 536 00:28:00,846 --> 00:28:04,915 Joel: Ba-ba! 537 00:28:05,017 --> 00:28:08,886 Ryan: What does this mean? Up? 538 00:28:09,021 --> 00:28:09,753 Ryan: Itsy bitsy spider? 539 00:28:09,855 --> 00:28:12,489 Joel: Ba-ba! 540 00:28:12,591 --> 00:28:13,390 Ryan: Spider? 541 00:28:13,459 --> 00:28:16,760 Isaac: Spider! Yeah, spider! 542 00:28:16,862 --> 00:28:18,395 Ryan: Yeah. 543 00:28:18,464 --> 00:28:25,369 ♪ The itsy bitsy spider went up the water spout ♪ 544 00:28:25,438 --> 00:28:31,108 ♪ Down came the rain and washed the spider out ♪ 545 00:28:31,243 --> 00:28:33,143 Man: Can you do it real quick? 546 00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:36,880 Ryan: Um, so hand position for "more" is like this. 547 00:28:37,016 --> 00:28:39,983 Go like this. "More." 548 00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:41,852 Man: Together? 549 00:28:41,921 --> 00:28:44,354 Ryan: And while we're at it, let's do a few more. 550 00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:46,256 This is gonna be "brother." 551 00:28:50,162 --> 00:28:52,830 Ryan: If you're watch any videos with babies with hand signs, 552 00:28:52,965 --> 00:28:54,865 they're very sloppy. 553 00:28:54,934 --> 00:28:59,069 You kinda have to know what you're looking for 554 00:28:59,138 --> 00:29:01,705 And you could also do a "no more." 555 00:29:01,774 --> 00:29:05,042 -Man: "No more" is shaking? -Ryan: Mm-hmm. 556 00:29:30,603 --> 00:29:34,371 So I wanted to reflect that here. 557 00:29:40,846 --> 00:29:42,713 And probably just exaggerate that a little bit more. 558 00:29:42,815 --> 00:29:45,549 Man: Wait, so he's just going, like, up and down? 559 00:29:45,618 --> 00:29:47,084 Ray: You know, just -- [ Imitates giggling ] 560 00:29:47,219 --> 00:29:47,651 Man: Okay. 561 00:30:02,334 --> 00:30:04,334 Amy: Yay, Joel! 562 00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:10,073 You did such a good job! 563 00:30:14,847 --> 00:30:16,180 Joel: Go! 564 00:30:16,282 --> 00:30:18,782 [ Laughs ] 565 00:30:23,355 --> 00:30:24,454 Amy: Hey, Ryan! 566 00:30:24,523 --> 00:30:26,423 I'm on my way home from the clinic 567 00:30:26,492 --> 00:30:28,692 and probably won't be too much longer 568 00:30:28,761 --> 00:30:30,427 but there's a little bit of traffic. 569 00:30:30,496 --> 00:30:34,231 Um, but you know how they celebrate off-treatment day? 570 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:36,533 So on someone's last day, they always like, 571 00:30:36,602 --> 00:30:38,669 bring them a cake and they sing to them like, 572 00:30:38,737 --> 00:30:41,338 ♪ "Happy off-therapy day to you!" ♪ 573 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,874 Anyway, that happened today. 574 00:30:43,976 --> 00:30:46,109 I mean, it happens a lot. 575 00:30:46,212 --> 00:30:48,679 But today, I cried. 576 00:30:48,747 --> 00:30:52,449 I just really want that day so bad, you know? 577 00:31:08,968 --> 00:31:14,638 Designer: My role a lot of times is to build the game in 3D. 578 00:31:14,740 --> 00:31:16,306 I have to play through it over and over and over again. 579 00:31:16,475 --> 00:31:18,709 So, whenever Ryan speaks, 580 00:31:18,811 --> 00:31:20,210 I added the ability to press a button 581 00:31:20,346 --> 00:31:22,079 to skip that part. 582 00:31:22,147 --> 00:31:25,082 And what surprised me about that was, 583 00:31:25,217 --> 00:31:27,918 there's a certain emotional feeling 584 00:31:27,987 --> 00:31:32,356 that you get from just skipping the audio over and over again. 585 00:31:32,424 --> 00:31:34,024 It almost feels like you're trying 586 00:31:34,093 --> 00:31:39,997 to skip past the soul of the game. 587 00:31:40,099 --> 00:31:44,501 I can only do it so much before, like, needing to take a break. 588 00:31:44,603 --> 00:31:48,338 Just because emotionally it's very odd. 589 00:32:07,726 --> 00:32:08,392 Amy: Over and over again, I have my doubts about, like, 590 00:32:08,494 --> 00:32:10,928 "Can people love Joel?" 591 00:32:11,063 --> 00:32:12,362 And I just know, like, 592 00:32:12,431 --> 00:32:15,565 they can't love Joel the way we love him. 593 00:32:15,634 --> 00:32:18,168 But I think that's the big experiment. 594 00:32:18,237 --> 00:32:20,070 They're gonna push the boundaries a little bit 595 00:32:20,172 --> 00:32:22,873 to say, "What can you experience emotionally in a video game? 596 00:32:23,008 --> 00:32:26,243 How can you connect?" 597 00:32:31,550 --> 00:32:34,251 It will have to be love itself and not the love of Joel 598 00:32:34,353 --> 00:32:37,688 that makes this game work, I think. 599 00:33:05,584 --> 00:33:09,152 Ryan: [ Laughs ] Hi, buddy! 600 00:33:09,254 --> 00:33:12,723 [ Laughter ] 601 00:33:12,858 --> 00:33:13,523 Isaac: Can I try? 602 00:33:13,592 --> 00:33:15,058 Caleb: Let Joel try. 603 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,661 Isaac: Joely! 604 00:33:17,796 --> 00:33:19,730 Caleb: You ready? 605 00:33:19,832 --> 00:33:24,701 Ryan: I think in America, we're very afraid of death. 606 00:33:28,307 --> 00:33:29,873 We don't like to talk about it. 607 00:33:30,009 --> 00:33:33,744 We hide it behind closed doors. 608 00:33:37,249 --> 00:33:38,782 I think that we're so afraid of death 609 00:33:38,851 --> 00:33:44,054 because we don't really believe that there's life after death. 610 00:33:44,156 --> 00:33:45,689 And I think that when you're brought 611 00:33:45,824 --> 00:33:48,325 to that moment of realizing, 612 00:33:48,394 --> 00:33:53,597 "Do I really believe in heaven or don't I?" 613 00:33:53,665 --> 00:33:57,200 I think being faced with Joel's demise, 614 00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:58,835 I kind of had to come to that point of -- 615 00:33:58,971 --> 00:34:02,072 Do we really believe in heaven? 616 00:34:11,050 --> 00:34:17,954 [ Joel coughs ] 617 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:19,256 I think that allows us 618 00:34:19,358 --> 00:34:24,628 to come face-to-face with the fear of death... 619 00:34:24,763 --> 00:34:30,133 ...and kind of move past it. 620 00:34:30,202 --> 00:34:31,902 And that's something that I want to articulate. 621 00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:33,570 I want to bring players face-to-face 622 00:34:33,739 --> 00:34:36,406 with that shadow of death 623 00:34:36,508 --> 00:34:39,342 and ask them what they really believe. 624 00:34:47,219 --> 00:34:48,452 Joel: Da-da! 625 00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:49,786 Da-da-da! 626 00:34:49,922 --> 00:34:52,289 Ryan: Hi, Joel! I found you! 627 00:34:52,458 --> 00:34:55,759 Amy: He's so excited to see you! 628 00:34:55,894 --> 00:34:57,227 Ryan: Ahh. Okay, okay, okay. 629 00:34:57,296 --> 00:34:59,396 Amy: So is this -- what kind of paper is this in India? 630 00:34:59,465 --> 00:35:02,299 Ryan: This is actually part of the India Times Network. 631 00:35:02,367 --> 00:35:03,467 Amy: Whoa! What are all of those? 632 00:35:03,535 --> 00:35:04,434 Ryan: It's just a bunch of Japanese links. 633 00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:07,370 People like keep picking it up. 634 00:35:07,439 --> 00:35:11,408 I mean I wonder if, like, in other countries this is more... 635 00:35:11,477 --> 00:35:13,977 They see games in a different light than they do in America. 636 00:35:14,113 --> 00:35:15,345 Amy: Like they're -- 637 00:35:15,414 --> 00:35:16,947 Ryan: Like they're more accepting of seeing it 638 00:35:17,015 --> 00:35:19,282 as something culturally significant. 639 00:35:19,418 --> 00:35:20,884 It says "That Dragon, Cancer," 640 00:35:20,953 --> 00:35:23,854 a game rapidly gathering pace and respect in the indie scene, 641 00:35:23,989 --> 00:35:24,721 may still be very -- 642 00:35:24,857 --> 00:35:26,590 [ Joel coughs ] 643 00:35:26,658 --> 00:35:27,858 It still may be very early in its development 644 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,461 but has the makings of something unusual and interesting. 645 00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:34,531 "Asking Green about the reasoning or indeed wisdom 646 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:35,866 of bringing these things together 647 00:35:36,034 --> 00:35:37,367 and he calmly underlines 648 00:35:37,503 --> 00:35:39,402 that this is what creative people have always done 649 00:35:39,471 --> 00:35:41,104 when faced with the insurmountable -- create. 650 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:42,639 Amy: Hmm, that's good. 651 00:35:42,741 --> 00:35:45,709 "That Dragon, Cancer" is already a big success. 652 00:35:45,777 --> 00:35:48,311 I'm looking forward to see how it develops 653 00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:49,579 in the long journey towards release 654 00:35:49,648 --> 00:35:51,281 and find myself praying with Green 655 00:35:51,383 --> 00:35:54,017 for his son both in the game and in real life. 656 00:35:54,086 --> 00:35:55,685 -Ryan: Hmm. -Amy: Does it have comments? 657 00:35:55,787 --> 00:35:59,422 Ryan: "I keep hearing about this game and it keeps annoying me 658 00:35:59,525 --> 00:36:01,825 that Joel's dad is turning his struggle into a piece 659 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:02,926 of interactive entertainment. 660 00:36:03,061 --> 00:36:05,428 It's like making a video of your kid dying 661 00:36:05,564 --> 00:36:07,297 and then posting it on YouTube. 662 00:36:07,399 --> 00:36:08,832 I'm sure the guy has convinced himself 663 00:36:08,967 --> 00:36:10,467 that he's got good intentions, 664 00:36:10,536 --> 00:36:12,736 though I notice he's not yet thought of any specific ones, 665 00:36:12,804 --> 00:36:16,673 but I have to say that I feel he's just...himself 666 00:36:16,742 --> 00:36:18,208 and this whole endeavor is just self-indulgence on his part." 667 00:36:18,377 --> 00:36:25,382 Amy: [ Sighs ] People are harsh. 668 00:36:25,551 --> 00:36:26,983 Ryan: Hm. 669 00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:29,319 You ready? 670 00:36:29,388 --> 00:36:32,822 -Jon: Yes, we are. -Ryan: Okay. How are my levels? 671 00:36:32,925 --> 00:36:34,491 Jon: Back up three inches for me. 672 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,563 Ryan: Fear is cancer's preservative. 673 00:36:39,731 --> 00:36:40,730 Fear is cancer -- 674 00:36:40,866 --> 00:36:42,232 Fear is -- 675 00:36:42,367 --> 00:36:46,736 Fear is cancer's preservative. 676 00:36:46,872 --> 00:36:50,674 Cancer's embalming oil. 677 00:36:50,809 --> 00:36:51,875 [ Scoffs ] 678 00:36:51,944 --> 00:36:56,680 And you, 'o accuser, are fear's oil salesman. 679 00:36:58,584 --> 00:36:59,849 -Jon: So, Ryan. 680 00:36:59,918 --> 00:37:01,351 -Here's a thought. -Ryan: Hmm? 681 00:37:01,420 --> 00:37:04,588 Jon: If you could like put your hands around the neck... 682 00:37:04,756 --> 00:37:05,722 Ryan: Yeah! Yup. 683 00:37:05,791 --> 00:37:08,291 -Jon: ...of cancer -- -Ryan: Yeah. 684 00:37:08,393 --> 00:37:09,826 Jon: It's like you got it pinned down and -- 685 00:37:09,962 --> 00:37:11,161 Ryan: Yeah. 686 00:37:11,263 --> 00:37:12,629 Jon: You're really gonna take your time with it. 687 00:37:12,698 --> 00:37:14,130 Ryan: [ Laughs ] Yeah, while I, like, collapse his throat. 688 00:37:14,266 --> 00:37:16,399 Jon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 689 00:37:16,501 --> 00:37:18,034 Like, you're -- like you're enjoying it. 690 00:37:18,203 --> 00:37:21,071 Ryan: [ Chuckles, sighs ] 691 00:37:21,139 --> 00:37:24,207 Jon: Hey, you know what I want you to do? 692 00:37:24,309 --> 00:37:26,142 Squeeze the...out of this while you do that. 693 00:37:26,278 --> 00:37:28,845 Ryan: Fear. I'm liable to cry. 694 00:37:28,981 --> 00:37:30,146 Jon: Choke that pillow. 695 00:37:30,282 --> 00:37:34,584 Ryan: [ Laughs, clears throat ] 696 00:37:34,653 --> 00:37:39,956 Ryan: Fear is cancer's preservative. 697 00:37:40,092 --> 00:37:43,159 Cancer's embalming oil. 698 00:37:43,228 --> 00:37:47,564 And you, 'o accuser, are fear's oil salesman 699 00:37:47,699 --> 00:37:50,166 because you're a snake. 700 00:37:50,335 --> 00:37:53,203 You're a serpent. 701 00:37:53,272 --> 00:37:56,072 A dragon with snuffed-out coal on his breath, 702 00:37:56,174 --> 00:37:58,775 molting, talons broken from the struggle 703 00:37:58,910 --> 00:38:01,511 to free yourself of your own skin. 704 00:38:01,647 --> 00:38:07,217 You, 'o accuser, are fear's oil salesman. 705 00:38:07,319 --> 00:38:10,654 And you, 'o accuser, are oi-- 706 00:38:10,789 --> 00:38:12,022 Fear's -- [ Clears throat ] 707 00:38:12,090 --> 00:38:15,458 And you, 'o accuser, are oil's -- 708 00:38:15,594 --> 00:38:16,693 [ Groans ] 709 00:38:16,795 --> 00:38:20,397 And you, 'o accuser, are fear's oil salesman. 710 00:38:20,499 --> 00:38:25,869 And you, 'o accuser, are fear's oil salesman. 711 00:38:25,937 --> 00:38:28,271 [ Crying ] 'Cause you're a snake. 712 00:38:30,242 --> 00:38:32,142 You're a serpent. 713 00:38:34,713 --> 00:38:38,348 You're a dragon with snuffed-out coal on its breath. 714 00:38:43,288 --> 00:38:50,527 [ Sniffling ] 715 00:38:50,662 --> 00:38:52,662 Hold on. [ Cries ] 716 00:39:00,605 --> 00:39:01,271 Jon: I think we'll be able to put it together, 717 00:39:01,406 --> 00:39:04,741 from that stuff on. 718 00:39:18,757 --> 00:39:20,790 Ryan: Okay. 719 00:39:23,528 --> 00:39:26,663 It's like I'm disappointed with God. 720 00:39:26,765 --> 00:39:29,265 -I'm angry at the devil. -Jon: Mm-hmm. 721 00:39:29,368 --> 00:39:31,634 -Ryan: You know? Jon: Mm-hmm. 722 00:40:43,341 --> 00:40:46,142 Ryan: Amy has this way 723 00:40:46,211 --> 00:40:49,579 of being able to keep her head above water. 724 00:40:49,648 --> 00:40:52,782 And a lot of times when we get hard news, 725 00:40:52,851 --> 00:40:56,252 she's very quick to assume everything's going to work out. 726 00:40:56,388 --> 00:40:58,755 And I just think that that is 727 00:40:58,824 --> 00:41:01,357 an important aspect of our battle with Joel is, 728 00:41:01,493 --> 00:41:04,461 in the middle of drowning, 729 00:41:04,596 --> 00:41:06,596 choosing rest. 730 00:41:45,403 --> 00:41:49,172 [ Indistinct talking ] 731 00:42:29,548 --> 00:42:32,015 Ryan: This will be a kind of an autobiographical game 732 00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:32,849 about our life fighting cancer. 733 00:42:33,018 --> 00:42:35,251 Man: Wow. 734 00:42:35,387 --> 00:42:37,654 Ryan: And then that's him. 735 00:42:37,722 --> 00:42:38,421 That was taken a couple of weeks ago. 736 00:42:38,590 --> 00:42:40,223 He's 4 1/2, so... 737 00:42:40,392 --> 00:42:42,559 Man: That's really brave. 738 00:42:42,727 --> 00:42:46,195 Ryan: Thank you. 739 00:42:46,298 --> 00:42:47,931 Josh: A lot of the effect is through the audio 740 00:42:47,999 --> 00:42:49,866 so that's why we suggest headphones. 741 00:42:50,001 --> 00:42:54,504 Woman: Gotcha. 742 00:43:31,242 --> 00:43:34,077 Joel: Go! [ Laughs ] 743 00:43:35,213 --> 00:43:36,946 Ryan: It's kind of weird to say it but like, 744 00:43:37,015 --> 00:43:38,047 fighting cancer is kind of a game. 745 00:43:38,116 --> 00:43:39,315 You know, It's like a game in our life 746 00:43:39,384 --> 00:43:44,354 where we're trying to find just the right formula 747 00:43:44,456 --> 00:43:47,657 to, like, to-to save our life, you know? 748 00:43:47,792 --> 00:43:49,025 To save my son's life. 749 00:43:49,194 --> 00:43:50,760 You know? And that's a mechanic. 750 00:43:50,829 --> 00:43:53,129 And so, like, when you start seeing the world 751 00:43:53,264 --> 00:43:54,631 through the lens of "What are mechanics?" 752 00:43:54,733 --> 00:43:57,166 and "What happens when mechanics fail?" 753 00:43:57,235 --> 00:43:58,801 Like, I think you see the potential 754 00:43:58,937 --> 00:44:01,537 of what games can be. 755 00:44:01,606 --> 00:44:03,473 Amy: Hey, babe, just got done at the doctor. 756 00:44:03,541 --> 00:44:07,276 Umm, now they think that maybe he's throwing up all the time 757 00:44:07,345 --> 00:44:09,345 because he has acid reflux, so... 758 00:44:09,414 --> 00:44:12,281 Ryan: Sunset looks pretty from here. 759 00:44:12,350 --> 00:44:16,486 Better than the muted colors of this hospital. 760 00:44:16,588 --> 00:44:20,523 Ryan: He won't stop crying. 761 00:44:21,292 --> 00:44:23,926 I don't blame him. 762 00:44:23,995 --> 00:44:31,534 And I'm holding him firmly, trying not to slip. 763 00:44:31,603 --> 00:44:36,606 Because if you hold tight enough, nothing will take him. 764 00:44:36,708 --> 00:44:38,608 Right? 765 00:44:39,944 --> 00:44:41,110 He sleeps. 766 00:44:41,212 --> 00:44:45,748 Thank you. 767 00:44:55,593 --> 00:44:58,127 Ryan: Thank you. 768 00:44:58,863 --> 00:45:03,766 Man: So, uh... 769 00:45:03,868 --> 00:45:05,968 Excuse me. Ryan: Thank you. 770 00:45:06,104 --> 00:45:07,637 Man: Uh, take care. 771 00:45:50,982 --> 00:45:54,016 Man #2: Good luck. Take care. 772 00:46:09,367 --> 00:46:11,200 Ryan: One of the first things people ask me is, 773 00:46:11,336 --> 00:46:13,736 "Was it kind of strange 774 00:46:13,805 --> 00:46:20,042 showing a game about terminal cancer to this environment?" 775 00:46:20,145 --> 00:46:21,511 I'm thinking, "Why is that so strange?" 776 00:46:21,613 --> 00:46:24,347 Why are we all walking around anonymous 777 00:46:24,449 --> 00:46:29,118 and not talking about the things that shape the way we are? 778 00:46:29,187 --> 00:46:30,419 One of the first things you think about 779 00:46:30,488 --> 00:46:34,590 when you're in the hospital with you kid is, uh... 780 00:46:34,659 --> 00:46:38,761 I'm surrounded by 500 families going through the same thing, 781 00:46:38,897 --> 00:46:40,663 but all the doors are closed. 782 00:46:42,133 --> 00:46:45,168 It's tragic to me. 783 00:46:45,336 --> 00:46:46,002 You're not alone. 784 00:46:46,137 --> 00:46:47,937 I'm not alone. 785 00:46:48,006 --> 00:46:53,176 I think we've been told a lie that it's safer to escape. 786 00:46:53,311 --> 00:46:55,211 And, um, I see people saying 787 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,779 "I use games as a form of escape." 788 00:46:56,915 --> 00:46:58,247 I mean, what are we escaping from? 789 00:46:58,316 --> 00:47:01,150 Are we gonna spend our whole life escaping from the thing 790 00:47:01,286 --> 00:47:02,685 that makes us, us, you know? 791 00:47:02,754 --> 00:47:05,221 The things that happen to us, define us. 792 00:47:05,390 --> 00:47:06,289 They make us who we are. 793 00:47:06,424 --> 00:47:08,424 They're complex, they're nuanced, 794 00:47:08,493 --> 00:47:12,662 they're tragic, and they're beautiful. 795 00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:43,292 Ryan: God. 796 00:47:43,394 --> 00:47:45,127 Like, it just -- We're on the brink, you know? 797 00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:49,365 And it's just like we -- we need something to go well, 798 00:47:49,467 --> 00:47:51,567 otherwise I could lose Joel in like, 799 00:47:51,703 --> 00:47:52,802 the next month or two. 800 00:47:52,971 --> 00:47:54,837 You know? 801 00:47:54,906 --> 00:47:57,974 And just so, seeing, like, the level of, um -- 802 00:47:58,142 --> 00:47:59,442 like the depth of emotion 803 00:47:59,510 --> 00:48:03,212 of the people that are playing it, like -- 804 00:48:03,314 --> 00:48:10,620 It just -- It reminds me just how heavy it is. 805 00:48:10,755 --> 00:48:13,289 [ Sobbing ] 806 00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:26,402 It's -- I just wish I could hold him right now. 807 00:49:05,743 --> 00:49:07,777 Amy: You think a doctor would understand if you were like -- 808 00:49:07,845 --> 00:49:09,011 -Ryan: Yeah, why not? -Amy: "His eye looks better. 809 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,247 -I want a new scan." -Ryan: Why not? 810 00:49:11,316 --> 00:49:13,716 If you -- Like, you're at this stage in everything, 811 00:49:13,851 --> 00:49:15,584 like, what's it gonna hurt 812 00:49:15,653 --> 00:49:18,254 to have parents hoping for, like, miracles? 813 00:49:18,356 --> 00:49:19,822 Amy: You're so much less mopey here. 814 00:49:19,891 --> 00:49:23,159 -Ryan: We're on our adventure. -Amy: I don't know. 815 00:49:23,261 --> 00:49:24,360 It's funny 'cause I feel like I always think 816 00:49:24,429 --> 00:49:26,729 every MRI is gonna be, like, amazing and clear 817 00:49:26,898 --> 00:49:28,564 and you never think that. 818 00:49:28,666 --> 00:49:31,734 And then now I feel like I'm less and less that way right now 819 00:49:31,903 --> 00:49:34,303 and you're more that way. 820 00:49:34,439 --> 00:49:36,205 Ryan: Yeah, I don't know, babe. 821 00:49:36,341 --> 00:49:39,041 Amy: I don't know, either. 822 00:49:41,713 --> 00:49:44,880 Amy: The trick is to keep squeezing it 823 00:49:44,983 --> 00:49:48,651 until there's nothing left in there. 824 00:49:48,786 --> 00:49:49,685 Caleb: Think that's it? 825 00:49:58,262 --> 00:50:00,129 Joel: Look! That! 826 00:50:00,264 --> 00:50:01,364 Ryan: Yeah, that's a bridge. 827 00:50:01,499 --> 00:50:06,335 That's the Golden Gate Bridge. 828 00:50:06,437 --> 00:50:09,105 Amy: We found out that I was pregnant 829 00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:11,707 the day before they found two or three new tumors. 830 00:50:16,147 --> 00:50:17,813 [ Voice breaking ] It's still a happy thing 831 00:50:17,949 --> 00:50:19,782 but it feels less important now 832 00:50:19,884 --> 00:50:24,153 because we're so focused on what's happening with Joel. 833 00:50:24,655 --> 00:50:28,057 [ Joel laughs ] 834 00:50:28,126 --> 00:50:29,792 Ryan: Are you gonna give Zoe a kiss? 835 00:50:29,861 --> 00:50:32,228 -Elijah: Yeah. -Ryan: Give Zoe kisses. 836 00:50:34,899 --> 00:50:39,368 -Amy: Can you say "Hi, Zoe?" -Elijah: Hi, Zoe! 837 00:50:48,146 --> 00:50:49,178 Amy: Isaac, you better go wash up your hands -- 838 00:50:49,247 --> 00:50:51,680 Ryan: Isaac, go wash off your hands, buddy! 839 00:50:51,783 --> 00:50:53,416 Caleb: 'Cause I feel like since this -- 840 00:50:53,518 --> 00:50:54,850 Ryan: No, no, no, Elijah! No! No! No! 841 00:50:55,019 --> 00:50:56,018 Caleb: My hand is sandy. 842 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,119 Ryan: Go wash off your hands with Isaac! 843 00:50:57,255 --> 00:50:59,321 Good grief. 844 00:50:59,390 --> 00:51:01,424 Getting them from the water to here 845 00:51:01,492 --> 00:51:03,325 -without dirty hands... -Amy: It's ridiculous. 846 00:51:03,461 --> 00:51:04,727 Ryan: ...is ridiculous. 847 00:51:04,829 --> 00:51:08,731 Caleb: See? Right there. Is that sand or...? 848 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,800 Amy: That might be a little bit of sand. 849 00:51:30,088 --> 00:51:35,124 Amy: [ Laughing ] You're ridiculous. 850 00:51:35,226 --> 00:51:36,692 Ryan: Okay, guys! Will you look at me? 851 00:51:36,861 --> 00:51:38,727 Amy: Okay. Look at Da-da! 852 00:51:38,863 --> 00:51:40,029 Look at Daddy and smile, okay? 853 00:51:40,131 --> 00:51:41,764 Ryan: Look at me, look at me, look at me! 854 00:51:41,899 --> 00:51:43,299 Hello! Hello! Hello! 855 00:51:43,367 --> 00:51:43,999 -Amy: Where's Da-da? -Ryan: Hello! Hello! Hello! 856 00:51:44,135 --> 00:51:46,869 Joel! Elijah! 857 00:51:47,004 --> 00:51:48,304 Smile, buddy! 858 00:51:48,372 --> 00:51:50,372 Amy: Okay, I'm gonna get them more bread, Daddy. 859 00:51:58,116 --> 00:52:02,184 Ryan: Run! Run away! Run away! 860 00:52:11,095 --> 00:52:14,463 It just feels like if we knew we were a week from death, 861 00:52:14,532 --> 00:52:16,132 -we would know that. -Amy: Yeah. 862 00:52:16,234 --> 00:52:18,100 Ryan: Because he would be showing all the signs 863 00:52:18,169 --> 00:52:19,468 -that they talk about. -Amy: Well, like -- 864 00:52:19,537 --> 00:52:20,703 Ryan: Or even some of the signs that they talk about. 865 00:52:20,771 --> 00:52:23,038 -Amy: Right. -Ryan: For end-of-life. 866 00:52:23,141 --> 00:52:23,772 Amy: And we haven't seen any of those things. 867 00:52:23,875 --> 00:52:25,341 Ryan: With that, yeah. 868 00:52:25,443 --> 00:52:26,609 Amy: By the time we get to that point, 869 00:52:26,677 --> 00:52:29,545 I don't know that a trial will be helpful anyway. 870 00:52:29,647 --> 00:52:32,281 So are we getting a week closer to that? Like -- 871 00:52:32,416 --> 00:52:33,682 I guess in theory, yes, 872 00:52:33,751 --> 00:52:36,952 but I'm comfortable with the way -- 873 00:52:37,021 --> 00:52:40,222 Like, I'm not panicked like we have to start tomorrow. 874 00:52:40,291 --> 00:52:42,725 Caleb: Uh, Mom? Joel won't take the cookies. 875 00:52:42,860 --> 00:52:44,260 Amy: Oh, yeah? 876 00:52:44,362 --> 00:52:45,561 He wanted a cookie but now he doesn't want a cookie? 877 00:52:45,630 --> 00:52:47,029 Caleb: Yeah. Amy: I'll go help him. 878 00:52:47,098 --> 00:52:49,732 Caleb: He wants, he wants a -- He wants fried chicken, so... 879 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,301 Amy: Oh, well, do you want to help him with that? 880 00:52:52,370 --> 00:52:53,869 Ryan: No, don't make him help with -- 881 00:52:53,971 --> 00:52:55,404 Amy: You have to tear off pieces. 882 00:52:55,473 --> 00:52:57,373 -Caleb: How long can I cook it? -Amy: I wouldn't even cook it. 883 00:52:57,441 --> 00:52:59,108 I'd just tear off -- Ryan: No. I -- Cook it. 884 00:52:59,177 --> 00:53:01,177 Amy: Okay, Mommy will come help with chicken. 885 00:53:01,245 --> 00:53:03,145 Elijah: Mom, can I have a cookie? 886 00:53:03,314 --> 00:53:05,614 Amy: Yes, you can have a cookie. 887 00:53:28,306 --> 00:53:31,207 Ryan: It's interesting to me that there's a huge church 888 00:53:31,342 --> 00:53:34,343 with crosses on it, 889 00:53:34,412 --> 00:53:38,581 and then the hospital right there. 890 00:53:38,649 --> 00:53:43,319 And I just -- I felt like most of the time 891 00:53:43,387 --> 00:53:46,755 we've been walking that line between both. 892 00:54:23,628 --> 00:54:26,228 [ Monitor beeping ] 893 00:55:55,419 --> 00:55:55,918 Ryan: [ Inhales sharply ] 894 00:55:56,053 --> 00:55:58,620 Ready? 895 00:55:58,723 --> 00:56:00,289 I think sometimes it's easier to retell pain, 896 00:56:00,424 --> 00:56:05,094 it's harder to encode joy. 897 00:56:05,229 --> 00:56:07,029 I got to figure that out still. 898 00:56:11,102 --> 00:56:12,301 Ryan: Ha! 899 00:56:12,403 --> 00:56:15,704 -Ooh. -Joel: [ Laughs ] 900 00:56:15,873 --> 00:56:21,443 Ryan: [ Laughs ] 901 00:56:21,612 --> 00:56:23,145 Ha! Boom! 902 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,148 [ Joel's laughter continues ] 903 00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:29,418 Ryan: I was telling Caleb that Joel's doing really well. 904 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:30,986 Amy: He's doing really well? 905 00:56:31,055 --> 00:56:33,422 Ryan: Yeah. Amy: Looks real happy! 906 00:56:33,491 --> 00:56:37,126 Ryan: He's been very peaceful all afternoon. 907 00:56:50,541 --> 00:56:53,142 I can tell you what it's like to be me, you know? 908 00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:56,044 And I can tell you what it's like to be with Joel 909 00:56:56,113 --> 00:56:58,013 but I can't tell you much about Joel. 910 00:57:01,352 --> 00:57:04,553 'Cause I don't know him that well. 911 00:57:04,622 --> 00:57:06,221 I know what it's like to love him 912 00:57:06,323 --> 00:57:07,456 and I know what it's like to be with him 913 00:57:07,591 --> 00:57:09,892 and I know what it's like to play with him 914 00:57:10,027 --> 00:57:11,293 and get that response, 915 00:57:11,395 --> 00:57:15,330 but I don't know what he's thinking. 916 00:57:15,399 --> 00:57:17,132 I don't know what he thinks about all of this. 917 00:57:17,268 --> 00:57:19,568 I wish I knew. 918 00:57:19,637 --> 00:57:21,703 And I have hope that someday I will. 919 00:57:25,176 --> 00:57:29,711 Amy: I feel like now we just kinda record everything. 920 00:57:29,780 --> 00:57:31,046 [ Voice breaking ] There's just sort of this feeling 921 00:57:31,148 --> 00:57:34,416 that you should capture whatever you can. 922 00:57:34,518 --> 00:57:38,520 Capturing the good and the bad and the sad and the happy and... 923 00:57:38,589 --> 00:57:40,122 Doctor: His swallow is a little slow... 924 00:57:40,224 --> 00:57:42,558 Amy: ...kinda deciding later what's important. 925 00:57:42,626 --> 00:57:45,861 Because I think you wouldn't want to not capture it 926 00:57:45,996 --> 00:57:49,364 and know you couldn't go back. 927 00:57:49,467 --> 00:57:51,800 Ryan: [ Inhales sharply ] Ready? Go! 928 00:57:51,969 --> 00:57:55,704 Joel: [ Laughs ] 929 00:58:02,446 --> 00:58:04,947 Trainer: He's fine. [ Laughs ] 930 00:58:05,082 --> 00:58:11,753 Woman: Aww. 931 00:58:11,889 --> 00:58:13,522 Ryan: Now you can draw. 932 00:58:13,657 --> 00:58:15,891 Yeah! 933 00:58:16,026 --> 00:58:18,060 This is Mama's card. 934 00:58:18,162 --> 00:58:20,095 Ryan: Okay! Here's for Mommy. 935 00:58:20,197 --> 00:58:23,832 Amy: It says -- "To Mommy." 936 00:58:23,901 --> 00:58:26,568 "Dear Mommy, I love you with all my heart 937 00:58:26,637 --> 00:58:28,237 and you love me with all your heart. 938 00:58:28,339 --> 00:58:29,638 So we match! Love, Joel." 939 00:58:29,707 --> 00:58:32,107 Look -- he did so much coloring! 940 00:58:32,209 --> 00:58:33,542 Ryan: He did lots of coloring 941 00:58:33,611 --> 00:58:36,345 and he wanted to do all the different colors. 942 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:37,713 Amy: Aw. Good job, Joel. 943 00:58:51,061 --> 00:58:51,693 [ Engine revs ] 944 00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:54,196 [ Crowd cheering ] 945 00:58:54,331 --> 00:58:57,699 [ Simulation beeping ] 946 00:59:17,388 --> 00:59:20,022 [ Triumphant music plays ] 947 00:59:20,157 --> 00:59:23,592 [ Beeping ] 948 00:59:32,436 --> 00:59:36,438 [ Siren wailing in distance ] 949 00:59:41,245 --> 00:59:42,744 [ Helicopter blades whirring ] 950 00:59:54,291 --> 00:59:58,026 Amy: Do you want one? 951 00:59:58,162 --> 00:59:59,595 Do you want to eat it? 952 00:59:59,763 --> 00:59:59,828 No? Okay. 953 01:00:04,969 --> 01:00:07,002 Joel: No! 954 01:00:07,137 --> 01:00:09,671 No! 955 01:00:13,777 --> 01:00:17,713 -Ryan: Yo. -Josh: How's it going? 956 01:00:17,848 --> 01:00:19,081 Ryan: It's going all right. 957 01:00:19,149 --> 01:00:20,882 -Josh: Yeah? -Ryan: Yeah. 958 01:00:20,951 --> 01:00:22,517 Josh: So they've -- they've already started doing 959 01:00:22,620 --> 01:00:24,019 some toxicity tests and stuff? 960 01:00:24,121 --> 01:00:28,123 Ryan: So they've given us a number of 10% that it will work. 961 01:00:28,192 --> 01:00:29,424 -At all. -Josh: Yeah. 962 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,526 -Ryan: So... 963 01:00:31,695 --> 01:00:33,295 -Joel: Where go? 964 01:00:33,364 --> 01:00:37,332 -Ryan: What? -Amy: Where'd he go? 965 01:00:37,401 --> 01:00:40,836 -Ryan: Where'd he go? -Joel: Where'd he go? 966 01:00:40,904 --> 01:00:43,505 Ryan: Where'd Josh go? Uh... 967 01:00:43,641 --> 01:00:45,741 [ Joel laughs ] 968 01:00:47,645 --> 01:00:50,178 Joel: Where'd he go? Where'd he go? 969 01:00:50,314 --> 01:00:52,781 Ryan: I don't know. 970 01:00:52,916 --> 01:00:53,515 Where'd he go? 971 01:00:53,651 --> 01:00:57,786 [ Joel laughs ] 972 01:01:00,658 --> 01:01:02,924 -Ryan: Where'd he go? -Joel: Hey, you! 973 01:01:03,060 --> 01:01:06,328 [ Laughs ] 974 01:01:06,430 --> 01:01:07,329 Ryan: He said -- He said "Hey, you!" 975 01:01:07,498 --> 01:01:11,533 Amy: It sounded like "Hey, you!" 976 01:03:15,459 --> 01:03:19,761 [ Pop! ] -Ryan: [ Gasps ] 977 01:03:50,961 --> 01:03:55,430 Josh: People have asked, "Well, how does the game end?" 978 01:03:55,532 --> 01:03:58,500 We know where we want to leave people, 979 01:03:58,569 --> 01:04:01,102 but the way we have it, sort of scripted right now, 980 01:04:01,171 --> 01:04:02,737 might change, based on, you know, 981 01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,141 what happens in the next, uh, few weeks here. 982 01:04:13,250 --> 01:04:15,717 Josh: If Ryan had to crawl in a hole for a month 983 01:04:15,886 --> 01:04:17,586 or however long, 984 01:04:17,654 --> 01:04:22,557 we would and could continue on the game. 985 01:04:22,626 --> 01:04:23,959 Josh: You know, the game will be made. 986 01:04:24,127 --> 01:04:28,363 Put it that way. 987 01:04:28,465 --> 01:04:30,866 Jon: Some of the editing I've been doing is 988 01:04:31,001 --> 01:04:33,301 spectrograph-based. 989 01:04:33,370 --> 01:04:35,804 This is what his laugh looks like, as far as like, 990 01:04:35,873 --> 01:04:37,873 a frequency, so it's a lot like a fingerprint, you know. 991 01:04:37,941 --> 01:04:43,845 And like I actually started wondering like, if, uh, 992 01:04:43,914 --> 01:04:47,649 if I looked at enough of this, like, would I see something? 993 01:04:47,718 --> 01:04:54,923 Like, would I see, um, him somehow, you know? 994 01:04:55,058 --> 01:04:56,858 Yeah. 995 01:04:56,994 --> 01:04:59,761 Pretty cool. 996 01:05:22,653 --> 01:05:25,687 Ryan: [ Sighs ] 997 01:05:25,756 --> 01:05:28,156 One scan can like, flip everything on its head 998 01:05:28,292 --> 01:05:29,658 in a moment, you know? 999 01:05:29,793 --> 01:05:33,194 Like, um... 1000 01:05:33,297 --> 01:05:34,863 One night you're in San Francisco 1001 01:05:34,932 --> 01:05:38,700 and one night you're back home, on an oxygen tank, you know? 1002 01:05:38,769 --> 01:05:42,804 And uh, it just switches that quickly. 1003 01:05:42,873 --> 01:05:46,608 I think with Joel, I don't want to hide from it. 1004 01:05:46,743 --> 01:05:48,043 I think there is, uh -- 1005 01:05:48,211 --> 01:05:49,411 [ Sighs ] 1006 01:05:49,546 --> 01:05:51,913 temptation early on, you know? 1007 01:05:51,982 --> 01:05:54,182 When he was 2 and they were telling us he was gonna die 1008 01:05:54,318 --> 01:05:56,351 and it's like, well... 1009 01:05:56,420 --> 01:06:00,288 "If I don't love him, then I won't be hurt by it," you know? 1010 01:06:00,357 --> 01:06:02,057 And he's young and I don't know him 1011 01:06:02,159 --> 01:06:04,292 and, you know, there's that detachment. 1012 01:06:04,394 --> 01:06:09,531 You can like allow yourself never to fully love, um, 1013 01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:11,399 someone that you're gonna lose, you know? 1014 01:06:11,501 --> 01:06:13,835 And instead, I just want to be like, all in. 1015 01:06:13,971 --> 01:06:21,977 In every way. 1016 01:06:22,112 --> 01:06:23,278 [ Laughter ] 1017 01:06:23,347 --> 01:06:25,580 Ryan: Sorry. The kids are finally coming in. 1018 01:06:25,716 --> 01:06:29,684 Man: It's okay. 1019 01:06:29,786 --> 01:06:31,486 Ryan: We're gonna go say hi to the nurse, okay, Joel? 1020 01:06:31,555 --> 01:06:34,556 -Amy: Okay. That's good there. 1021 01:06:37,127 --> 01:06:38,293 Now what we're gonna have to do 1022 01:06:38,362 --> 01:06:40,261 is set him up on two different pain pumps. 1023 01:06:40,330 --> 01:06:41,830 -Amy: Okay. Nurse: Hey, buddy. 1024 01:06:41,965 --> 01:06:43,598 Ryan: Here, sweetheart. 1025 01:06:43,767 --> 01:06:47,302 Okay, baby. There you go. 1026 01:06:50,007 --> 01:06:50,872 Nurse: Hi! 1027 01:06:51,008 --> 01:06:53,375 Ryan: He's calmed down now. 1028 01:06:53,443 --> 01:06:57,312 -That's the nurse. -Nurse: Hi! 1029 01:06:57,381 --> 01:07:00,348 My hands are very cold. [ Chuckles ] 1030 01:07:00,517 --> 01:07:01,716 Hi there! 1031 01:07:01,785 --> 01:07:04,919 So is he ever alert and walkin' around? 1032 01:07:05,055 --> 01:07:05,820 Ryan: No, he doesn't walk anymore. 1033 01:07:05,956 --> 01:07:07,555 Amy: Yeah, so he stopped -- 1034 01:07:07,624 --> 01:07:09,457 I mean, for probably four or five weeks, 1035 01:07:09,559 --> 01:07:11,159 stopped walking, standing, crawling. 1036 01:07:11,228 --> 01:07:12,260 Nurse: So, they took the tube out today? 1037 01:07:12,329 --> 01:07:13,695 -Amy: Mm-hmm. -Ryan: We did. 1038 01:07:13,764 --> 01:07:15,063 -Yeah. -Nurse: Okay. 1039 01:07:15,132 --> 01:07:17,098 Amy: But then that made us wonder about fluids for him 1040 01:07:17,167 --> 01:07:18,400 because we're like "Eh, maybe he doesn't need 1041 01:07:18,468 --> 01:07:19,901 all the food intake, but he probably still needs -- 1042 01:07:19,970 --> 01:07:22,470 -Nurse: A little bit of fluids. -Amy: Some fluids. 1043 01:07:22,539 --> 01:07:24,172 Nurse: We traditionally don't do I.V. fluids. 1044 01:07:24,307 --> 01:07:27,709 So, it's -- you probably -- 1045 01:07:27,844 --> 01:07:29,477 We'll discuss it with the doctor. 1046 01:07:29,613 --> 01:07:30,512 Amy: Sure. 1047 01:07:30,580 --> 01:07:31,546 -Nurse: And, um -- -Ryan: How come? 1048 01:07:31,648 --> 01:07:32,580 -Just -- -Nurse: Kind of what your -- 1049 01:07:32,649 --> 01:07:37,252 Um, it's not a goal of hospice to... 1050 01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:38,053 -Ryan: Sure. -Nurse: ...to, you know -- 1051 01:07:38,155 --> 01:07:39,120 Ryan: To keep him hydrated. 1052 01:07:39,256 --> 01:07:40,188 Nurse: To keep him comfortable. 1053 01:07:40,257 --> 01:07:41,389 -Ryan: Understood. -Amy: Okay. 1054 01:07:41,491 --> 01:07:43,758 Ryan: That could accelerate things, though. 1055 01:07:43,894 --> 01:07:46,828 Nurse: It could. Yeah. 1056 01:07:46,963 --> 01:07:49,030 So... 1057 01:07:56,807 --> 01:08:02,177 We can titrate the medications if you guys want. 1058 01:08:02,245 --> 01:08:06,481 So what we're gonna start him on is 0.1 milligram. 1059 01:08:06,550 --> 01:08:09,851 Um, if there's error or something and it's beeping, 1060 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:10,685 you know you could press that. 1061 01:08:14,357 --> 01:08:16,791 And, you know, we're available 24/7. 1062 01:08:16,927 --> 01:08:19,461 So, you guys have our number. 1063 01:08:49,826 --> 01:08:52,160 Ryan: I'm trying to rationalize to myself 1064 01:08:52,262 --> 01:08:55,897 why I'm talking to you right now. 1065 01:08:55,966 --> 01:08:59,734 And like, why I'm even allowing you here, and why, um, 1066 01:08:59,803 --> 01:09:04,005 I do this stuff with the game and why -- 1067 01:09:04,174 --> 01:09:06,708 [ Sighs ] 1068 01:09:09,012 --> 01:09:12,213 I guess my only answer is I don't know what else I'd do. 1069 01:09:12,349 --> 01:09:14,816 And that I just -- 1070 01:09:14,918 --> 01:09:19,621 I feel just this compulsion to just share it, 1071 01:09:19,789 --> 01:09:21,322 to talk about it, 1072 01:09:21,424 --> 01:09:23,124 because I-I kind of want to capture it 1073 01:09:23,226 --> 01:09:27,328 because as soon as it's gone, it'll be a shadow 1074 01:09:27,397 --> 01:09:29,898 and I won't be able to remember it. 1075 01:09:30,033 --> 01:09:35,036 I don't want -- 1076 01:09:35,205 --> 01:09:37,705 [ Sighs ] 1077 01:09:39,476 --> 01:09:43,011 I'm so scared I'm gonna forget Joel. 1078 01:09:50,620 --> 01:09:52,620 [ Sighs ] 1079 01:09:57,494 --> 01:10:00,228 I don't want to forget him. 1080 01:10:09,306 --> 01:10:13,508 [ Sighs ] So maybe I'm... 1081 01:10:24,454 --> 01:10:26,988 ...pointing as many cameras as I can at him. 1082 01:10:27,157 --> 01:10:30,692 [ Laughs ] At us. 1083 01:10:30,860 --> 01:10:34,362 Just freeze this moment. 1084 01:10:39,936 --> 01:10:45,273 All: ♪ I will love you ♪ 1085 01:10:45,342 --> 01:10:47,842 ♪ Forever all my days ♪ 1086 01:10:47,944 --> 01:10:52,880 ♪ I will love you right ♪ 1087 01:10:52,949 --> 01:10:58,553 ♪ Hallelujah, our God reigns ♪ 1088 01:10:58,622 --> 01:11:05,627 ♪ Hallelujah, our God reigns ♪ 1089 01:11:05,695 --> 01:11:12,400 ♪ Forever all my days, hallelujah ♪ 1090 01:12:37,454 --> 01:12:39,620 Isaac: I want to jump. Watch me! 1091 01:12:39,689 --> 01:12:41,356 Amy: When you jump, does it jump? 1092 01:12:41,424 --> 01:12:43,057 -Isaac: No. -Caleb: You can try. 1093 01:12:43,159 --> 01:12:44,892 -You can try it. -Elijah: Jump! 1094 01:12:45,028 --> 01:12:45,860 Amy: Ah, you're right. 1095 01:12:46,029 --> 01:12:47,428 Elijah: I want to try it! 1096 01:12:47,564 --> 01:12:51,599 I want to try it! It's my turn! 1097 01:12:51,668 --> 01:12:54,335 Amy: It's your turn? Do you want to go after Caleb? 1098 01:12:54,404 --> 01:12:56,003 Elijah: Yeah. Amy: Okay. 1099 01:12:56,139 --> 01:12:58,673 That'd be fun. 1100 01:13:01,311 --> 01:13:02,343 Caleb: I want to hold Zoe! 1101 01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:05,213 Amy: Do you want to hold Zoe? 1102 01:13:05,348 --> 01:13:07,682 Caleb: Mom, I want to hold Zoe. 1103 01:13:07,751 --> 01:13:09,350 Amy: I can help you with the pacifier. 1104 01:13:09,419 --> 01:13:11,786 Caleb: She was holding it back though, so. 1105 01:13:16,826 --> 01:13:18,893 Amy: If you just talk to her a little bit, 1106 01:13:19,062 --> 01:13:21,095 she likes that the best. 1107 01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:24,632 Caleb: Shh, Zoe. 1108 01:13:30,940 --> 01:13:34,142 Ryan: This last act is a matter of asking the player 1109 01:13:34,277 --> 01:13:35,676 to choose rest. 1110 01:13:35,745 --> 01:13:37,645 Also, asking the player to let Joel go. 1111 01:13:41,551 --> 01:13:42,917 -Amy: I like it. -Ryan: So... 1112 01:13:42,986 --> 01:13:44,252 Now you're -- Now you're the player. 1113 01:13:44,354 --> 01:13:45,019 So, whereas before, you've been you, 1114 01:13:45,155 --> 01:13:46,921 you've been me, 1115 01:13:47,023 --> 01:13:50,391 you've caught where we're coming from. 1116 01:13:50,460 --> 01:13:51,125 Now in the cathedral, I'm asking you, 1117 01:13:51,261 --> 01:13:53,594 "So, how do you feel?" 1118 01:13:53,663 --> 01:13:56,264 And so you're presented with this scenario 1119 01:13:56,366 --> 01:13:57,532 where you have all these levers to pull. 1120 01:13:57,634 --> 01:14:00,735 And then, at some point they pull a lever 1121 01:14:00,904 --> 01:14:02,170 and this thing comes up. 1122 01:14:02,238 --> 01:14:04,338 So "boom", you know? And now there's a keyboard. 1123 01:14:04,407 --> 01:14:06,441 "Okay, I've found something," right? 1124 01:14:06,576 --> 01:14:07,675 Amy: Mm-hmm. 1125 01:14:07,744 --> 01:14:08,709 Ryan: And now the keyboard starts to play. 1126 01:14:08,778 --> 01:14:12,380 And so, it's playing automatically, 1127 01:14:12,482 --> 01:14:14,048 and you can either choose to play with it 1128 01:14:14,184 --> 01:14:15,450 or play against it. 1129 01:14:15,518 --> 01:14:18,352 But like, whenever you play against it, 1130 01:14:18,488 --> 01:14:21,322 you're creating dissonance. 1131 01:14:21,424 --> 01:14:23,090 And so, it's this matter of like playing along 1132 01:14:23,226 --> 01:14:26,127 with what's happening. 1133 01:14:26,196 --> 01:14:27,295 It's resting in what's happening... 1134 01:14:27,363 --> 01:14:28,663 -Amy: Mm-hmm. -Ryan: ...rather, you know? 1135 01:14:28,731 --> 01:14:31,466 And then eventually, you get back to the forest 1136 01:14:31,568 --> 01:14:37,238 and I changed this -- Amy: Aww. 1137 01:14:37,340 --> 01:14:39,807 -I like that. -Ryan: [ Whispers ] Yeah. 1138 01:14:39,876 --> 01:14:41,242 Amy: [ Laughs ] Is he telling you to "come on?" 1139 01:14:41,377 --> 01:14:43,177 Ryan: So he's more active. 1140 01:14:43,313 --> 01:14:44,245 Like, yeah, that could be it, 1141 01:14:44,347 --> 01:14:46,214 or I was like either he's like saying 1142 01:14:46,316 --> 01:14:48,082 "Come on, come on," or he's like popping a -- 1143 01:14:48,184 --> 01:14:51,352 -Amy: A bubble. -Ryan: A bubble. 1144 01:14:51,454 --> 01:14:53,621 Amy: So the last you see us is on the island. 1145 01:14:53,756 --> 01:14:54,856 Ryan: Mm-hmm. 1146 01:14:54,924 --> 01:14:56,324 Amy: And then Joel goes here without us -- 1147 01:14:56,392 --> 01:14:58,226 Ryan: And you see us on the island, 1148 01:14:58,394 --> 01:15:00,828 in the middle of the sea. 1149 01:15:00,964 --> 01:15:02,563 Trusting that we're going to get to the other side. 1150 01:15:02,665 --> 01:15:06,567 -Amy: And Joel goes and we stay. -Ryan: Yeah. 1151 01:15:06,669 --> 01:15:07,468 Amy: On the island in the middle of the sea. 1152 01:15:07,604 --> 01:15:09,570 Ryan: In the middle of the sea. 1153 01:15:09,639 --> 01:15:10,638 -Amy: But he makes it to the other side. 1154 01:15:10,707 --> 01:15:14,475 -Ryan: He makes it to the other side. 1155 01:15:14,577 --> 01:15:16,477 Amy: Do you feel like you have to -- 1156 01:15:16,546 --> 01:15:18,079 You don't feel like you have to revisit that at all 1157 01:15:18,214 --> 01:15:19,247 once you get to the other side, 1158 01:15:19,382 --> 01:15:20,748 that we're still on the island 1159 01:15:20,850 --> 01:15:22,316 or that, like, it's just okay for you that that's where it is? 1160 01:15:22,452 --> 01:15:23,918 Ryan: I absolutely think, yeah. 1161 01:15:24,053 --> 01:15:27,755 Amy: Okay. 1162 01:15:27,824 --> 01:15:31,592 Ryan: And that's why him like laying there is kind of like -- 1163 01:15:31,694 --> 01:15:33,694 I don't necessarily know that I want us to be there in the park. 1164 01:15:33,796 --> 01:15:35,796 Amy: Yeah 'cause at first you said we'd be there, 1165 01:15:35,899 --> 01:15:38,466 but I think you're right that -- If that's how you see this, 1166 01:15:38,535 --> 01:15:41,402 is that at this point he's moved on and we can't -- 1167 01:15:41,538 --> 01:15:42,336 Ryan: Yeah. 1168 01:15:42,438 --> 01:15:47,208 Amy: Then, like, we're not there. 1169 01:15:47,377 --> 01:15:49,277 Ryan: [ Whispers ] Yeah. 1170 01:15:49,345 --> 01:15:53,481 Amy: Okay, I feel really good about the end of the game. 1171 01:15:53,550 --> 01:15:54,482 And what we've written and what we're doing. 1172 01:15:54,551 --> 01:15:56,884 -Ryan: Yeah? Okay. -Amy: I think so. 1173 01:15:56,953 --> 01:15:59,554 Ryan: I feel like it brings it around full circle. 1174 01:15:59,622 --> 01:16:00,388 Amy: I think it's gonna be really good. 1175 01:16:00,490 --> 01:16:05,693 Ryan: I think it'll be pretty. 1176 01:16:05,795 --> 01:16:11,132 Most of the picking up the pieces is done in the aftermath. 1177 01:16:11,301 --> 01:16:14,035 Not in the middle of it. 1178 01:16:14,170 --> 01:16:15,937 When the cameras turn of and wh-- 1179 01:16:16,105 --> 01:16:17,238 [ Sighs ] 1180 01:16:17,340 --> 01:16:19,874 ...and then when the game is done, you know? 1181 01:16:19,976 --> 01:16:30,418 And then, what, you're just left in silence with that hole. 1182 01:16:30,486 --> 01:16:32,186 I think that's the mystery of all of this, 1183 01:16:32,255 --> 01:16:37,058 is that, life isn't built on how well things have gone. 1184 01:16:37,193 --> 01:16:39,126 It's the -- 1185 01:16:39,295 --> 01:16:43,030 It's the whole crazy mess of it. 1186 01:16:52,075 --> 01:16:54,709 I was telling Caleb that Joel's doing really well. 1187 01:16:54,811 --> 01:16:56,744 Amy: He's doing really well? 1188 01:16:56,813 --> 01:16:59,647 -Ryan: Yeah. -Amy: Looks real happy! 1189 01:16:59,716 --> 01:17:01,749 Ryan: He's been very peaceful all afternoon. 1190 01:17:05,788 --> 01:17:10,891 The most fulfilling and meaningful and passionate 1191 01:17:10,994 --> 01:17:12,326 and compassionate moments of your life 1192 01:17:12,395 --> 01:17:17,531 can be in the middle of the deepest loss you can experience. 1193 01:17:20,470 --> 01:17:22,370 I think that can be beautiful. 1194 01:17:25,208 --> 01:17:27,942 I hope it's beautiful. 1195 01:17:59,008 --> 01:18:02,476 Joel: [ Giggles ] More! 1196 01:18:02,578 --> 01:18:06,147 ♪♪