1
00:00:33,066 --> 00:00:35,903
Gene's ideas about the future
and about man,

2
00:00:36,003 --> 00:00:37,137
are wacky doodle.

3
00:00:37,237 --> 00:00:38,506
Red alert, shields up!

4
00:00:41,509 --> 00:00:43,043
David Gerrold:
 He was a flawed man.

5
00:00:43,143 --> 00:00:46,580
He had great virtues,
he had great flaws.

6
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,517
I thought Gene was going
to come across the table at me.

7
00:00:49,617 --> 00:00:55,122
I saw first hand Gene's
battling with the studio.

8
00:00:55,222 --> 00:00:58,492
Rick Berman:
Gene was considered somewhat
of a pain in the neck,

9
00:00:58,592 --> 00:01:01,194
he was kind of a blustery guy.

10
00:01:01,295 --> 00:01:04,231
D.C. Fontana:
 Gene wasn't the easiest
 person to get along with

11
00:01:04,332 --> 00:01:08,235
but he stuck up for his beliefs
and his concepts.

12
00:01:08,336 --> 00:01:11,539
It was just a lot of
in fighting-- it was all chaos.

13
00:01:11,639 --> 00:01:13,474
Ira Steven Behr: There was
really scary stuff going on.

14
00:01:13,574 --> 00:01:16,844
There's a lawyer going around
looking in people's desks

15
00:01:16,944 --> 00:01:18,712
when they're not there.

16
00:01:18,812 --> 00:01:20,314
Brannon Braga:
 I spent the first
 couple of years

17
00:01:20,414 --> 00:01:22,416
just worried I was
going to be fired.

18
00:01:22,516 --> 00:01:24,952
Sir Patrick Stewart:
My agent was the first person
to talk to us.

19
00:01:25,052 --> 00:01:28,556
There wasn't a hope in hell that
this show would even make it
through the first season.

20
00:01:34,928 --> 00:01:38,599
William Shatner:
 This film is about
 the turbulent years

21
00:01:38,699 --> 00:01:41,735
that marked the beginning
 of Star Trek: The Next
 Generation.

22
00:01:41,835 --> 00:01:44,605
How it got off the ground

23
00:01:44,705 --> 00:01:47,575
and survived the chaos
of the first three years.

24
00:01:47,675 --> 00:01:50,243
I became fascinated
with the struggle,

25
00:01:50,344 --> 00:01:53,013
not only the creative struggle,

26
00:01:53,113 --> 00:01:56,717
but the struggle for power.

27
00:01:59,620 --> 00:02:04,324
Those doors are opening up
on Stage 6 where the bridge

28
00:02:04,425 --> 00:02:09,863
for The Next Generation
was first constructed.

29
00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:14,001
Power is an ephemeral;
it's what is perceived.

30
00:02:14,101 --> 00:02:16,570
In order for power to exist
it has to be acknowledged

31
00:02:16,670 --> 00:02:19,640
by the people who
are involved in the work.

32
00:02:19,740 --> 00:02:23,377
What I began to see
was Gene Roddenberry the creator

33
00:02:23,477 --> 00:02:26,480
of Star Trek aging and
in diminishing health

34
00:02:26,580 --> 00:02:31,719
trying desperately to hold on
to his creative vision,

35
00:02:31,819 --> 00:02:36,123
his legacy, and ultimately
his power.

36
00:02:39,827 --> 00:02:41,962
Hurley:
Roddenberry had
an incredible loyalty,

37
00:02:42,062 --> 00:02:44,164
he was very loyal
to his friends.

38
00:02:44,264 --> 00:02:47,100
No, Gene screwed over
all his friends as well
as his enemies.

39
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,602
You know, he had
a lot of demons.

40
00:02:48,702 --> 00:02:50,404
He was very perceptive,
had a high IQ.

41
00:02:50,504 --> 00:02:52,873
Gene was a historical
revisionist.

42
00:02:52,973 --> 00:02:56,309
Creative and contributive
and collaborative.

43
00:02:56,410 --> 00:02:58,211
- Very intimidating guy.
- His good nature.

44
00:02:58,311 --> 00:02:59,713
He could be a bully.

45
00:02:59,813 --> 00:03:01,615
But he was a nice man
and was a generous man.

46
00:03:01,715 --> 00:03:04,652
Gene had a way of making you
feel really good about yourself.

47
00:03:04,752 --> 00:03:06,153
He could inspire people
to do better than

48
00:03:06,253 --> 00:03:08,355
they believed
they were capable of.

49
00:03:08,456 --> 00:03:11,659
I just found him
a decent man.

50
00:03:11,759 --> 00:03:13,827
And had a lot
of worldly experience.

51
00:03:13,927 --> 00:03:17,531
A bomber pilot in the Pacific,
 decorated Pan Am pilot
 world wide.

52
00:03:17,631 --> 00:03:19,867
I had great arguments
about philosophy and
all sorts of things.

53
00:03:19,967 --> 00:03:22,770
He was a really
remarkable man, I thought.

54
00:03:22,870 --> 00:03:24,838
Gene was fun...

55
00:03:24,938 --> 00:03:26,507
but then later as things were
not going as well

56
00:03:26,607 --> 00:03:28,008
I think he got
sour.

57
00:03:28,108 --> 00:03:31,912
There's this twenty year
in the desert for Gene.

58
00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:33,346
He's the forgotten man.

59
00:03:33,447 --> 00:03:35,849
Fontana:
 The things that didn't happen

60
00:03:35,949 --> 00:03:40,187
were disappointing
 and very saddening.

61
00:03:40,287 --> 00:03:42,422
His wife Majel would go
to the conventions

62
00:03:42,523 --> 00:03:45,358
and they would sell
 memorabilia and make
 some money that way and

63
00:03:45,459 --> 00:03:48,261
that money helped
 sustain him.

64
00:03:48,361 --> 00:03:49,930
When you're out of work
as a writer in Hollywood

65
00:03:50,030 --> 00:03:53,467
and you can't find it,
it's a difficult life.

66
00:03:53,567 --> 00:03:56,870
I guarantee you he had
 a difficult life

67
00:03:56,970 --> 00:04:00,574
between Star Trek
 and the first movie.

68
00:04:00,674 --> 00:04:03,777
We get back together
for Next Gen and for him

69
00:04:03,877 --> 00:04:06,480
it's like he's been called
back out of the desert

70
00:04:06,580 --> 00:04:08,616
and given a position
of power again.

71
00:04:10,718 --> 00:04:14,555
At the time Gene
Roddenberry was considered

72
00:04:14,655 --> 00:04:17,558
somewhat of a pain in the neck,
he was kind of a blustery guy

73
00:04:17,658 --> 00:04:20,861
who was not very agreeable.

74
00:04:20,961 --> 00:04:24,097
Everybody else forgot him after
 Star Trek the motion picture,

75
00:04:24,197 --> 00:04:26,166
this epic disaster.

76
00:04:26,266 --> 00:04:29,236
Every aspect of it
got out of hand,

77
00:04:29,336 --> 00:04:31,171
this was a runaway train.

78
00:04:31,271 --> 00:04:33,373
He wasn't trusted
with anything.

79
00:04:33,473 --> 00:04:36,544
He had been relegated
to being the executive
consultant on the movies.

80
00:04:36,644 --> 00:04:38,546
They paid him very well.

81
00:04:38,646 --> 00:04:41,915
I think that
may have been enough.

82
00:04:42,015 --> 00:04:45,118
He had a big corner office
 in the Hart building.

83
00:04:45,218 --> 00:04:49,356
He pretty much spent his days
 in correspondence

84
00:04:49,456 --> 00:04:51,324
with people from
 all over the world

85
00:04:51,424 --> 00:04:53,093
who had become
 Star Trek fans.

86
00:04:53,193 --> 00:04:58,198
So they gave him this emeritus
status and he was a "has been."

87
00:05:00,668 --> 00:05:04,171
Arnold:
 The Summer of 1986,
 a special summer,

88
00:05:04,271 --> 00:05:06,907
Star Trek 4 about to come out,
twentieth anniversary
about to happen,

89
00:05:07,007 --> 00:05:09,209
and everything seemed
to be building towards
this peak.

90
00:05:09,309 --> 00:05:14,281
The studio had decided
 to start developing
 a new series.

91
00:05:14,381 --> 00:05:16,383
- Without Gene.
- Without Gene.

92
00:05:16,483 --> 00:05:20,320
The president
of the television group
was a guy named Mel Harris.

93
00:05:20,420 --> 00:05:22,389
He called me one day
 and he said,

94
00:05:22,489 --> 00:05:24,958
"We're gonna do
a new Star Trek."

95
00:05:25,058 --> 00:05:28,862
The studio came to him
and said we want to start
a new series.

96
00:05:28,962 --> 00:05:32,199
Gene wasn't all that excited
about doing another

97
00:05:32,299 --> 00:05:33,967
Star Trek for Paramount.

98
00:05:34,067 --> 00:05:38,138
And so created this series
and Gene went, "Whoa, wait, no."

99
00:05:38,238 --> 00:05:40,507
He saw the studio
as an adversary.

100
00:05:40,608 --> 00:05:42,910
Gene and the studio,
it was a war. It really was.

101
00:05:43,010 --> 00:05:45,646
Gene says,
"No you're not doing
Star Trek without me,

102
00:05:45,746 --> 00:05:47,380
it's my property."
Gene had the power.

103
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,717
Arnold:
 They weren't
 going to proceed,

104
00:05:49,817 --> 00:05:51,819
And he said, "Well,
damn it I can do it."

105
00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:55,322
Finally, after years
of trying to convince him

106
00:05:55,422 --> 00:05:58,191
to do a new Star Trek series,
he agreed.

107
00:05:58,291 --> 00:05:59,927
He didn't mean
to go in there

108
00:06:00,027 --> 00:06:02,095
and come out with
a new series in development.

109
00:06:02,195 --> 00:06:05,899
He was looking forward
to retirement in just
a couple of months.

110
00:06:05,999 --> 00:06:07,835
Gene agreed and

111
00:06:07,935 --> 00:06:10,704
we had a very, very
contentious negotiation

112
00:06:10,804 --> 00:06:14,274
with Gene's lawyer
from Bullhead City

113
00:06:14,374 --> 00:06:16,076
by the name of
Leonard Maizlish.

114
00:06:19,947 --> 00:06:20,848
Oh, Leonard.

115
00:06:20,948 --> 00:06:22,983
Gene's wacky attorney.

116
00:06:23,083 --> 00:06:26,419
Who, in himself, could be
a movie of the week.

117
00:06:26,519 --> 00:06:27,655
( chuckles )

118
00:06:29,757 --> 00:06:32,092
He was not the nicest person
in the world.

119
00:06:34,261 --> 00:06:36,664
A lot of people
hated Leonard.

120
00:06:38,398 --> 00:06:40,968
I can recall one day when
Leonard was almost

121
00:06:41,068 --> 00:06:45,438
clutching his chest and I'm
saying, "I hope you die."

122
00:06:45,538 --> 00:06:48,575
I personally never
had problems with Leonard.

123
00:06:48,676 --> 00:06:50,043
Gene wanted to be
the good guy

124
00:06:50,143 --> 00:06:52,713
so the lawyer
got to be the bad guy.

125
00:06:55,215 --> 00:07:01,054
Leonard was carrying the wrath
of Gene for all these years

126
00:07:01,154 --> 00:07:06,159
because Gene felt
he had gotten screwed
on the original series.

127
00:07:06,259 --> 00:07:10,097
Paramount owns the rights.
There was never any dispute
about that,

128
00:07:10,197 --> 00:07:14,501
but Gene Roddenberry
is the creator of Star Trek.

129
00:07:14,601 --> 00:07:17,871
Gene had as much celebrity
as the show itself.

130
00:07:19,206 --> 00:07:23,043
I actually thought he was
imperative to the DNA

131
00:07:23,143 --> 00:07:26,313
of a successful reboot
of Star Trek.

132
00:07:26,413 --> 00:07:28,148
So, what happens?

133
00:07:28,248 --> 00:07:31,118
I needed Gene Roddenberry
and I needed to make a deal

134
00:07:31,218 --> 00:07:35,723
and Leonard Maizlish
knew exactly where he had me.

135
00:07:35,823 --> 00:07:38,091
Pike:
 Look, his job was to represent
 Gene Roddenberry,

136
00:07:38,191 --> 00:07:42,763
and as tough as he was,
 he did a hell of a job
 at doing that.

137
00:07:42,863 --> 00:07:47,167
We made the deal giving Gene
 a compensation package

138
00:07:47,267 --> 00:07:50,704
that was sufficient
to Gene and to Leonard.

139
00:07:50,804 --> 00:07:55,575
Paramount would still own
 the property Star Trek,

140
00:07:55,675 --> 00:07:58,311
but Gene would take
 his fair share out.

141
00:07:58,411 --> 00:08:00,547
And by the way...

142
00:08:00,647 --> 00:08:03,050
it was a handsome share.

143
00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,156
So, Gene said yes
to doing a series,

144
00:08:09,256 --> 00:08:12,826
and then suddenly he's startled
by his own statement.

145
00:08:12,926 --> 00:08:16,529
Yeah, I don't think
he was prepared for
what that meant.

146
00:08:16,629 --> 00:08:18,866
And he wasn't a fit man.

147
00:08:18,966 --> 00:08:22,435
Gerrold:
 Every weekend Majel
 would pour him onto the train

148
00:08:22,535 --> 00:08:26,139
and send him to La Costa
the facility where
they'd dry him out.

149
00:08:26,239 --> 00:08:29,342
Because of the drinking, because
of the recreational drug use,

150
00:08:29,442 --> 00:08:30,944
he needed to clean himself up.

151
00:08:31,044 --> 00:08:32,813
Which he did, over the next
couple of months.

152
00:08:32,913 --> 00:08:34,948
As everything
was being worked out,

153
00:08:35,048 --> 00:08:37,751
the I's were being dotted,
the T's were being crossed.

154
00:08:37,851 --> 00:08:40,587
Now it was decided,

155
00:08:40,687 --> 00:08:43,924
all right, Gene, you will
assemble your team.

156
00:08:44,024 --> 00:08:46,059
Does anybody have a concept
at this point?

157
00:08:46,159 --> 00:08:47,761
No, they had no cast,
they had nothing.

158
00:08:47,861 --> 00:08:51,564
Do you go back and conceptualize
what this show is?

159
00:08:51,664 --> 00:08:53,700
Gene brought in almost
immediately, Eddie Milkis,

160
00:08:53,801 --> 00:08:56,169
Bob Justman,
 me, Dorothy Fontana.

161
00:08:56,269 --> 00:09:00,207
Arnold:
 People that he had trusted
 and relied on heavily

162
00:09:00,307 --> 00:09:01,975
during the original
series production.

163
00:09:02,075 --> 00:09:05,178
We began to meet
at lunch time

164
00:09:05,278 --> 00:09:07,280
at the Paramount commissary,
in the private room there.

165
00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:09,582
Gerrold:
 Everybody in the commissary
 would watch us walk in

166
00:09:09,682 --> 00:09:12,519
and walk into the executive
 dining room.

167
00:09:12,619 --> 00:09:15,789
"There goes a hundred million
dollar deal on the hoof."

168
00:09:15,889 --> 00:09:19,192
And it was fun,
it was really fun.

169
00:09:19,292 --> 00:09:21,428
Arnold:
 The fans you would have thought
 would've been Gene's

170
00:09:21,528 --> 00:09:23,230
biggest supporters,
absolutely not.

171
00:09:23,330 --> 00:09:26,266
I think that a lot
of the fans were very verbal

172
00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:30,037
about someone taking away
Captain Kirk.

173
00:09:30,137 --> 00:09:32,339
Gerrold:
 They were angry because
 he didn't have Kirk,

174
00:09:32,439 --> 00:09:35,675
Spock, and McCoy in
the new series and how dare
he call it Star Trek.

175
00:09:35,775 --> 00:09:39,246
I had done a show
called Get Smart Again,

176
00:09:39,346 --> 00:09:42,515
which was off of the Get Smart
series, and I think

177
00:09:42,615 --> 00:09:46,219
there's a big problem
if you try to recreate,
it's quicksand.

178
00:09:46,319 --> 00:09:48,488
Crosby:
When I got this script
to come in and audition

179
00:09:48,588 --> 00:09:50,390
for The Next Gen
and I thought,

180
00:09:50,490 --> 00:09:52,425
"Oh my God,
I don't know

181
00:09:52,525 --> 00:09:56,029
if this is something
that anybody should be doing

182
00:09:56,129 --> 00:10:01,869
because it was such an iconic
thing, Star Trek at this point.

183
00:10:01,969 --> 00:10:04,171
"You cannot revive an
iconic series,

184
00:10:04,271 --> 00:10:06,306
you cannot
replace those guys."

185
00:10:06,406 --> 00:10:11,244
This had the markings
of some little seedy...

186
00:10:11,344 --> 00:10:13,280
John De Lancie:
It was both really exciting
and also,

187
00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:15,782
there was this thing
in my mind of going,

188
00:10:15,883 --> 00:10:20,921
"Ooohhhh, are we trying
to create or recreate?"

189
00:10:23,290 --> 00:10:25,658
Ronald D. Moore:
 In the 1970's people started
 saying that Gene

190
00:10:25,758 --> 00:10:29,529
was a visionary,
 he had this utopian vision
 of the future.

191
00:10:29,629 --> 00:10:33,033
I think that he started
to believe that

192
00:10:33,133 --> 00:10:35,768
and then Next Generation
became a vehicle

193
00:10:35,869 --> 00:10:39,439
to demonstrate this utopia.

194
00:10:39,539 --> 00:10:42,575
I remember he used to tell me
that L. Ron Hubbard

195
00:10:42,675 --> 00:10:46,213
was a friend of his
and that he went and
started a religion.

196
00:10:46,313 --> 00:10:48,648
Gene always thought
that if he had wanted to,

197
00:10:48,748 --> 00:10:50,617
he probably could have done
the same thing.

198
00:10:50,717 --> 00:10:53,353
Gerrold:
 He would go to conventions
 and he loved being

199
00:10:53,453 --> 00:10:56,256
the great bird of the galaxy.
Who wouldn't?

200
00:10:56,356 --> 00:11:00,193
He gave college lectures
 for years in the 70's

201
00:11:00,293 --> 00:11:03,263
and tens of thousands
 of people would show up
 at these lectures.

202
00:11:03,363 --> 00:11:06,033
He was starting to believe
 his own publicity.

203
00:11:06,133 --> 00:11:10,270
Isaac Asimov sent Gene
 a copy of his book called
 Asimov's Guide to the Bible.

204
00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:16,209
Gene got very
 interested in learning
 more about humanism.

205
00:11:19,879 --> 00:11:22,815
Shatner:
 The research prior
 to The Next Generation

206
00:11:22,916 --> 00:11:29,722
lead him to have a thesis that,
if not perfection,

207
00:11:29,822 --> 00:11:32,825
man was evolving
in a humanist way.

208
00:11:32,926 --> 00:11:35,996
In The Next Generation
he tried to impart

209
00:11:36,096 --> 00:11:37,864
his humanistic philosophy.

210
00:11:37,965 --> 00:11:40,700
Most science fiction
that we experience today

211
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,669
is a relatively dismal view

212
00:11:42,769 --> 00:11:46,339
of what the future's
going to be like.

213
00:11:46,439 --> 00:11:50,077
Gene was obsessed with
the idea that the future
was going to be better.

214
00:11:53,113 --> 00:11:55,448
There was tremendous
 anticipation because

215
00:11:55,548 --> 00:11:59,486
it was the rebirth of this
phenomenally successful series.

216
00:11:59,586 --> 00:12:04,591
Barry Diller had this idea
of starting a fourth network.

217
00:12:04,691 --> 00:12:07,860
Pike:
 And he wanted to take
 Star Trek and use that

218
00:12:07,961 --> 00:12:11,531
as the corner stone
of a new network.

219
00:12:11,631 --> 00:12:14,701
We had the commitment
 to do the new series

220
00:12:14,801 --> 00:12:19,172
and we assumed it would be
a twenty-six episode commitment.

221
00:12:19,272 --> 00:12:23,610
Well, at the eleventh hour
they cut that to thirteen.

222
00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:27,680
I can't make the numbers
work at thirteen,
I need twenty-six.

223
00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:29,516
I'm not sure what to do here,

224
00:12:29,616 --> 00:12:32,752
but let me go explore
the other three networks.

225
00:12:32,852 --> 00:12:34,621
It was a science fiction
show and at that point

226
00:12:34,721 --> 00:12:37,424
in the mid eighties there was no
science fiction on television.

227
00:12:37,524 --> 00:12:41,794
First, I went to NBC,
to Brandon Tartikoff,
it was dismissed out of hand.

228
00:12:41,894 --> 00:12:45,298
I then went to ABC
and Brandon Stoddard,

229
00:12:45,398 --> 00:12:48,368
and he thought it was
simply a bad idea.

230
00:12:48,468 --> 00:12:51,938
The third meeting was with Kim
 Lemasters, President of CBS
 Entertainment,

231
00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:54,607
and he said let's do it
 as a mini series.

232
00:12:54,707 --> 00:12:56,976
Well, that clearly
 doesn't work.

233
00:12:57,077 --> 00:13:00,080
It is then when we went back
at Paramount.

234
00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:02,315
Lucy Silany who was
President of distribution

235
00:13:02,415 --> 00:13:06,686
said, "Wait a minute, I can
give you twenty-six episodes.

236
00:13:06,786 --> 00:13:09,622
Why don't you produce
the program

237
00:13:09,722 --> 00:13:11,891
and we will take it out
in first-run syndication."

238
00:13:11,991 --> 00:13:16,863
Well, nobody had ever done
a program like that in
first-run syndication.

239
00:13:16,963 --> 00:13:19,132
Tell me what first-run
syndication is.

240
00:13:19,232 --> 00:13:23,503
First-run syndication is
programming that is basically

241
00:13:23,603 --> 00:13:26,439
sold market by market,
station by station,

242
00:13:26,539 --> 00:13:30,443
on independent stations,
wherever they wanted to place it
or on network stations

243
00:13:30,543 --> 00:13:34,847
outside of the so-called
prime time which is
eight to eleven.

244
00:13:34,947 --> 00:13:39,886
So, all of a sudden
 we went from a corner stone
 for the Fox Network,

245
00:13:39,986 --> 00:13:43,890
to this new hybrid for
first-run syndication

246
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:48,628
and by the way, Gene Roddenberry
believed we were going to do
a network show.

247
00:13:52,265 --> 00:13:55,468
The studio, I think it's
in their manual,

248
00:13:55,568 --> 00:13:59,506
tells you that the director,
the producer and the studio

249
00:13:59,606 --> 00:14:02,709
are always going to be
loggerheads about something.

250
00:14:02,809 --> 00:14:04,544
Because they have
different needs?

251
00:14:04,644 --> 00:14:06,846
Because they feel that
that's how they can

252
00:14:06,946 --> 00:14:09,416
control the cast,
the budget.

253
00:14:09,516 --> 00:14:12,752
This was a low-budget
television show

254
00:14:12,852 --> 00:14:14,087
and it had enormous
expectations.

255
00:14:14,187 --> 00:14:15,655
How did you know that?

256
00:14:15,755 --> 00:14:17,357
Star Trek has always been
a low budget production.

257
00:14:17,457 --> 00:14:19,759
And Star Trek always has
enormous expectations.

258
00:14:19,859 --> 00:14:21,128
- Yes.
- I see.

259
00:14:23,830 --> 00:14:27,400
Berman:
The first meeting that I went to
in Roddenberry's office,

260
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:29,736
the big discussion was
whether it would be a one-hour

261
00:14:29,836 --> 00:14:32,004
or a two-hour pilot.

262
00:14:32,105 --> 00:14:33,673
Roddenberry wanted it to be
a one-hour pilot,

263
00:14:33,773 --> 00:14:35,842
the studio wanted it to be
a two-hour pilot,

264
00:14:35,942 --> 00:14:38,911
and it was a big,
blustery argument.

265
00:14:39,011 --> 00:14:42,482
Pike:
 The premier episode,
 we have to make a splash with,

266
00:14:42,582 --> 00:14:45,185
and that must be
a two-hour episode.

267
00:14:45,285 --> 00:14:47,187
Roddenberry didn't want
to do a two-hour.

268
00:14:47,287 --> 00:14:49,189
Pike:
I thought Gene was going
to come across the table at me,

269
00:14:49,289 --> 00:14:52,625
"We're not doing a two-hour
and I'm not writing a two-hour."

270
00:14:52,725 --> 00:14:56,663
And I said, "Gene, quite frankly
if you do not do this,

271
00:14:56,763 --> 00:15:01,768
I will bar you from the lot.
We are going forward with
a two-hour.

272
00:15:01,868 --> 00:15:06,206
I don't know who's going
to write it, and now everybody
is looking around the room

273
00:15:06,306 --> 00:15:10,910
and nobody is saying
nothing.

274
00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:13,580
I'm looking to my left
 where my bosses are,

275
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,784
I'm looking to my right,
 where the syndication
 people are.

276
00:15:17,884 --> 00:15:19,586
There's poker being played
right here.

277
00:15:19,686 --> 00:15:22,555
And nobody is backing me
because when I said,

278
00:15:22,655 --> 00:15:25,925
"I will lock you out of this
lot, I'm not kidding you."

279
00:15:26,025 --> 00:15:27,560
What were you thinking?

280
00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:30,797
I'm thinking what if
he gets up and walks out,

281
00:15:30,897 --> 00:15:32,965
I'm screwed.

282
00:15:33,065 --> 00:15:35,568
If this program were not blessed
by Roddenberry,

283
00:15:35,668 --> 00:15:38,571
we would've placed the franchise
in serious jeopardy.

284
00:15:38,671 --> 00:15:41,708
These millions of dollars
are hanging on his,

285
00:15:41,808 --> 00:15:43,543
yes, to a two-hour.

286
00:15:43,643 --> 00:15:45,778
Pike:
 And it's more like tens
 of millions of dollars,

287
00:15:45,878 --> 00:15:47,714
it's a lot of money.

288
00:15:47,814 --> 00:15:49,482
All right,
so you were bluffing.

289
00:15:49,582 --> 00:15:50,483
I was bluffing.

290
00:15:50,583 --> 00:15:51,851
Holy cats.

291
00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:54,754
And he knew
I was dead serious.

292
00:15:54,854 --> 00:15:58,191
- But you were bluffing.
- I was bluffing, he blinked.

293
00:15:58,291 --> 00:16:01,861
- You play poker?
- Occasionally.

294
00:16:04,797 --> 00:16:07,267
I was asked to come in,
by Gene, and he said,

295
00:16:07,367 --> 00:16:08,768
"Would you write the pilot?"

296
00:16:08,868 --> 00:16:10,537
And I brought
in Encounter at Farpoint.

297
00:16:10,637 --> 00:16:14,241
So I was writing introduction
of the new Enterprise,

298
00:16:14,341 --> 00:16:17,277
the new crew,
the new captain, obviously.

299
00:16:17,377 --> 00:16:19,946
David Gerrold:
Then he says, "I have to add
thirty minutes to

300
00:16:20,046 --> 00:16:23,049
the script because the studio
wants my name on the pilot."

301
00:16:23,149 --> 00:16:24,651
which was a lie.

302
00:16:24,751 --> 00:16:26,786
Gene wanted Dorothy
to write the two-hour script.

303
00:16:26,886 --> 00:16:29,322
She said she couldn't do it,

304
00:16:29,422 --> 00:16:32,692
she said I can't in less
than two weeks.

305
00:16:32,792 --> 00:16:36,062
Gene on the other hand,
 could write very well
 under pressure

306
00:16:36,162 --> 00:16:40,800
and he came back the next week
 with Encounter at Farpoint,
 the two-hour story,

307
00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:42,569
which introduced
the Q character

308
00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:44,937
who was not in the original
story that Dorothy wrote.

309
00:16:45,037 --> 00:16:47,240
Fontana:
 Q was so totally different.
 It was like he was thrust

310
00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:50,142
into that story and
 I like John De Lancie,

311
00:16:50,243 --> 00:16:51,511
I thought he did
a wonderful job.

312
00:16:51,611 --> 00:16:52,945
And Q came back
in other stories.

313
00:16:53,045 --> 00:16:54,381
Right, it has nothing
to do with John.

314
00:16:54,481 --> 00:16:56,115
Nothing to do with that but,
it was like

315
00:16:56,215 --> 00:16:57,950
this is not what the story
was supposed to be about.

316
00:16:58,050 --> 00:17:00,587
It was supposed to be about
the mystery of Farpoint

317
00:17:00,687 --> 00:17:03,590
and putting this
new crew together.

318
00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:05,258
- He wrote the Q character.
- Yes.

319
00:17:05,358 --> 00:17:06,559
And fleshed it out
another half hour.

320
00:17:06,659 --> 00:17:08,160
Right.

321
00:17:08,261 --> 00:17:10,363
And then said it was a script
by Gene Roddenberry.

322
00:17:10,463 --> 00:17:12,164
Well, that went to
arbitration, of course,

323
00:17:12,265 --> 00:17:13,433
it was a split credit.

324
00:17:16,403 --> 00:17:19,071
Gerrold:
 What he had done was he had
 jumped her credit.

325
00:17:19,171 --> 00:17:22,675
He was now getting
 half the residuals
 for that episode,

326
00:17:22,775 --> 00:17:24,477
and that's in perpetuity.

327
00:17:24,577 --> 00:17:28,080
Gene did this brilliant job
of turning this one-hour story

328
00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:29,949
into a two-hour story
he wrote half of it,

329
00:17:30,049 --> 00:17:31,484
she wrote half of it.

330
00:17:31,584 --> 00:17:33,753
He came back with a script
and, to this day,

331
00:17:33,853 --> 00:17:37,290
I have no idea what
that episode was about.

332
00:17:37,390 --> 00:17:39,826
But there was no way
in the world

333
00:17:39,926 --> 00:17:45,398
I was going to give any notes
whatsoever to Mr. Roddenberry.

334
00:17:48,167 --> 00:17:52,339
Berman:
 One story that is one of my
 favorites about Gene

335
00:17:52,439 --> 00:17:56,943
had to do with the casting
of Captain Picard.

336
00:17:58,945 --> 00:18:02,749
We looked at a whole bunch
of people and Bob Justman

337
00:18:02,849 --> 00:18:06,719
had seen Patrick Stewart
give a class or a lecture.

338
00:18:06,819 --> 00:18:11,424
Bob Justman went by a hallway
where he was teaching at UCLA

339
00:18:11,524 --> 00:18:14,827
and heard this voice
reverberating down the hallway.

340
00:18:14,927 --> 00:18:16,763
It was Patrick Stewart.

341
00:18:16,863 --> 00:18:19,866
Arnold:
 Patrick Stewart who was not
 Gene's first choice.

342
00:18:19,966 --> 00:18:23,370
In fact, he kind of fought
even reading him first,

343
00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:25,672
but Bob Justman insisted,
so Gene did.

344
00:18:25,772 --> 00:18:27,907
Bob Justman said,
"You got to meet this guy,

345
00:18:28,007 --> 00:18:30,142
this is the captain."

346
00:18:30,242 --> 00:18:31,878
And Gene met me and
I understood some time,

347
00:18:31,978 --> 00:18:37,216
some time later, that Gene
said, "Absolutely not.

348
00:18:37,316 --> 00:18:38,885
This guy couldn't be
more wrong."

349
00:18:38,985 --> 00:18:41,988
Gene said I'm not going to have
a bald English man

350
00:18:42,088 --> 00:18:44,323
playing the new Captain Kirk.

351
00:18:44,424 --> 00:18:46,759
And I don't think
he quite understands

352
00:18:46,859 --> 00:18:50,162
the nature of my background
and where I'd come from
and what I'd done,

353
00:18:50,262 --> 00:18:54,467
except that I was this guy
who had a lot of classical
theatre experience.

354
00:18:54,567 --> 00:18:57,003
But Gene respected that.

355
00:18:57,103 --> 00:19:00,673
It's final casting
and it's Gene and I,

356
00:19:00,773 --> 00:19:03,075
Rick Berman was sitting there.
I had my vision,

357
00:19:03,175 --> 00:19:06,312
my vision was,
I want Bill Shatner.

358
00:19:06,413 --> 00:19:09,081
I want a good looking guy
who's young and virile.

359
00:19:09,181 --> 00:19:14,020
We were down to three actors:
Mitch Ryan, was number two,

360
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,523
Roy Thinnes was number three,

361
00:19:16,623 --> 00:19:20,527
and the one that
I thought was interesting
was Yaphet Kotto.

362
00:19:20,627 --> 00:19:23,830
They were all but despairing
of finding a captain.

363
00:19:23,930 --> 00:19:27,934
This is silly.
Patrick is by far the best
person that we've talked about

364
00:19:28,034 --> 00:19:34,607
and Roddenberry said I'll have
him read to the studio and this
was John Pike.

365
00:19:34,707 --> 00:19:37,710
He said I'll have him read
but he's got to wear a wig.

366
00:19:37,810 --> 00:19:41,781
Patrick had a toupee
 that was in England.

367
00:19:41,881 --> 00:19:45,852
It was FedExed across
 to Los Angeles, and it was
 sent to me in my office.

368
00:19:45,952 --> 00:19:49,922
He went to read along
with one other actor

369
00:19:50,022 --> 00:19:52,459
because you never went
with just one actor.

370
00:19:55,394 --> 00:19:57,196
Patrick did a really good
reading but he had a

371
00:19:57,296 --> 00:20:00,366
British accent and he had a
really, really bad toupee on,

372
00:20:00,467 --> 00:20:02,869
and Gene says you know,
that number two guy,

373
00:20:02,969 --> 00:20:05,505
that Patrick Stewart guy,
let's bring him back.

374
00:20:05,605 --> 00:20:07,073
And they grabbed Patrick
as he was on his way out

375
00:20:07,173 --> 00:20:09,408
and he had already taken
his rug off.

376
00:20:09,509 --> 00:20:11,844
Bring him in and read him
bald-headed.

377
00:20:11,944 --> 00:20:14,781
Well, Patrick Stewart,
one of the baldest heads
in the world,

378
00:20:14,881 --> 00:20:16,749
I mean, there's not a hair
anywhere.

379
00:20:16,849 --> 00:20:20,553
And he comes in and
he reads it and he nailed it.

380
00:20:20,653 --> 00:20:22,589
And Gene said,
"We got him."

381
00:20:22,689 --> 00:20:27,894
And I said,
"Gene, he doesn't have any hair,

382
00:20:27,994 --> 00:20:31,063
we can't make the Captain
a bald guy."

383
00:20:31,163 --> 00:20:35,101
And he looks at me and goes,
"Hair doesn't mean anything in
the twenty-fifth century."

384
00:20:35,201 --> 00:20:37,136
( laughs )

385
00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:41,007
And it was remarks like that
that there was no way
you could counter.

386
00:20:41,107 --> 00:20:44,577
And the next thing you know
Patrick Stewart got the job.

387
00:20:46,045 --> 00:20:48,948
Stewart:
 About two weeks before
 we started filming,

388
00:20:49,048 --> 00:20:53,119
I say, you know,
"Come on, Gene, give me stuff.

389
00:20:53,219 --> 00:20:55,655
I want background..."
and all of this.

390
00:20:55,755 --> 00:20:58,991
And he said, "No, there's just
one thing I have for you."

391
00:20:59,091 --> 00:21:04,363
And he fished down and brought
up this pile of these Horatio
Hornblower books,

392
00:21:04,463 --> 00:21:09,502
and said, "There he is,
that's your man and the rest
he left up to me.

393
00:21:09,602 --> 00:21:12,171
It was brilliant
he didn't tie me down

394
00:21:12,271 --> 00:21:15,975
to anything at all,
except he said that,

395
00:21:16,075 --> 00:21:17,844
"The nature of the man
is in this character."

396
00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:24,851
Gerrold:
 We were having great fun
 until December of '86.

397
00:21:24,951 --> 00:21:28,187
And, about February,
Leonard Maizlish moved
in full time,

398
00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:29,722
and things started
to go to hell.

399
00:21:29,822 --> 00:21:31,758
He came on the lot
and got his own office.

400
00:21:31,858 --> 00:21:33,526
When we went into production
 the first season.

401
00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:36,929
Even though he was
the executive producer's lawyer,

402
00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:39,065
he would hand me scripts
saying these were notes
from Gene,

403
00:21:39,165 --> 00:21:41,200
but I knew Gene's handwriting
and they were not notes
from Gene.

404
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,235
The writers got ahold
of this knowledge

405
00:21:43,335 --> 00:21:46,573
that Leonard Maizlish,
who was not a Writers
Guild member,

406
00:21:46,673 --> 00:21:48,374
was working on scripts.

407
00:21:48,474 --> 00:21:50,209
Here's a guy who'd never
written a word in his life

408
00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:53,012
and he was telling writers
how to write Star Trek scripts.

409
00:21:53,112 --> 00:21:56,348
And this is very much
against the Writers Guild.

410
00:21:56,448 --> 00:21:58,250
My agent took this stuff
to the Guild,

411
00:21:58,350 --> 00:21:59,986
and the Guild filed
a grievance

412
00:22:00,086 --> 00:22:01,754
and Leonard Maizlish
got banned from the lot.

413
00:22:01,854 --> 00:22:03,590
But then he kind
of snuck back in again.

414
00:22:03,690 --> 00:22:05,457
We'd gone to lunch,
we'd come back,

415
00:22:05,558 --> 00:22:08,861
Leonard Maizlish had snuck
into people's computers.

416
00:22:08,961 --> 00:22:10,997
I see that Maizlish
hovering around my room,

417
00:22:11,097 --> 00:22:14,300
opening the door,
peeking through like to see
if I was in there.

418
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,902
And I just said,
"Is there something I can
help you with, Leonard?"

419
00:22:16,002 --> 00:22:17,770
And he leaped
about a foot and a half.

420
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:19,872
I think he thought
he was speaking with
Gene's voice

421
00:22:19,972 --> 00:22:22,575
but I don't think Gene
ever heard the way
he spoke to people.

422
00:22:22,675 --> 00:22:24,143
Nobody liked him.

423
00:22:24,243 --> 00:22:26,212
Gene had these wonderful
relationships with people

424
00:22:26,312 --> 00:22:29,248
who had worked on
the original series
like Dorothy Fontana,

425
00:22:29,348 --> 00:22:31,618
and Leonard was horrible
to Dorothy.

426
00:22:31,718 --> 00:22:33,552
In particular,
I didn't like him.

427
00:22:33,653 --> 00:22:36,155
Leonard Mezlish was running
around hiring people:

428
00:22:36,255 --> 00:22:40,059
Maurice Hurley, Bob lewin,
 neither one of which knew
 anything about Star Trek,

429
00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:41,961
but were immediately promoted
 above me and Dorothy.

430
00:22:42,061 --> 00:22:44,330
Why are people being
promoted above us?

431
00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:48,601
We are the ones
who should be the show
runners, the producers here.

432
00:22:48,701 --> 00:22:52,371
I found him to be
an unsavory character.

433
00:22:52,471 --> 00:22:54,774
He's standing right next
to an open window,

434
00:22:54,874 --> 00:22:57,009
no screen, no anything, and I'm
thinking it would be so easy

435
00:22:57,109 --> 00:23:00,880
to push that bastard
out the window... it would
be so easy.

436
00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:02,514
Say it again.

437
00:23:02,615 --> 00:23:04,516
"David, go do it. Go push that
bastard out the window,

438
00:23:04,617 --> 00:23:06,853
they'll give you a medal."

439
00:23:14,093 --> 00:23:16,062
Pike:
 I remember there was
 this huge screening

440
00:23:16,162 --> 00:23:19,799
in the executive conference room
at Paramount Pictures,

441
00:23:19,899 --> 00:23:23,703
and all the hitters,
and everybody that was
important,

442
00:23:23,803 --> 00:23:27,139
and up we put on the big screen
Encounter at Farpoint.

443
00:23:28,741 --> 00:23:30,276
Everybody looked at it

444
00:23:30,376 --> 00:23:32,912
and they were visually knocked
out at how stunning

445
00:23:33,012 --> 00:23:35,247
the two-hour looked.

446
00:23:35,347 --> 00:23:39,051
As I had looked at it
and wondered what is this about,

447
00:23:39,151 --> 00:23:43,690
what in the world is that thing
that looks like a big jellyfish?

448
00:23:43,790 --> 00:23:49,796
It didn't even really have
an ending and it was a smash.

449
00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:57,003
Did you realize that
The Next Generation

450
00:23:57,103 --> 00:23:59,638
it was possible
to characterize it

451
00:23:59,739 --> 00:24:02,474
as Gene Roddenberry's
dream of heaven?

452
00:24:02,574 --> 00:24:05,745
I would never have thought
that at the time,

453
00:24:05,845 --> 00:24:09,148
but now that we're talking with
his conception of the future

454
00:24:09,248 --> 00:24:13,085
and human beings in the future,
and Q, Q is God.

455
00:24:13,185 --> 00:24:16,155
I mean, just look
at the character, look at
everything about the character.

456
00:24:16,255 --> 00:24:20,793
Gene was a well known atheist,
but he invents Q.

457
00:24:21,627 --> 00:24:24,096
Typical, so typical.

458
00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:28,367
Savage life forms
never follow even
their own rules.

459
00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:31,603
As I sit here
it's pretty startling,

460
00:24:31,704 --> 00:24:34,707
God's a character,
a literalized character,

461
00:24:34,807 --> 00:24:36,008
On Star Trek
The Next Generation.

462
00:24:36,108 --> 00:24:39,311
- By an atheist.
- By an atheist.

463
00:24:39,411 --> 00:24:40,713
Very interesting.

464
00:24:44,383 --> 00:24:46,853
Stewart:
 I had never filmed in Hollywood
 in my life before.

465
00:24:46,953 --> 00:24:48,888
I had no ambitions to
film in Hollywood.

466
00:24:48,988 --> 00:24:50,890
I didn't know how to wear
 these costumes,

467
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:54,660
I didn't know how to speak
 or move or sit,

468
00:24:54,761 --> 00:24:57,096
but I was going to work
and work and work and work.

469
00:24:57,196 --> 00:25:00,166
I would always be prepared,
I would know my lines when
I came on set.

470
00:25:00,266 --> 00:25:03,069
Frakes:
 Sir Patrick took
 the work very seriously,

471
00:25:03,169 --> 00:25:08,107
and if we fooled around,
which we would do, we,

472
00:25:08,207 --> 00:25:11,177
meaning the Americans
of the cast,

473
00:25:11,277 --> 00:25:13,746
and if he was not in the mood
he would let us have it.

474
00:25:13,846 --> 00:25:16,582
Stewart:
I thought there was
a lack of concentration

475
00:25:16,682 --> 00:25:19,185
and focus on the set.

476
00:25:19,285 --> 00:25:21,087
That people were taking
this far too lightly.

477
00:25:21,187 --> 00:25:23,589
We would sing and we would dance
and we would wrestle.

478
00:25:23,689 --> 00:25:27,726
Bill! You're acting
like you didn't do this?

479
00:25:27,827 --> 00:25:30,529
- No!
- Oh, Bill!

480
00:25:30,629 --> 00:25:33,599
Okay, so here's 6
of the 7 of you

481
00:25:33,699 --> 00:25:34,934
are singing and dancing.

482
00:25:35,034 --> 00:25:36,468
No. Maybe not
at the same time.

483
00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:46,578
Sackett:
 People did not realize
 the closeness that we had.

484
00:25:46,678 --> 00:25:51,383
We did have a long lasting,
 personal, very intimate
 relationship

485
00:25:51,483 --> 00:25:54,854
that developed
 over fifteen years.

486
00:25:54,954 --> 00:25:58,457
This was his final chance
and he knew it pretty much.

487
00:25:58,557 --> 00:26:03,329
That this was his last gasp
because it is hard to go back
to do something

488
00:26:03,429 --> 00:26:06,232
you had done
twenty years before.

489
00:26:06,332 --> 00:26:10,202
He was feeling the need
for some support and

490
00:26:10,302 --> 00:26:14,373
he wasn't getting it
from anybody except Maizlish.

491
00:26:14,473 --> 00:26:16,108
Once Leonard Maizlish was there,

492
00:26:16,208 --> 00:26:18,310
I wasn't even invited
to meetings anymore.

493
00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:21,113
So, it was like, okay,
I no longer have input on
the show, why am I here?

494
00:26:21,213 --> 00:26:24,383
We keep hearing Maizlish's name,
what was the magic there?

495
00:26:24,483 --> 00:26:25,551
There was none.

496
00:26:25,651 --> 00:26:27,486
No, but why was he there?

497
00:26:27,586 --> 00:26:29,221
- To help Gene.
- In what way?

498
00:26:29,321 --> 00:26:30,923
To keep him protected.

499
00:26:31,023 --> 00:26:32,892
I wouldn't say that he was
the puppet master of Gene,

500
00:26:32,992 --> 00:26:37,196
but Gene was not just
having his doubts about his

501
00:26:37,296 --> 00:26:41,267
ability to write,
but he was also having
some health issues.

502
00:26:41,367 --> 00:26:44,770
Gene started experiencing
a series of mini strokes.

503
00:26:44,871 --> 00:26:46,638
But it was one meeting
when the other producers and I,

504
00:26:46,738 --> 00:26:50,843
and Gene were in,
Gene got up to turn

505
00:26:50,943 --> 00:26:53,779
and he literally
went in a circle and
slammed into a wall.

506
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,782
Gene's energy level
was so up and down

507
00:26:56,883 --> 00:26:59,852
and Gene's direct activity
with the show

508
00:26:59,952 --> 00:27:03,822
was so mercurial
it was all over the map.

509
00:27:03,923 --> 00:27:06,926
By that time Gene was...

510
00:27:07,026 --> 00:27:09,996
his condition was deteriorating
worse and worse.

511
00:27:10,096 --> 00:27:12,564
And people were being fired
left and right,

512
00:27:12,664 --> 00:27:15,601
and screaming matches
in the hallway,

513
00:27:15,701 --> 00:27:18,137
and all kinds of insanity
was going on.

514
00:27:18,237 --> 00:27:20,506
And so the leadership
that you needed from

515
00:27:20,606 --> 00:27:22,274
your executive producer
was not there.

516
00:27:22,374 --> 00:27:25,477
We were shutting down sometimes
because there was

517
00:27:25,577 --> 00:27:27,947
no captain of the ship
at that point.

518
00:27:28,047 --> 00:27:30,983
- There was a power vacuum.
- Very much so.

519
00:27:33,152 --> 00:27:34,486
Hurley:
I get a call from Paramount

520
00:27:34,586 --> 00:27:36,588
saying come and meet
Roddenberry,

521
00:27:36,688 --> 00:27:40,092
we want to consider you
as a writer for Star Trek:
The Next Generation;

522
00:27:40,192 --> 00:27:42,794
I said that's a joke,
that's a joke.

523
00:27:42,895 --> 00:27:44,763
But I want to meet Roddenberry.

524
00:27:44,863 --> 00:27:46,798
Who wouldn't wanna meet
Roddenberry?

525
00:27:46,899 --> 00:27:50,202
I was coming off two cop shows.

526
00:27:50,302 --> 00:27:53,572
I was coming off Miami Vice,
 very good show.

527
00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:56,976
Equalizer, very good show.

528
00:27:57,076 --> 00:27:59,011
So he gives me
the first episode to rewrite.

529
00:27:59,111 --> 00:28:00,947
We pass each other
in the hallway

530
00:28:01,047 --> 00:28:04,350
four or five times a day,
he won't look at me.

531
00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:06,452
Apparently Gene didn't like
what he wrote.

532
00:28:06,552 --> 00:28:07,954
It was probably the first time
we heard them battle.

533
00:28:08,054 --> 00:28:10,056
And he raises up
behind his desk,

534
00:28:10,156 --> 00:28:13,993
this great bird-like creature

535
00:28:14,093 --> 00:28:16,562
and he points his finger
at me like this and he says,

536
00:28:16,662 --> 00:28:22,601
"You don't know
 the difference between
 shields and deflectors."

537
00:28:22,701 --> 00:28:24,937
And that went on for weeks.

538
00:28:25,037 --> 00:28:29,608
What did that say to you about
what you were confronting?

539
00:28:29,708 --> 00:28:31,777
He didn't want me,
Hurley the writer.

540
00:28:31,877 --> 00:28:33,879
He didn't want me
to write me,

541
00:28:33,980 --> 00:28:37,483
he wanted me
to write him.

542
00:28:37,583 --> 00:28:40,852
Hurley:
 Gene's ideas about the future
 and about man

543
00:28:40,953 --> 00:28:42,888
are wacky doodle.

544
00:28:42,989 --> 00:28:47,126
He sees us now in our infancy
where we just gather
and accumulate

545
00:28:47,226 --> 00:28:49,928
like a three-year-old in a crib,
that's mine, that's mine,

546
00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:52,331
give me this, you can't have
that I need this, I need that.

547
00:28:52,431 --> 00:28:55,534
He believed that mankind
in the twenty-fourth century

548
00:28:55,634 --> 00:28:59,771
had resolved all conflict
between themselves.

549
00:28:59,871 --> 00:29:02,708
That developed between
the first Star Trek

550
00:29:02,808 --> 00:29:05,344
and the second Star Trek.

551
00:29:05,444 --> 00:29:08,380
Gerrold:
 Back in the 60's, Gene
 wanted to be the womanizer

552
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,117
and always gets
 the beautiful woman

553
00:29:11,217 --> 00:29:13,685
and always punches out
the bad guy and always wins.

554
00:29:13,785 --> 00:29:19,925
And in 1986, Gene is not
going to be down there on
the front lines punching,

555
00:29:20,026 --> 00:29:23,195
but he will be the all-seeing
advisor, the wise man.

556
00:29:23,295 --> 00:29:26,598
Gene's conception on Next Gen

557
00:29:26,698 --> 00:29:28,234
is almost heavenly

558
00:29:28,334 --> 00:29:31,370
in that everyone's at peace.

559
00:29:31,470 --> 00:29:34,473
Hurley:
 It takes away everything
 you need for drama

560
00:29:34,573 --> 00:29:38,344
in Gene's wacky doodle
vision of the future.

561
00:29:40,546 --> 00:29:44,816
Shatner:
The real trouble in year one
is the dictums,

562
00:29:44,916 --> 00:29:48,020
how to get a
good script out.

563
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,590
If you tell a writer
that the characters can't
have conflict between them,

564
00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:53,759
you're just cutting
his legs off.

565
00:29:53,859 --> 00:29:56,762
Some writers chaffed against
Gene's vision of a better future

566
00:29:56,862 --> 00:29:58,730
where there was no conflict.

567
00:29:58,830 --> 00:30:00,799
The essence of drama
is conflict.

568
00:30:00,899 --> 00:30:01,967
There was no evil.

569
00:30:02,068 --> 00:30:03,102
There's no money anymore.

570
00:30:03,202 --> 00:30:04,270
There was no jealousy.

571
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:05,704
There's no fighting anymore.

572
00:30:05,804 --> 00:30:08,540
No separate individual
goals or ideas.

573
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:09,808
We couldn't negotiate.

574
00:30:09,908 --> 00:30:12,044
No tension, what?

575
00:30:13,612 --> 00:30:16,548
I liked the dramatic
constraints it put on
me as a writer.

576
00:30:16,648 --> 00:30:17,949
Really?

577
00:30:18,050 --> 00:30:19,718
Well, I had to find new ways
to tell stories.

578
00:30:19,818 --> 00:30:21,487
When you look at
the original series

579
00:30:21,587 --> 00:30:22,621
there's a lot of conflict
between those characters,

580
00:30:22,721 --> 00:30:24,323
They argue a lot,

581
00:30:24,423 --> 00:30:26,592
and crewmen on the Enterprise
are yelling at each other.

582
00:30:26,692 --> 00:30:29,861
If our people are perfect
and have no conflicts or

583
00:30:29,961 --> 00:30:31,897
problems between them,
there is no story here.

584
00:30:31,997 --> 00:30:33,799
We would walk around
in each others' offices going,

585
00:30:33,899 --> 00:30:35,501
"I don't know how
to write about that,

586
00:30:35,601 --> 00:30:37,536
I don't know how to write
about perfect people."

587
00:30:37,636 --> 00:30:39,605
That was Gene's vision
of Star Trek: The Next
Generation,

588
00:30:39,705 --> 00:30:43,041
take it or leave it
and work within it or don't.

589
00:30:43,142 --> 00:30:47,413
The dictums gave the writers
a lot of stress and struggle,

590
00:30:47,513 --> 00:30:53,552
and then in most cases,
Gene would just take the scripts
and rewrite them.

591
00:30:53,652 --> 00:30:55,421
And these writers
were not used to that

592
00:30:55,521 --> 00:30:58,690
and that was very frustrating
and a lot of writers left.

593
00:30:58,790 --> 00:31:00,559
And the turnover
that first season

594
00:31:00,659 --> 00:31:04,496
was thirty writers and staff
members left the show.

595
00:31:04,596 --> 00:31:07,533
The first season of a TV show
with that kind of turnover?

596
00:31:07,633 --> 00:31:09,201
There was a writer
who wrote an episode,

597
00:31:09,301 --> 00:31:11,837
he was a huge Star Trek fan,
he was so excited.

598
00:31:11,937 --> 00:31:17,008
Gene called him to say
congratulations and Gene
told him how great it was.

599
00:31:17,109 --> 00:31:18,910
The next day Gene came
to him and said,

600
00:31:19,010 --> 00:31:22,314
"I'm sorry, friend, but we're
going to have to part company

601
00:31:22,414 --> 00:31:26,952
and he thought,
"Oh my God, Gene
is leaving the show."

602
00:31:27,052 --> 00:31:29,221
And then found out
the furniture in his office

603
00:31:29,321 --> 00:31:31,557
had been moved into the hallway
and that's how he found out

604
00:31:31,657 --> 00:31:34,393
he was fired and he lasted
about a week.

605
00:31:44,836 --> 00:31:48,140
Crosby:
 I know that the fans were
 always surprised that

606
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,178
this wasn't some glamorous,
red-carpeted,

607
00:31:52,278 --> 00:31:54,446
money-thrown-at-us affair.

608
00:31:54,546 --> 00:31:56,582
- On the first year.
- On the first year.

609
00:31:59,685 --> 00:32:02,053
Your trailer was so bad
you didn't want to go
back to it.

610
00:32:02,154 --> 00:32:03,622
It had no air
conditioning.

611
00:32:03,722 --> 00:32:06,958
No bathroom, no wash basin,
no telephone.

612
00:32:07,058 --> 00:32:08,994
They were those little
Jerry Lewis boxes,

613
00:32:09,094 --> 00:32:10,962
remember on the steel wheels?

614
00:32:11,062 --> 00:32:13,532
Things that they dug out
 of some back lot

615
00:32:13,632 --> 00:32:16,034
that no one had probably
 been in since 1953.

616
00:32:16,134 --> 00:32:17,536
You remember those?

617
00:32:17,636 --> 00:32:19,104
I do, I used to
look at them from afar.

618
00:32:19,205 --> 00:32:20,606
Of course you did.

619
00:32:20,706 --> 00:32:23,309
We were a syndicated
science fiction series,

620
00:32:23,409 --> 00:32:27,246
we were down the status
ladder at Paramount.

621
00:32:27,346 --> 00:32:29,748
I would go to Rick and say,

622
00:32:29,848 --> 00:32:32,551
"This is how much money we've
got to spend per episode."

623
00:32:32,651 --> 00:32:36,588
They weren't throwing
a lot our way in terms
of any perks.

624
00:32:36,688 --> 00:32:38,924
If I was in trouble financially,
I could go to Rick and say,

625
00:32:39,024 --> 00:32:42,528
"Rick, I need two million
dollars this year.
Can you find it?"

626
00:32:42,628 --> 00:32:44,263
And he said,
"I'll get it for you."

627
00:32:44,363 --> 00:32:47,633
I used to go and steal food
from the set of Cheers.

628
00:32:47,733 --> 00:32:49,368
You mean there were
no craft services table?

629
00:32:49,468 --> 00:32:50,836
Not really.

630
00:32:50,936 --> 00:32:53,272
Rick at the end of the year...
on the numbers.

631
00:32:53,372 --> 00:32:56,141
We would literally have
sliced tomatoes and Cremora.

632
00:32:56,242 --> 00:32:57,976
So this made you think what?

633
00:32:58,076 --> 00:33:03,181
Well, you feel like the
illegitimate bastard
in the back lot.

634
00:33:09,721 --> 00:33:11,357
Hurley:
 Gene at this time in
 his life didn't really

635
00:33:11,457 --> 00:33:14,993
care about the management
 of television,

636
00:33:15,093 --> 00:33:16,328
it's a sausage factory.

637
00:33:16,428 --> 00:33:18,464
You got to turn
out a sausage every day.

638
00:33:22,701 --> 00:33:25,771
He would come up with a story,
say this is the story
we want to do,

639
00:33:25,871 --> 00:33:28,640
then when that story was written
out, he'd want to tear it up

640
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:31,643
and throw it away.
"Oh, no. I got a better idea."

641
00:33:31,743 --> 00:33:34,280
Gene would read a script
three days before shooting

642
00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:36,548
and decide he didn't like it.

643
00:33:36,648 --> 00:33:38,884
If you throw this story away
because this one

644
00:33:38,984 --> 00:33:42,254
is different, but not better,
the machine breaks down.

645
00:33:42,354 --> 00:33:47,125
Because this has to go to
the stage and we have to have
something to shoot on Monday.

646
00:33:47,225 --> 00:33:48,894
Meanwhile we had
a production meeting and

647
00:33:48,994 --> 00:33:50,729
everything had been set
for this episode

648
00:33:50,829 --> 00:33:52,898
and suddenly we were having
to make changes.

649
00:33:52,998 --> 00:33:56,067
So, I wanted to leave.
He said, "I'm turning
the show over to you."

650
00:33:56,167 --> 00:33:59,905
And I said,
"I'll do the show if you leave."

651
00:34:00,005 --> 00:34:04,343
And he said Majel and I were
 thinking of going to Tahiti.

652
00:34:04,443 --> 00:34:07,913
I said, "I'll buy your ticket
and make your reservation."

653
00:34:08,013 --> 00:34:09,014
And he left.

654
00:34:12,083 --> 00:34:17,255
This trip that they took
had an enormous effect
on the show.

655
00:34:17,356 --> 00:34:19,124
It couldn't have been
at a worse time.

656
00:34:19,224 --> 00:34:23,228
And that's where Berman
and I took his idea
and ran with it.

657
00:34:23,329 --> 00:34:26,231
Rick Berman and Maury Hurley
were trying very hard

658
00:34:26,332 --> 00:34:29,401
to respect Gene's wishes
and perhaps they were doing so

659
00:34:29,501 --> 00:34:30,902
a little too literally.

660
00:34:31,002 --> 00:34:32,871
If in one instance
Gene said,

661
00:34:32,971 --> 00:34:35,474
"No that should be blue."
Suddenly everything had
to be blue.

662
00:34:35,574 --> 00:34:39,711
Gene had intended fully
to step away and he found
he couldn't.

663
00:34:39,811 --> 00:34:41,947
I don't think he realized things
would get so out of control

664
00:34:42,047 --> 00:34:44,350
so quickly.

665
00:34:44,450 --> 00:34:48,286
Maury got elevated to sort of
 the show runner position

666
00:34:48,387 --> 00:34:50,456
I was a little surprised
because he had never

667
00:34:50,556 --> 00:34:53,425
written any science fiction
in his life, he had done
mostly cop shows.

668
00:34:53,525 --> 00:34:56,662
People questioned Maury's
ability to run a room.

669
00:34:56,762 --> 00:34:58,296
Maury didn't like the way
certain people took notes.

670
00:34:58,397 --> 00:35:00,766
I don't really care
what people think.

671
00:35:00,866 --> 00:35:03,502
I mean, when I'm doing what
I'm doing, I don't care.

672
00:35:03,602 --> 00:35:05,471
I'm going to do what
I'm going to do and
that's the way it is.

673
00:35:05,571 --> 00:35:07,739
First thing he did was
he took Bob Lewin and he

674
00:35:07,839 --> 00:35:10,409
moved him to a tiny little
office on the ground floor and

675
00:35:10,509 --> 00:35:13,745
took all of his power away,
and I didn't like that at all.

676
00:35:13,845 --> 00:35:16,982
I grew up in a show business
family and I've seen all
of the bull shit,

677
00:35:17,082 --> 00:35:18,049
and I don't like it.

678
00:35:18,149 --> 00:35:20,752
The power pull.

679
00:35:20,852 --> 00:35:23,188
The politics and
the back stabbing
and all that stuff.

680
00:35:23,288 --> 00:35:25,891
- All for?
- For personal power.

681
00:35:25,991 --> 00:35:29,728
Maury was really trying
to stick with Gene's plan,

682
00:35:29,828 --> 00:35:32,564
and I think was a lot of
resentment about that too

683
00:35:32,664 --> 00:35:34,900
because a lot of people
would come in and they had
their own ideas.

684
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,837
And you know Gene
didn't want anybody
to have their own ideas,

685
00:35:38,937 --> 00:35:40,806
this was his world.

686
00:35:40,906 --> 00:35:43,575
No writer could come in
and give me an idea
that I would accept--

687
00:35:43,675 --> 00:35:46,812
no matter how great
the idea was--

688
00:35:46,912 --> 00:35:49,548
if it broke that concept.

689
00:35:51,517 --> 00:35:53,919
I wrote this thing
called Conspiracy

690
00:35:54,019 --> 00:35:57,322
and I was intentionally
trying to shake things up

691
00:35:57,423 --> 00:35:59,625
and do a different
kind of story.

692
00:36:01,192 --> 00:36:02,594
I was the keeper
of the grail

693
00:36:02,694 --> 00:36:04,796
and nothing was going
to change it.

694
00:36:06,932 --> 00:36:09,267
Maury came back to me
and said it's not Star Trek,

695
00:36:09,367 --> 00:36:12,404
it's too dark, it's got a dark
ending, it's unhappy,

696
00:36:12,504 --> 00:36:14,706
it's this and that,
and he turned it down.

697
00:36:14,806 --> 00:36:16,842
Somebody overruled him and maybe
it was Rick Berman,

698
00:36:16,942 --> 00:36:20,078
but somebody loved the script
and that it was exactly

699
00:36:20,178 --> 00:36:22,781
what we should be doing,

700
00:36:22,881 --> 00:36:25,551
but Maury and I had a very bad
relationship from that point on.

701
00:36:34,325 --> 00:36:36,462
Stewart:
In that first season
we'd had Denise go

702
00:36:36,562 --> 00:36:40,832
half way through the season
which was just such a screw up.

703
00:36:40,932 --> 00:36:45,203
Episodes would go by
and I'd maybe say,
"Aye, aye, Captain."

704
00:36:45,303 --> 00:36:47,773
She was such
a popular character.

705
00:36:47,873 --> 00:36:51,342
Now Denise Crosby clearly
is not Katherine Hepburn

706
00:36:51,443 --> 00:36:52,911
but you know the camera
really loved her.

707
00:36:53,011 --> 00:36:56,214
I used to ask them to do
a mock up of my legs

708
00:36:56,314 --> 00:36:59,150
and just put them up there
on the bridge.

709
00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:00,886
You'd have to
come in for a shot.

710
00:37:00,986 --> 00:37:03,054
I was always there,
fifteen hour days just

711
00:37:03,154 --> 00:37:06,124
standing on the horse shoe.
The actor inside of me

712
00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:07,893
was beginning to chew
on my own arm.

713
00:37:07,993 --> 00:37:11,129
And Denise quit after
twenty some odd episodes to

714
00:37:11,229 --> 00:37:13,198
become a "motion picture star."

715
00:37:13,298 --> 00:37:15,667
When I think about the Israeli
Palestinian negotiations,

716
00:37:15,767 --> 00:37:19,037
I think about,
you know, sometimes
they seem to negotiate

717
00:37:19,137 --> 00:37:22,107
the way the studio was
negociating with Denise's people

718
00:37:22,207 --> 00:37:24,543
and it ended up with her
just going.

719
00:37:27,212 --> 00:37:28,980
I don't think
 you can sustain a show

720
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,718
where the characters are not
accessible to the audience.

721
00:37:32,818 --> 00:37:36,755
Where you don't see somebody
over coming a flaw,

722
00:37:36,855 --> 00:37:40,325
if there's no conflict and no
tension between people,

723
00:37:40,425 --> 00:37:44,195
then there's no relationship
between people and that show
will wither.

724
00:37:44,295 --> 00:37:45,564
And that's what
was happening.

725
00:37:45,664 --> 00:37:47,566
I tried to make it sustain,

726
00:37:47,666 --> 00:37:51,002
I wanted to create
this new adversary, The Borg,

727
00:37:51,102 --> 00:37:53,505
I want the Federation
to form allies against

728
00:37:53,605 --> 00:37:57,809
this overwhelming,
awesome adversary.

729
00:37:57,909 --> 00:38:01,913
At the end of the first season
there's an episode called
The Neutral Zone,

730
00:38:02,013 --> 00:38:04,950
which was the arc for the second
season, and the arc for the

731
00:38:05,050 --> 00:38:08,787
second season was going to be
here come The Borg.

732
00:38:11,957 --> 00:38:15,126
At the end of the second season
they defeat The Borg.

733
00:38:15,226 --> 00:38:16,161
Then what happened?

734
00:38:16,261 --> 00:38:17,929
Writers strike.

735
00:38:18,029 --> 00:38:20,599
End of the first season,
 writers strike begins.

736
00:38:20,699 --> 00:38:22,568
Couldn't talk
to the writers,

737
00:38:22,668 --> 00:38:24,469
couldn't talk to Roddenberry.

738
00:38:24,570 --> 00:38:26,371
And the hiatus
dragged on and on and on,

739
00:38:26,471 --> 00:38:29,140
it was five and a half months.

740
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:32,611
Stewart:
 I remember having lunch
 with a couple of

741
00:38:32,711 --> 00:38:34,980
executives from Paramount
and they were saying,

742
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,418
"It's really bad, and I think
your show will be one of the
first to be canceled

743
00:38:40,518 --> 00:38:42,588
it's looking so bad."

744
00:38:42,688 --> 00:38:45,724
And I had already adjusted
to the idea that maybe we'd get

745
00:38:45,824 --> 00:38:47,793
two or three years
out of this show.

746
00:38:49,094 --> 00:38:51,529
Suddenly, the strike
 was resolved and we

747
00:38:51,630 --> 00:38:55,266
went back and we started the
second season very late,

748
00:38:55,366 --> 00:38:57,535
and we started it
without Gates.

749
00:39:00,038 --> 00:39:03,074
Shatner:
The end of the first season,
Paramount Studios

750
00:39:03,174 --> 00:39:07,145
was more than happy that their
gamble on the rebooted series

751
00:39:07,245 --> 00:39:08,980
was paying dividends,

752
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,018
but on the inside,
behind the scenes,

753
00:39:13,118 --> 00:39:17,022
oh, the in fighting, the chaos,
and the power shifts

754
00:39:17,122 --> 00:39:20,826
was about to get worse.
And in the center of it,

755
00:39:20,926 --> 00:39:24,930
a man that I've worked with and
deeply admire, Maury Hurley.

756
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:27,232
Shatner:
 Tell me the story
 of Gates McFadden.

757
00:39:27,332 --> 00:39:31,336
She's let go at the end
 of the first season and
 then she's rehired.

758
00:39:31,436 --> 00:39:33,138
Tell me how that happens.

759
00:39:33,238 --> 00:39:36,007
At the end of the first season
Hurley became the successor

760
00:39:36,107 --> 00:39:38,576
to all of the other
writers and was going to be

761
00:39:38,677 --> 00:39:40,979
coming back as the head writer.

762
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:43,915
He felt very insistant
about a new doctor.

763
00:39:44,015 --> 00:39:46,517
Gates McFadden:
 Coming out of academia,
 having done a lot of

764
00:39:46,618 --> 00:39:48,519
stage direction, and being
 in New York theatre,

765
00:39:48,620 --> 00:39:50,255
I was used to

766
00:39:50,355 --> 00:39:51,657
you can sort of say what
you think about

767
00:39:51,757 --> 00:39:53,358
something,
and you're respected.

768
00:39:53,458 --> 00:39:56,394
You fight your argument,
and then you either win or lose.

769
00:39:56,494 --> 00:40:00,699
He just didn't like
the way the character of
Doctor Crusher was working out.

770
00:40:00,799 --> 00:40:03,802
There'd been a few issues
over that first season

771
00:40:03,902 --> 00:40:06,938
about Doctor Crusher's
character, and I think
they thought at times

772
00:40:07,038 --> 00:40:09,675
that Gates was a little bit
high handed and

773
00:40:09,775 --> 00:40:14,713
you know, maybe being
a little demanding.

774
00:40:14,813 --> 00:40:18,049
I never experienced that.

775
00:40:18,149 --> 00:40:20,618
I had heard that somebody
said it's either her or me,

776
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,120
you know, one of us has to go.

777
00:40:22,220 --> 00:40:25,924
She was adored
and suddenly she was gone.

778
00:40:27,192 --> 00:40:31,062
We ended up casting
Diana Muldaur who was

779
00:40:31,162 --> 00:40:33,231
a pretty well-known
TV actress at the time.

780
00:40:33,331 --> 00:40:35,000
That never quite worked.

781
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:36,668
Why?

782
00:40:36,768 --> 00:40:39,470
Just didn't get on with the cast
all that well and the character

783
00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:44,609
of Doctor Pulaski
never quite solidified.

784
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:48,113
It was awkward
a lot of the time.

785
00:40:48,213 --> 00:40:50,448
Muldaur: They were not
that interested in renewing me,

786
00:40:50,548 --> 00:40:53,018
and I was certainly not
that interested.

787
00:40:53,118 --> 00:40:55,253
When I worked with you
we had scenes,

788
00:40:55,353 --> 00:40:57,723
because it was all actors.

789
00:40:57,823 --> 00:41:01,559
By the time you got to
Star Trek: The Next Generation,

790
00:41:01,659 --> 00:41:04,529
it was a vast technical world

791
00:41:04,629 --> 00:41:07,432
that had some characters
placed in it.

792
00:41:12,370 --> 00:41:14,339
At the end
of the second season

793
00:41:14,439 --> 00:41:17,508
I remember feeling like Maury
was getting very frustrated.

794
00:41:17,608 --> 00:41:20,712
Gene would allow things
to come into the show

795
00:41:20,812 --> 00:41:24,315
that were against
his own concept,

796
00:41:24,415 --> 00:41:28,119
and I would go ballistic.

797
00:41:28,219 --> 00:41:31,957
Maury had kind of gotten
the show back to where
it had fallen apart

798
00:41:32,057 --> 00:41:34,125
because of the
writers strike.

799
00:41:34,225 --> 00:41:36,862
Hurley:
 He said, "This episode is good,
 I want to do this episode."

800
00:41:36,962 --> 00:41:39,731
And then he'd say,
"This episode is crap."

801
00:41:39,831 --> 00:41:43,802
When I have to fight Roddenberry
about maintaining

802
00:41:43,902 --> 00:41:48,073
the integrity of his concept,
I know I've lost the fight.

803
00:41:48,173 --> 00:41:50,275
He didn't seem to want
to be there anymore,
I think he was tired.

804
00:41:50,375 --> 00:41:54,279
I think he was tired
of fighting whoever he
was fighting.

805
00:41:54,379 --> 00:41:57,048
And egos kicked in
in the second year. Big time.

806
00:41:57,148 --> 00:42:00,685
Mine as much or maybe more
than anybody's.

807
00:42:00,786 --> 00:42:02,821
I get a call from the set;

808
00:42:02,921 --> 00:42:05,456
Patrick Stewart
 won't read this line.

809
00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:08,559
There was an argument
and it went on a little bit
too long.

810
00:42:08,659 --> 00:42:11,329
Patrick got a
little angry.

811
00:42:11,429 --> 00:42:12,764
So now it's this.

812
00:42:12,864 --> 00:42:14,766
It's the producer
and the actor.

813
00:42:14,866 --> 00:42:17,803
And he sort of said if you guys
don't get out of here

814
00:42:17,903 --> 00:42:19,838
I'm getting out of here.

815
00:42:19,938 --> 00:42:22,740
I say to Berman,
"Fire them all.

816
00:42:22,841 --> 00:42:26,211
I'll build the second season
on the absolute tragedy

817
00:42:26,311 --> 00:42:29,580
that the Enterprise
exploded by unknown cause.

818
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,820
And lost everybody and
now we must find the
new Enterprise crew.

819
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,823
Systems are off line.
Core breach is eminent.

820
00:42:37,923 --> 00:42:42,260
All hands abandon ship.
Repeat, all hands abandon--

821
00:42:47,298 --> 00:42:49,234
( ringing )

822
00:42:49,334 --> 00:42:51,236
Rick Berman called me
one day and said,

823
00:42:51,336 --> 00:42:53,771
"We've got a problem.
Patrick's very unhappy.

824
00:42:53,872 --> 00:42:56,407
He's creatively
not being satisfied.

825
00:42:56,507 --> 00:42:59,144
I said, "I'll fix that."

826
00:42:59,244 --> 00:43:02,780
I said, "Have Patrick
 come over and meet me
 for lunch today,

827
00:43:02,881 --> 00:43:07,218
I want to make sure
that he is in costume,
it'll be a one o'clock lunch."

828
00:43:07,318 --> 00:43:13,158
I happened to have a table
in the back of the executive
Paramount dining room.

829
00:43:13,258 --> 00:43:15,393
At one o'clock
the commissary is packed,

830
00:43:15,493 --> 00:43:19,197
so I intentionally said
to my assistant at the time,

831
00:43:19,297 --> 00:43:22,467
"Maris, let me know
when it's one fifteen."
She said you're meeting

832
00:43:22,567 --> 00:43:24,269
Patrick at one o'clock.

833
00:43:24,369 --> 00:43:26,471
I said let me know
when it's one fifteen.

834
00:43:26,571 --> 00:43:27,906
You're a game player.

835
00:43:28,006 --> 00:43:30,675
Patrick walks in promptly
at one o'clock,

836
00:43:30,775 --> 00:43:33,912
goes back to the table
in costume,

837
00:43:34,012 --> 00:43:39,284
sits down by himself and now
has to wait for fifteen minutes.

838
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:44,822
And I walk up and
I'm out of breath

839
00:43:44,923 --> 00:43:46,824
and I say,
"Patrick let's just cut to it.

840
00:43:46,925 --> 00:43:50,595
I do know that you are not
creatively not being taxed.

841
00:43:50,695 --> 00:43:53,131
You're going to have to bear
with us for a couple more weeks

842
00:43:53,231 --> 00:43:55,666
but we've already
put the script in the works

843
00:43:55,766 --> 00:43:58,970
and we will write
your character out.

844
00:43:59,070 --> 00:44:02,473
Now, I'm looking at an actor
who isn't even blinking.

845
00:44:02,573 --> 00:44:04,342
What are you talking about?

846
00:44:04,442 --> 00:44:07,913
The one thing I don't want
is my lead actor unhappy.

847
00:44:08,013 --> 00:44:10,148
Let's just cut through
this thing,

848
00:44:10,248 --> 00:44:12,717
no harm, no foul,
I'd like to thank you.

849
00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:14,685
John, that's terrible.

850
00:44:14,785 --> 00:44:18,089
Patrick Stewart
and I never had another
discussion after that.

851
00:44:19,424 --> 00:44:21,927
I was interested in the
comment that John made

852
00:44:22,027 --> 00:44:26,031
because I don't recall
that meeting very well.

853
00:44:26,131 --> 00:44:28,934
I recall another meeting,
which was very different.

854
00:44:29,034 --> 00:44:31,169
We were advised
 by the studio

855
00:44:31,269 --> 00:44:33,939
that Good Morning America
 would be coming into town,

856
00:44:34,039 --> 00:44:36,207
they were going to film on
 the set of Cheers

857
00:44:36,307 --> 00:44:37,608
and they were

858
00:44:37,708 --> 00:44:40,611
going to film on the set
of Star Trek.

859
00:44:40,711 --> 00:44:42,613
I said, "No, screw you.

860
00:44:42,713 --> 00:44:46,651
We are working
 12,14,16 hours a day

861
00:44:46,751 --> 00:44:48,853
to persuade people
that we are living

862
00:44:48,954 --> 00:44:51,322
in the twenty-fourth century
and we're out in space.

863
00:44:51,422 --> 00:44:54,825
They basically said,
"There's nothing to be done,

864
00:44:54,926 --> 00:44:56,527
you're just an actor."

865
00:44:56,627 --> 00:44:59,397
I said, "Okay, can we
lay down some ground rules?"

866
00:44:59,497 --> 00:45:03,234
Taking this stuff very,
very seriously for the sake
of our fans.

867
00:45:03,334 --> 00:45:08,106
No gags, no jokes,
no Klingon jokes,
no fooling around.

868
00:45:08,206 --> 00:45:10,075
And they said,
"No, no absolutely not.

869
00:45:10,175 --> 00:45:12,643
There's going to be
nothing like that."

870
00:45:12,743 --> 00:45:16,347
And so I walk onto our set,
the show is going out live,

871
00:45:16,447 --> 00:45:19,684
just in time to hear them say,
"And now we're going over

872
00:45:19,784 --> 00:45:21,452
to today's weather forecast,

873
00:45:21,552 --> 00:45:25,290
now here's your weather man...
wearing my uniform.

874
00:45:25,390 --> 00:45:28,359
He's wearing
the captain's uniform.

875
00:45:28,459 --> 00:45:32,397
I won't repeat what I said,
but I walked off the set.

876
00:45:32,497 --> 00:45:35,366
"We're live, we're live,
you've been announced

877
00:45:35,466 --> 00:45:39,170
we're coming here." I said,
"-- you. I'm out of here."

878
00:45:41,539 --> 00:45:44,009
I had hardly been home
 more than a few minutes
 before my phone rang.

879
00:45:44,109 --> 00:45:46,377
( phone ringing )

880
00:45:46,477 --> 00:45:50,315
John Pike wants to see you
 in his office at two o'clock
 this afternoon.

881
00:45:50,415 --> 00:45:54,552
I stood in front of his desk
and was basically read
the riot act.

882
00:45:54,652 --> 00:45:58,089
He said I'd let the studio down,
I'd embarrassed the studio,

883
00:45:58,189 --> 00:46:00,891
they were trying to keep
it out of the press

884
00:46:00,992 --> 00:46:05,096
and we finished the
conversation and I was about
to leave and he said,

885
00:46:05,196 --> 00:46:09,600
"By the way, off the record,
I totally understand

886
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:11,836
why you did what you did.

887
00:46:11,936 --> 00:46:14,339
And I said,
"Thank you, John."

888
00:46:16,574 --> 00:46:18,509
The first best
thing was when I took over

889
00:46:18,609 --> 00:46:22,413
Roddenberry's idea. That was the
first best thing that happened.

890
00:46:22,513 --> 00:46:26,017
The second best that happened
was when they didn't pick me up

891
00:46:26,117 --> 00:46:30,955
for the third year. When I left
the gate at Paramount I was

892
00:46:31,056 --> 00:46:35,593
laughing I said, this is
insanity, I have just left the

893
00:46:35,693 --> 00:46:40,431
coo coo house. Just go down to
Paramount you'll find a great

894
00:46:40,531 --> 00:46:45,236
bird of the universe only no
body knew he was a coo coo bird.

895
00:46:50,075 --> 00:46:51,676
Moore:
First and second seasons
of Next Generation

896
00:46:51,776 --> 00:46:53,411
are almost unwatchable
in almost all honesty.

897
00:46:53,511 --> 00:46:57,282
They're very plot driven
and very alien of the week.

898
00:46:57,382 --> 00:47:00,485
The shows are kind of creaky
and don't work very well.

899
00:47:00,585 --> 00:47:03,521
But there was some
crucial concepts that were done

900
00:47:03,621 --> 00:47:05,556
in the first couple years,
some things that would

901
00:47:05,656 --> 00:47:11,896
reverberate through the entire
series. Like The Borg, the idea

902
00:47:11,996 --> 00:47:18,436
of Q, the holodeck in my opinion
was Gene's greatest invention in

903
00:47:18,536 --> 00:47:21,506
the Next Generation it was very
ahead of his time

904
00:47:21,606 --> 00:47:25,076
Making a show is difficult under
any circumstances,

905
00:47:25,176 --> 00:47:28,979
especially early on, but
the story telling got sharper.

906
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,047
As it went on.

907
00:47:30,148 --> 00:47:32,150
As the show found itself.

908
00:47:32,250 --> 00:47:37,355
It had the advantage
of having a great brand
behind it before it started.

909
00:47:37,455 --> 00:47:41,058
People were giving it
more of a chance to last longer

910
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:43,228
than a show that had no
brand recognition whatsoever.

911
00:47:43,328 --> 00:47:47,265
The fan base kept the show
on the air for those first
two rocky years.

912
00:47:47,365 --> 00:47:48,933
And that's an amazing
salute to the audience

913
00:47:49,033 --> 00:47:50,835
that's out there for
this material.

914
00:47:50,935 --> 00:47:53,104
They were going to stick
with it, they were going
to stick with it

915
00:47:53,204 --> 00:47:55,039
and believe it was going
to be better.

916
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:59,610
The ship had tilted,
you know, all the way
over on its side

917
00:47:59,710 --> 00:48:07,017
already and Rick
was just at that point
tearing his hair out.

918
00:48:07,118 --> 00:48:10,755
The first day I walked
into someone's office

919
00:48:10,855 --> 00:48:12,557
and they said come
into this bathroom.

920
00:48:12,657 --> 00:48:16,594
I used to have a big board
that was in my bathroom.

921
00:48:16,694 --> 00:48:18,729
And there on the wall
printed out was the name

922
00:48:18,829 --> 00:48:22,867
of every writer who had
gotten fired so far in
the first two seasons.

923
00:48:22,967 --> 00:48:24,802
How many names?

924
00:48:24,902 --> 00:48:28,473
It was a lot of names
on a show that was only
around for two seasons.

925
00:48:28,573 --> 00:48:30,608
I have the third season
fixed in my head

926
00:48:30,708 --> 00:48:37,815
as being a time when there
was a change in style.

927
00:48:42,653 --> 00:48:45,523
Berman:
Michael Pillar was a writer
who had written on a

928
00:48:45,623 --> 00:48:49,727
number of network television
shows and a very rigid producing

929
00:48:49,827 --> 00:48:53,097
writer when it came to the
process and he believed that

930
00:48:53,198 --> 00:48:57,802
the process that existed prior
to his arrival was a mess.

931
00:48:59,637 --> 00:49:03,007
Shatner:
In the context of the way
Maury Hurley ran his room.

932
00:49:03,107 --> 00:49:06,076
How was the room that
Michael organized?

933
00:49:06,177 --> 00:49:09,814
Ira Behr was sort of his number
two and Ira was the guy

934
00:49:09,914 --> 00:49:11,582
in the trenches with us.

935
00:49:11,682 --> 00:49:13,751
Michael had never run a show,
Michael wanted me

936
00:49:13,851 --> 00:49:17,555
to deal with the writers.
Michael stayed in his room as

937
00:49:17,655 --> 00:49:22,593
often as he could to do re
writes. When I finally got a

938
00:49:22,693 --> 00:49:27,198
script of my own to write,
I came up with this idea

939
00:49:27,298 --> 00:49:29,367
of this pleasure planet.

940
00:49:30,901 --> 00:49:33,103
Captain's Holiday,
the visit to Risa

941
00:49:33,204 --> 00:49:35,273
it's the only planet name
I actually remember.

942
00:49:35,373 --> 00:49:37,141
Patrick kept saying
the trouble with the show

943
00:49:37,242 --> 00:49:42,046
is there's not enough f-ing and
f-ing. Fighting and fornicating.

944
00:49:42,146 --> 00:49:44,815
And I said I have a feeling
our audience

945
00:49:44,915 --> 00:49:47,685
might like to see our captain

946
00:49:47,785 --> 00:49:49,320
just getting blown away
by meeting somebody new.

947
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:51,622
The writers were real excited.
Well Rick says,

948
00:49:51,722 --> 00:49:56,927
"You've got to go in to see
Gene. So I go in and he's very

949
00:49:57,027 --> 00:50:01,566
nice but he says,
"I like the idea of pleasure
planet and I want it

950
00:50:01,666 --> 00:50:06,671
to be a place where you see
women fondling and kissing
other women,

951
00:50:06,771 --> 00:50:11,342
and men hugging and holding
hands and kissing

952
00:50:11,442 --> 00:50:14,679
and we can imply
that they're having sex
in the background.

953
00:50:14,779 --> 00:50:19,484
Huh, really?
I'm going, "Oh, man, I'm in
the freakin' twilight zone."

954
00:50:21,118 --> 00:50:24,789
I go back to Rick,
he goes, "Pft, pay no
attention to that,

955
00:50:24,889 --> 00:50:27,525
just get the
captain laid."

956
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,135
I think Gene knew
that there had been this

957
00:50:38,235 --> 00:50:41,706
subtle erosion of his
authority and power.

958
00:50:41,806 --> 00:50:44,942
The equation moved from Gene,
Rick, Michael to just Rick and

959
00:50:45,042 --> 00:50:48,313
Michael, because Gene's health
had started to fail and he was

960
00:50:48,413 --> 00:50:49,914
less and less involved.

961
00:50:50,014 --> 00:50:51,949
They knew there were
workarounds

962
00:50:52,049 --> 00:50:53,684
for things they wanted
to have done.

963
00:50:53,784 --> 00:50:56,186
And Michael along with Rick
found a way to make

964
00:50:56,287 --> 00:50:58,289
the show work better.

965
00:50:58,389 --> 00:51:01,759
Michael refocused the show,
he said this is all about
our characters

966
00:51:01,859 --> 00:51:05,763
this is a war story,
this is a Picard story,

967
00:51:05,863 --> 00:51:09,567
this is a Data story.
How is this episode going
to affect one of our people

968
00:51:09,667 --> 00:51:12,470
and make it a character-oriented
show in that sense?

969
00:51:12,570 --> 00:51:16,273
And that fundamentally
shifted the direction of
everything.

970
00:51:16,374 --> 00:51:18,343
Michael Pillar who's very
adept at creating

971
00:51:18,443 --> 00:51:20,445
conflict between characters
that was so organic

972
00:51:20,545 --> 00:51:24,349
that you didn't question it.

973
00:51:24,449 --> 00:51:27,452
- Data.
- And what Klingons do
to their children.

974
00:51:27,552 --> 00:51:29,119
Data, I am not talking
about parenting,

975
00:51:29,219 --> 00:51:30,988
I am talking about the
extraordinary consequences

976
00:51:31,088 --> 00:51:32,790
of creating a new life.

977
00:51:32,890 --> 00:51:37,428
Does that not describe
becoming a parent sir?

978
00:51:41,732 --> 00:51:44,101
Moore:
 When I started in third season,

979
00:51:44,201 --> 00:51:48,439
we were still the bastard
step child of Star Trek.

980
00:51:48,539 --> 00:51:51,008
All we were still getting
was Picard isn't Kirk

981
00:51:51,108 --> 00:51:53,277
and there's no Spock.

982
00:51:53,378 --> 00:51:55,746
And we were the pretenders
and we weren't Star Trek

983
00:51:55,846 --> 00:51:58,182
and there's only one real
Star Trek and that was the one

984
00:51:58,282 --> 00:51:59,417
with Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

985
00:51:59,517 --> 00:52:01,051
Even though Gene
was running it.

986
00:52:01,151 --> 00:52:03,388
How did you feel when
you heard that there

987
00:52:03,488 --> 00:52:05,289
was going to be
a new Star Trek?

988
00:52:05,390 --> 00:52:07,458
Did that piss you off?
Seriously.

989
00:52:07,558 --> 00:52:09,627
I had a twinge. Absolutely,
it was a sense of loss.

990
00:52:09,727 --> 00:52:12,963
When I heard Star Trek
and my name isn't
associated with it.

991
00:52:13,063 --> 00:52:18,436
I had a twinge to saying,
"You're now the captain
to Patrick."

992
00:52:19,837 --> 00:52:22,139
It wasn't until after
The Best of Both Worlds

993
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,711
cliff hanger that you felt the
whole thing shift and suddenly

994
00:52:26,811 --> 00:52:28,212
we were Star Trek.

995
00:52:28,312 --> 00:52:35,052
I am Locutus of Borg.
Reistance is futile

996
00:52:36,353 --> 00:52:41,058
Your life as it has been
is over.

997
00:52:44,128 --> 00:52:48,065
Mister Worf, fire.

998
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,870
But what was genius
is that it took Picard

999
00:52:52,970 --> 00:52:56,807
who compared to Kirk was an
administrator more than an

1000
00:52:56,907 --> 00:53:02,480
adventurer and by cutting him
off and turning him into a Borg

1001
00:53:02,580 --> 00:53:05,416
it kind of gave his
humanity back to him

1002
00:53:05,516 --> 00:53:10,387
Making the man more human
and vulnerable

1003
00:53:10,488 --> 00:53:14,058
and prone to error
and mistake,

1004
00:53:14,158 --> 00:53:17,528
was a great decision.

1005
00:53:26,203 --> 00:53:30,374
When I came in, I sensed
that there was a
transition going on.

1006
00:53:30,475 --> 00:53:33,644
Gene was beginning to phase
out

1007
00:53:33,744 --> 00:53:35,980
and Rick
was ceasing power.

1008
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,750
Rick was generous and allowed
me into some of his thinking

1009
00:53:39,850 --> 00:53:42,887
and some of his long-term
planning and to

1010
00:53:42,987 --> 00:53:47,892
just talk in a relaxed way about
the future of the series which

1011
00:53:47,992 --> 00:53:51,796
I'd never really been able
to do with Gene

1012
00:53:51,896 --> 00:53:53,798
Everybody that
worked there could see the

1013
00:53:53,898 --> 00:53:57,367
deterioration of Gene is his
walking, his talking and his

1014
00:53:57,468 --> 00:54:01,739
ability to kind of communicate
had changed drastically

1015
00:54:03,207 --> 00:54:07,912
When a powerful figure
like a king or an emperor

1016
00:54:08,012 --> 00:54:13,417
has their faculties erode and
therefore their power erodes

1017
00:54:13,518 --> 00:54:15,520
that diffusion of power

1018
00:54:15,620 --> 00:54:19,490
Eventually I think Rick Berman
solidified the power,
he replaced Gene.

1019
00:54:19,590 --> 00:54:23,594
Gene was clinging to the
world he had built trying

1020
00:54:23,694 --> 00:54:26,864
to make it the most beautiful
thing it could be.

1021
00:54:26,964 --> 00:54:32,036
A vision of humanity
and I think he became
far more obsessed with his

1022
00:54:32,136 --> 00:54:37,908
legacy then he was with his
history of a storyteller.

1023
00:54:38,008 --> 00:54:41,946
The guy who created Star Trek
why in trains with the stars.

1024
00:54:42,046 --> 00:54:45,816
As his health failed,
as his faculties were failing
I got sense from a man

1025
00:54:45,916 --> 00:54:49,086
that things were simply
slipping away from him

1026
00:54:50,588 --> 00:54:53,958
We had been sitting watching
dailies after lunch

1027
00:54:54,058 --> 00:54:56,761
and Michael Pillar pulled
every body into his office

1028
00:54:56,861 --> 00:54:59,163
and every body came from the
set, I knew something was up

1029
00:54:59,263 --> 00:55:02,933
but I didn't know what it was
and I had a really bad feeling
and he announced

1030
00:55:03,033 --> 00:55:06,571
that Gene Roddenberry
had died that morning.

1031
00:55:12,076 --> 00:55:13,944
Shatner:
Gene's passing brought
an end to an era,

1032
00:55:14,044 --> 00:55:16,914
but also gave a new group of
talented writers and producers

1033
00:55:17,014 --> 00:55:21,185
an opportunity to take the
franchise to new worlds

1034
00:55:34,164 --> 00:55:36,934
If we had not shifted
from plot to character

1035
00:55:37,034 --> 00:55:40,237
in the third season the show
would've continued but I don't

1036
00:55:40,337 --> 00:55:44,675
think it would've broken through
the way it did. I think it

1037
00:55:44,775 --> 00:55:47,077
would've been that other series
that they did of Star Trek and I

1038
00:55:47,177 --> 00:55:51,916
get the feeling that Star Trek
would of kind of stopped there

1039
00:55:52,016 --> 00:55:53,984
would've been a Deep Space Nine
there would not have been a

1040
00:55:54,084 --> 00:55:58,155
Voyager and so on and certainly
not more movies.

1041
00:55:58,255 --> 00:56:00,190
If he had not come back
and done The Next Generation,

1042
00:56:00,290 --> 00:56:02,927
I think there would
be people that would say that

1043
00:56:03,027 --> 00:56:06,897
Gene Roddenberry was a very
lucky man who was a failed

1044
00:56:06,997 --> 00:56:10,968
producer who had one show that
did well for three years and

1045
00:56:11,068 --> 00:56:13,604
that's what they would
limit his legacy to

1046
00:56:13,704 --> 00:56:16,506
I sort of discounted him
in a way.

1047
00:56:16,607 --> 00:56:19,009
Everybody did.
They all did, most people

1048
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:24,615
get one shot, have one triumph.
Gene had one, it was elusive

1049
00:56:24,715 --> 00:56:26,083
and so when this one
came back again.

1050
00:56:26,183 --> 00:56:27,551
Hold tight.

1051
00:56:27,652 --> 00:56:30,254
Hold it, don't let it get
away from me.

1052
00:56:30,354 --> 00:56:33,791
Stewart:
 I've enormous respect for his

1053
00:56:33,891 --> 00:56:38,595
achievements for many of his
unique ideas and beliefs.

1054
00:56:40,264 --> 00:56:45,302
Berman:
 I think he really believed
 in this positive vision

1055
00:56:45,402 --> 00:56:47,471
of what man kind
was capable of.

1056
00:56:47,571 --> 00:56:50,074
And you subscribed
to that vision?

1057
00:56:50,174 --> 00:56:55,212
I subscribed to that idea
all throughout all the

1058
00:56:55,312 --> 00:56:57,715
different shows that we did
because I believed

1059
00:56:57,815 --> 00:57:00,084
that I owed that to Gene.

1060
00:57:00,184 --> 00:57:03,587
I think at his best
I don't think Gene wanted

1061
00:57:03,688 --> 00:57:09,994
the franchise to fossilize into
this, you know, there's
no way out,

1062
00:57:10,094 --> 00:57:13,063
you've just got to recycle
everything over and over again

1063
00:57:13,163 --> 00:57:17,334
it was too rich a franchise
there was too many possibilities

1064
00:57:27,444 --> 00:57:31,281
I should have done this
a long time ago

1065
00:57:31,381 --> 00:57:34,919
You were always welcome

1066
00:57:36,887 --> 00:57:42,960
So, 5 card stud, nothing wild
and the sky's the limit

1067
00:57:45,229 --> 00:57:49,199
Shatner:
The sky is the limit, in it's
seventh and final season,

1068
00:57:49,299 --> 00:57:54,839
five shows were nominated
for nine Emmys and the series
as a whole,

1069
00:57:54,939 --> 00:57:57,674
was the first syndicated
television series to be

1070
00:57:57,775 --> 00:58:01,712
nominated for outstanding
drama series.

1071
00:58:03,213 --> 00:58:06,383
To this day The Next Generation
is the only syndicated drama

1072
00:58:06,483 --> 00:58:09,987
series to be nominated
in this category.

1073
00:58:10,087 --> 00:58:13,523
Not so wacky doodle
after all.

1074
00:58:13,623 --> 00:58:16,126
( music playing )