1
00:00:42,474 --> 00:00:44,708
<i>Anti-nuclear
groups go to court to try to</i>

2
00:00:44,709 --> 00:00:46,478
<i>block Thursday's
scheduled lift-off</i>

3
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,648
<i>of the shuttle Atlantis  with its
payload of radioactive plutonium.</i>

4
00:00:50,649 --> 00:00:52,717
<i>The shuttle
and legal challenges.</i>

5
00:00:52,718 --> 00:00:54,386
<i>NASA lawyers must
go to court tomorrow</i>

6
00:00:54,387 --> 00:00:57,722
<i>to help the shuttle Atlantis
and its Galileo  spacecraft</i>

7
00:00:57,723 --> 00:00:58,957
<i>escape from a unique
environmental challenge.</i>

8
00:00:58,958 --> 00:01:00,824
<i>The mission could be
stalled on the launch pad.</i>

9
00:01:00,825 --> 00:01:03,394
<i>At the center of the
controversy is Galileo,</i>

10
00:01:03,395 --> 00:01:04,796
<i>a plutonium-powered
space probe</i>

11
00:01:04,797 --> 00:01:06,330
<i>scheduled to be launched
from the shuttle's payload.</i>

12
00:01:06,331 --> 00:01:09,534
<i>The argument's being made that
in the event of an accident,</i>

13
00:01:09,535 --> 00:01:12,403
<i>cancer-causing plutonium
particles might be spread</i>

14
00:01:12,404 --> 00:01:14,509
<i>over a wide area of Florida.</i>

15
00:01:16,509 --> 00:01:21,211
<i>JOHN McMAHON:  It was a Monday morning,
a few days before launching Galileo.</i>

16
00:01:21,212 --> 00:01:24,150
My management grabbed me
as soon as I came in.

17
00:01:25,617 --> 00:01:28,553
<i>And they said that there was a
worm that had been detected</i>

18
00:01:28,554 --> 00:01:29,994
<i>somewhere out on the network.</i>

19
00:01:31,657 --> 00:01:34,626
<i>A worm is
a self-replicating program.</i>

20
00:01:34,627 --> 00:01:39,330
<i>It actually breaks into a computer
and jumps from system to system.</i>

21
00:01:39,331 --> 00:01:42,534
<i>At the time, they still
were very uncommon.</i>

22
00:01:42,535 --> 00:01:43,901
We didn't know
what it would do.

23
00:01:43,902 --> 00:01:45,771
We knew it was malicious.

24
00:01:46,771 --> 00:01:48,339
<i>If the worm got into a machine,</i>

25
00:01:48,340 --> 00:01:51,910
<i>it would change the announcement
message and spelled out,</i>

26
00:01:51,911 --> 00:01:54,313
<i>in little lines
and little characters,</i>

27
00:01:55,313 --> 00:01:58,882
<i>W-A-N-K,</i>

28
00:01:58,883 --> 00:02:02,487
<i>WANK, Worms Against
Nuclear Killers.</i>

29
00:02:02,488 --> 00:02:05,590
<i>And below that, "You talk
of times of peace for all,</i>

30
00:02:05,591 --> 00:02:07,561
<i>"and then prepare for war."</i>

31
00:02:08,561 --> 00:02:10,428
Oh, my God,
what the hell is this?

32
00:02:10,429 --> 00:02:12,429
Most people didn't know
what the word "WANK" meant.

33
00:02:13,866 --> 00:02:15,934
<i>The worm made a panic.</i>

34
00:02:15,935 --> 00:02:19,269
<i>You would be logged into your
machine and you'd get a message,</i>

35
00:02:19,270 --> 00:02:22,240
<i>"Someone is watching you...
Vote anarchist!"</i>

36
00:02:22,241 --> 00:02:23,674
<i>And suddenly they'd see,</i>

37
00:02:23,675 --> 00:02:26,844
<i>"Deleted file-1, deleted
file-2, deleted file-3,"</i>

38
00:02:26,845 --> 00:02:29,580
<i>and just keep going
and going and going.</i>

39
00:02:29,581 --> 00:02:32,886
<i>And it would change the passwords,
so you couldn't get in to stop it.</i>

40
00:02:33,886 --> 00:02:36,421
It scared the hell out
of a lot of people.

41
00:02:36,422 --> 00:02:39,791
<i>They were afraid that WANK
would cause a launch failure,</i>

42
00:02:39,792 --> 00:02:42,927
<i>where this nuclear
battery was suddenly</i>

43
00:02:42,928 --> 00:02:45,463
flying away from
an exploding spacecraft.

44
00:02:45,464 --> 00:02:46,864
<i>All systems are go.</i>

45
00:02:46,865 --> 00:02:49,534
<i>Eleven, ten, nine...</i>

46
00:02:49,535 --> 00:02:50,435
<i>How in the name of
hell are we going to stop it?</i>

47
00:02:51,002 --> 00:02:53,471
And how far has
it gone already?

48
00:02:53,472 --> 00:02:55,240
<i>We have a go for
main engine start.</i>

49
00:02:55,241 --> 00:02:58,342
<i>Six, five, four,</i>

50
00:02:58,343 --> 00:03:01,613
<i>three, two, one.</i>

51
00:03:01,614 --> 00:03:04,382
<i>We have ignition
and lift-off of Atlantis,</i>

52
00:03:04,383 --> 00:03:07,456
<i>and the Galileo  spacecraft
bound for Jupiter!</i>

53
00:03:11,456 --> 00:03:13,458
<i>The shuttle
launched without incident.</i>

54
00:03:13,459 --> 00:03:15,525
<i>But the WANK worm
continued to spread,</i>

55
00:03:15,526 --> 00:03:20,498
<i>affecting over 300,000 computer
terminals around the world.</i>

56
00:03:20,499 --> 00:03:25,836
<i>Its purpose, as a warning, weapon, or
political prank, was never discovered.</i>

57
00:03:25,837 --> 00:03:29,774
<i>Investigators traced the origins
of the WANK worm to Australia.</i>

58
00:03:29,775 --> 00:03:32,442
<i>National police suspected
a small group of hackers</i>

59
00:03:32,443 --> 00:03:36,347
<i>in the city of Melbourne,
and then the trail went cold.</i>

60
00:03:36,348 --> 00:03:39,684
<i>But a key clue turned out
to be in the message itself.</i>

61
00:03:39,685 --> 00:03:43,588
<i>There was a lyric from the
Australian band, Midnight Oil,</i>

62
00:03:43,589 --> 00:03:44,923
<i>a favorite of the man</i>

63
00:03:44,924 --> 00:03:47,825
<i>who would become the country's
most infamous hacker.</i>

64
00:03:51,363 --> 00:03:52,985
Yeah.

65
00:04:13,985 --> 00:04:16,453
<i>There's never been
anything quite like it.</i>

66
00:04:16,454 --> 00:04:20,491
<i>A mountain of secrets dumped into
the public domain by a website...</i>

67
00:04:20,492 --> 00:04:22,994
<i>Julian Assange.
Is he a hero to freedom</i>

68
00:04:22,995 --> 00:04:25,063
<i>or is he a terrorist
who should be prosecuted?</i>

69
00:04:25,064 --> 00:04:26,765
<i>He's an active enemy combatant</i>

70
00:04:26,766 --> 00:04:29,534
<i>who's engaged in information warfare
against the United States...</i>

71
00:04:29,535 --> 00:04:31,175
<i>Was it not once
considered patriotic</i>

72
00:04:32,004 --> 00:04:35,940
<i>to stand up to our government
when it's wrong?</i>

73
00:04:45,584 --> 00:04:47,885
<i>Should the United States do
something to stop Mr. Assange?</i>

74
00:04:47,886 --> 00:04:49,987
<i>I think Assange should be
assassinated, actually...</i>

75
00:04:49,988 --> 00:04:51,422
<i>No, he's a hero...</i>

76
00:04:51,423 --> 00:04:53,790
<i>What he did was
extremely devastating...</i>

77
00:04:53,791 --> 00:04:56,361
<i>This guy's going
to strike again.</i>

78
00:04:56,362 --> 00:05:00,511
<i>Free Julian Assange!
Free Julian Assange!</i>

79
00:05:12,511 --> 00:05:13,615
What drives you?

80
00:05:16,615 --> 00:05:18,883
Well, I like being creative.

81
00:05:18,884 --> 00:05:21,552
I mean, I've been an inventor,

82
00:05:21,553 --> 00:05:23,857
designing systems and
processes for a long time.

83
00:05:24,857 --> 00:05:27,595
I also like defending victims.

84
00:05:29,595 --> 00:05:34,832
And I'm a combative person,
so I like crushing bastards.

85
00:05:34,833 --> 00:05:39,970
And so this sort of profession
combines all those three things.

86
00:05:39,971 --> 00:05:45,977
So it is personally
deeply satisfying to me.

87
00:05:45,978 --> 00:05:50,517
But is crushing bastards, in
its own right, a just cause?

88
00:05:52,517 --> 00:05:54,517
Depends on the bastard.

89
00:05:55,620 --> 00:05:59,157
I see the story entirely
as one man against the world.

90
00:05:59,158 --> 00:06:00,691
One man against the world.

91
00:06:00,692 --> 00:06:03,094
Julian is this very
radical visionary.

92
00:06:03,095 --> 00:06:05,015
Julian was onto something
really extraordinary.

93
00:06:05,029 --> 00:06:08,499
He's an extremely clever, brave,
dedicated, hard-working guy

94
00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:10,774
with a brilliant idea
that he managed to execute.

95
00:06:16,774 --> 00:06:19,643
<i>Julian Assange
was obsessed with secrets,</i>

96
00:06:19,644 --> 00:06:23,149
<i>keeping his own and unlocking those
of governments and corporations.</i>

97
00:06:25,149 --> 00:06:27,954
<i>The Internet is not
a good place for secrets.</i>

98
00:06:29,954 --> 00:06:32,024
<i>Cyberspace is like
a galaxy of passageways,</i>

99
00:06:33,024 --> 00:06:35,660
<i>constantly moving
streams of data.</i>

100
00:06:35,661 --> 00:06:39,564
<i>With a simple computer,
anyone can enter and explore.</i>

101
00:06:39,565 --> 00:06:43,034
<i>That's what Julian Assange
liked to do, explore.</i>

102
00:06:43,035 --> 00:06:46,804
<i>He liked to use trap doors to enter
where he wasn't supposed to go,</i>

103
00:06:46,805 --> 00:06:49,540
<i>to find secrets
and expose them.</i>

104
00:06:49,541 --> 00:06:53,143
<i>He built a machine for leaking
secrets and called it "WikiLeaks."</i>

105
00:06:53,144 --> 00:06:56,047
<i>The website boasted
an electronic drop box</i>

106
00:06:56,048 --> 00:06:58,516
<i>that could receive
secrets sent by people</i>

107
00:06:58,517 --> 00:07:01,152
<i>who didn't want to
reveal who they were.</i>

108
00:07:01,153 --> 00:07:03,688
<i>Once WikiLeaks had the secrets,</i>

109
00:07:03,689 --> 00:07:06,891
<i>it would publish them across
servers, domain names, and networks</i>

110
00:07:06,892 --> 00:07:10,795
<i>so numerous that the information
could never be taken down.</i>

111
00:07:14,166 --> 00:07:17,568
<i>So this is what you'll see if you go
to the front page of the website.</i>

112
00:07:17,569 --> 00:07:21,705
<i>This is WikiLeaks, we help
you get the truth out.</i>

113
00:07:21,706 --> 00:07:25,042
<i>We want to enable information
to go out to the public</i>

114
00:07:25,043 --> 00:07:28,044
<i>that has the greatest
chance of achieving</i>

115
00:07:28,045 --> 00:07:31,883
<i>positive political reform
in the world.</i>

116
00:07:31,884 --> 00:07:34,751
<i>To get things to the public
you need to protect sources</i>

117
00:07:34,752 --> 00:07:36,621
<i>who want to disclose,</i>

118
00:07:36,622 --> 00:07:41,937
<i>and you also need to protect your ability
to publish in the face of attack.</i>

119
00:07:51,937 --> 00:07:55,773
<i>His thinking is, how can
we destroy corruption?</i>

120
00:07:55,774 --> 00:07:58,011
<i>It's the whistle-blower.</i>

121
00:07:59,011 --> 00:08:03,981
Julian Assange is neither a right-wing
libertarian nor a standard leftist.

122
00:08:03,982 --> 00:08:06,783
I think he's
a humanitarian anarchist.

123
00:08:06,784 --> 00:08:09,586
A kind of John Lennon-like
revolutionary,

124
00:08:09,587 --> 00:08:11,321
dreaming of a better world.

125
00:08:11,322 --> 00:08:16,760
<i>If we are to produce a more civilized
society, a more just society,</i>

126
00:08:16,761 --> 00:08:19,797
<i>it has to be based
upon the truth...</i>

127
00:08:19,798 --> 00:08:21,898
<i>When I heard Julian speak,</i>

128
00:08:21,899 --> 00:08:25,570
I was struck by
his vaulting idealism

129
00:08:25,571 --> 00:08:27,412
and forthrightness
about what he believed in.

130
00:08:29,274 --> 00:08:32,944
Totally uncompromising
about freedom of speech.

131
00:08:32,945 --> 00:08:36,247
I agreed almost entirely
with everything he said,

132
00:08:36,248 --> 00:08:40,151
and I'd never experienced
that before.

133
00:08:40,152 --> 00:08:42,119
So I thought he was amazing.

134
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,855
<i>Every week
we achieve major victories</i>

135
00:08:45,856 --> 00:08:50,861
<i>in bringing the unjust to
account and helping the just.</i>

136
00:08:59,971 --> 00:09:02,306
<i>Before WikiLeaks
was front page news,</i>

137
00:09:02,307 --> 00:09:04,808
<i>there were some
smaller successes.</i>

138
00:09:04,809 --> 00:09:08,278
<i>The website published evidence
of a tax-evading Swiss bank,</i>

139
00:09:08,279 --> 00:09:11,148
<i>government corruption
and murder in Kenya,</i>

140
00:09:11,149 --> 00:09:14,352
<i>and a secret company report on
illegal toxic waste dumping.</i>

141
00:09:17,089 --> 00:09:20,624
<i>One early leak was from the
National Security Agency.</i>

142
00:09:20,625 --> 00:09:23,159
<i>Frantic text messages
from desperate workers</i>

143
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,769
<i>trying to save lives on 9/11.</i>

144
00:09:31,769 --> 00:09:35,806
<i>9/11 turned out to be a watershed
moment for the world of secrets,</i>

145
00:09:35,807 --> 00:09:38,783
<i>both for the leakers
and the secret keepers.</i>

146
00:09:44,783 --> 00:09:48,985
After 9/11 we were accused of not
being willing to share information

147
00:09:48,986 --> 00:09:50,988
rapidly and facilely enough,

148
00:09:50,989 --> 00:09:53,025
and we've pushed that
very far forward.

149
00:09:54,025 --> 00:09:57,094
<i>Michael Hayden
is an expert on secrets.</i>

150
00:09:57,095 --> 00:10:00,898
<i>He's been the director of the
National Security Agency and the CIA.</i>

151
00:10:00,899 --> 00:10:02,767
<i>In terms of our focus,</i>

152
00:10:02,768 --> 00:10:06,202
the default option, in a practical
sense, has been to sharing

153
00:10:06,203 --> 00:10:10,311
rather than caging information and
making it more difficult to flow.

154
00:10:13,311 --> 00:10:17,181
<i>In the years after 9/11, facing
enemies it didn't understand,</i>

155
00:10:17,182 --> 00:10:19,917
<i>the U.S. government started
sharing more information</i>

156
00:10:19,918 --> 00:10:21,752
<i>between different agencies.</i>

157
00:10:21,753 --> 00:10:27,258
<i>At the same time, the U.S. also started
to keep more secrets from its citizens.</i>

158
00:10:27,259 --> 00:10:29,994
<i>In data centers that sprang
up all over the country,</i>

159
00:10:29,995 --> 00:10:32,095
<i>the U.S. launched
a massive expansion</i>

160
00:10:32,096 --> 00:10:34,831
<i>of its operations
to gather secrets.</i>

161
00:10:34,832 --> 00:10:38,369
<i>The amount of classified documents per
year increased from eight million</i>

162
00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:39,936
<i>to 76 million.</i>

163
00:10:39,937 --> 00:10:43,441
<i>The number of people with access
to classified information</i>

164
00:10:43,442 --> 00:10:45,810
<i>soared to more
than four million.</i>

165
00:10:45,811 --> 00:10:48,812
<i>And the government began to
intercept phone calls and emails</i>

166
00:10:48,813 --> 00:10:50,333
<i>at a rate of 60,000 per second.</i>

167
00:10:52,216 --> 00:10:55,186
<i>Nobody knows how
much money is involved,</i>

168
00:10:55,187 --> 00:10:56,354
<i>it's a secret.</i>

169
00:10:56,355 --> 00:11:00,825
<i>Not even Congress
knows the entire budget.</i>

170
00:11:00,826 --> 00:11:05,428
The classification system can be a
very effective national security tool

171
00:11:05,429 --> 00:11:09,834
when it's used as intended,
when it's used with precision.

172
00:11:09,835 --> 00:11:11,368
<i>During the Bush Administration,</i>

173
00:11:11,369 --> 00:11:14,238
<i>Bill Leonard was
the classification czar,</i>

174
00:11:14,239 --> 00:11:18,109
<i>the man charged with overseeing
what information should be secret.</i>

175
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:21,311
The whole information environment
has radically changed.

176
00:11:21,312 --> 00:11:22,879
Just like we produce
more information

177
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,449
than we ever produced
in the history of mankind,

178
00:11:25,450 --> 00:11:29,320
we produce more secrets than we've ever
produced in the history of mankind,

179
00:11:29,321 --> 00:11:32,255
and yet we never
fundamentally reassessed

180
00:11:32,256 --> 00:11:34,495
<i>our ability to control secrets.</i>

181
00:11:36,495 --> 00:11:39,296
<i>In this environment
of expanding secrecy,</i>

182
00:11:39,297 --> 00:11:42,266
<i>Assange went fishing
for secrets to publish.</i>

183
00:11:42,267 --> 00:11:45,873
<i>To bait whistle-blowers, he published
a list of the most wanted leaks.</i>

184
00:11:47,873 --> 00:11:50,441
Those of us who have been
in the business a long time

185
00:11:50,442 --> 00:11:52,810
knew that this day would come,

186
00:11:52,811 --> 00:11:56,980
knew that because we'd removed all
the watertight doors on the ship,

187
00:11:56,981 --> 00:12:00,118
once it started taking on water,
it would really be in trouble.

188
00:13:01,613 --> 00:13:04,281
<i>In Iceland,
winter is never easy,</i>

189
00:13:04,282 --> 00:13:06,985
<i>but this year much
of the pain is manmade.</i>

190
00:13:08,452 --> 00:13:11,922
<i>Last October, all three of
Iceland's banks failed.</i>

191
00:13:11,923 --> 00:13:15,962
<i>Normally stoic and proper
Icelanders have started protesting.</i>

192
00:13:17,962 --> 00:13:22,266
<i>In July 2009, WikiLeaks
fueled a growing popular rage</i>

193
00:13:22,267 --> 00:13:25,502
<i>when it published a confidential
internal memo from Kaupthing,</i>

194
00:13:25,503 --> 00:13:28,538
<i>the largest failed
bank in the country.</i>

195
00:13:28,539 --> 00:13:31,941
<i>WikiLeaks had got hold of
the Kaupthing loan book,</i>

196
00:13:31,942 --> 00:13:34,912
<i>which showed what was going on in
a lot of those Icelandic banks.</i>

197
00:13:34,913 --> 00:13:38,315
They had credit ratings
which were completely at odds

198
00:13:38,316 --> 00:13:40,417
with their actual
credit worthiness.

199
00:13:40,418 --> 00:13:42,585
It was all insiders,

200
00:13:42,586 --> 00:13:45,623
they took out billions
of dollars out of this bank

201
00:13:45,624 --> 00:13:50,628
and bankrupted the thing shortly
before it went bankrupt anyways.

202
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:53,931
<i>A German IT technician,
Daniel Domscheit-Berg,</i>

203
00:13:53,932 --> 00:13:57,500
<i>became the second full-time
member of WikiLeaks.</i>

204
00:13:57,501 --> 00:14:02,505
<i>We met online first, and then we
met personally in December 2007</i>

205
00:14:02,506 --> 00:14:05,643
<i>at the Chaos Communication
Congress in Berlin.</i>

206
00:14:05,644 --> 00:14:09,647
<i>He was not the stereotypical
hacker you would expect,</i>

207
00:14:09,648 --> 00:14:10,715
looked completely differently,

208
00:14:10,716 --> 00:14:15,985
he was interested in
completely different topics.

209
00:14:15,986 --> 00:14:20,224
<i>For Daniel and Julian, the Kaupthing
leak was their biggest success to date.</i>

210
00:14:20,225 --> 00:14:23,393
<i>The loan book came
out and took the country by storm.</i>

211
00:14:23,394 --> 00:14:27,598
RÚV, the national broadcaster, was
going to do a big segment on it.

212
00:14:27,599 --> 00:14:30,201
<i>And they got slapped
with an injunction.</i>

213
00:14:39,510 --> 00:14:41,711
<i>It was the first time
in our history</i>

214
00:14:41,712 --> 00:14:45,516
that a gag order was placed on the
state TV not to produce that news

215
00:14:45,517 --> 00:14:48,051
just before they were
supposed to produce it.

216
00:14:48,052 --> 00:14:50,688
So instead of doing nothing they
decided to put the website up.

217
00:14:53,158 --> 00:14:54,558
<i>Up pops WikiLeaks.org</i>

218
00:14:55,025 --> 00:14:58,162
<i>with this Kaupthing
loan book front and center,</i>

219
00:14:58,163 --> 00:15:01,364
<i>and everybody goes online
and checks it out.</i>

220
00:15:01,365 --> 00:15:05,173
The guys at WikiLeaks definitely
get massive props for that.

221
00:15:08,173 --> 00:15:11,407
<i>Later that year, a group of young
cyber-activists from Iceland</i>

222
00:15:11,408 --> 00:15:14,545
<i>invited representatives
of the WikiLeaks organization</i>

223
00:15:14,546 --> 00:15:17,080
<i>to come speak at
a conference in Reykjavík.</i>

224
00:15:17,081 --> 00:15:19,249
<i>Iceland and WikiLeaks
really fit.</i>

225
00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:22,552
This is something we really need in
our society, the media failed us.

226
00:15:22,553 --> 00:15:24,157
<i>So I was excited to meet them.</i>

227
00:15:26,157 --> 00:15:28,459
Up until the day
before the conference,

228
00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:30,260
we didn't know
who was going to come.

229
00:15:30,261 --> 00:15:33,397
<i>It could be a massive organization
or it could be a tiny organization.</i>

230
00:15:33,398 --> 00:15:35,165
<i>Hello? Um...</i>

231
00:15:35,166 --> 00:15:37,201
<i>Does that work? Okay.</i>

232
00:15:37,202 --> 00:15:39,603
<i>In the beginning
we had no funding at all,</i>

233
00:15:39,604 --> 00:15:43,009
we were not set up with
manpower nor organizationally,

234
00:15:44,009 --> 00:15:46,243
so there was
a lot to improvise.

235
00:15:46,244 --> 00:15:48,644
<i>WikiLeaks, we haven't mentioned
that what we are doing right now</i>

236
00:15:48,645 --> 00:15:50,314
<i>is still a proof of concept.</i>

237
00:15:50,315 --> 00:15:53,519
<i>So in technical terms, we are in
a beta stage, so it's just...</i>

238
00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:56,321
<i>- We're not in a beta stage.
- Well...</i>

239
00:15:58,056 --> 00:16:01,226
<i>We're not in a beta stage as far as...
We're in a Gmail beta stage.</i>

240
00:16:03,028 --> 00:16:07,330
<i>So we're not in a beta stage in terms
of our ability to protect people.</i>

241
00:16:07,331 --> 00:16:09,199
<i>In terms of...</i>

242
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,467
<i>Um...</i>

243
00:16:12,404 --> 00:16:13,704
<i>You could let me
finish my sentence.</i>

244
00:16:13,705 --> 00:16:15,272
<i>Okay.</i>

245
00:16:15,273 --> 00:16:17,608
It was a really awkward
experience in some way

246
00:16:17,609 --> 00:16:21,545
because we were just
so famous over there.

247
00:16:21,546 --> 00:16:24,114
You work for WikiLeaks.

248
00:16:24,115 --> 00:16:26,115
WikiLeaks is now
very famous in Iceland

249
00:16:26,116 --> 00:16:29,787
because of the big
Kaupthing leak.

250
00:16:29,788 --> 00:16:33,757
We got this letter
from the Kaupthing lawyers,

251
00:16:33,758 --> 00:16:37,361
telling us that under
Icelandic banking secrecy law

252
00:16:37,362 --> 00:16:39,430
we deserved one year in prison.

253
00:16:39,431 --> 00:16:41,464
So we thought we'd
come to Iceland...

254
00:16:41,465 --> 00:16:42,665
And see for ourselves.

255
00:16:42,666 --> 00:16:44,502
...and see for ourselves.

256
00:16:57,214 --> 00:16:59,482
<i>Julian teamed up
with Birgitta Jónsdóttir,</i>

257
00:16:59,483 --> 00:17:01,218
<i>a poet turned politician,</i>

258
00:17:01,219 --> 00:17:05,721
<i>to hatch a plan to turn Iceland into
a haven for freedom of information.</i>

259
00:17:05,722 --> 00:17:09,593
<i>But Julian was also preoccupied
with a new source,</i>

260
00:17:09,594 --> 00:17:13,430
<i>one with access to classified
U.S. government materials,</i>

261
00:17:13,431 --> 00:17:14,792
<i>and a willingness to leak them.</i>

262
00:17:39,156 --> 00:17:43,528
<i>It was an onboard video of an Apache
helicopter gunship on patrol in Iraq.</i>

263
00:17:46,196 --> 00:17:49,601
<i>A half-mile above the ground, it was
invisible to the people down below.</i>

264
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,215
<i>Keep shooting.</i>

265
00:18:09,154 --> 00:18:10,323
<i>Keep shooting.</i>

266
00:18:15,292 --> 00:18:18,296
<i>Two of the men killed worked
for the Reuters news agency.</i>

267
00:18:19,730 --> 00:18:22,199
<i>What had looked
like a weapon from the sky,</i>

268
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,367
<i>turned out to be
the long lens of a camera.</i>

269
00:18:24,368 --> 00:18:25,269
<i>Bushmaster.</i>

270
00:18:29,907 --> 00:18:31,175
<i>This is Bushmaster-Seven.</i>

271
00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:34,810
<i>One-Eight.
Engage. Clear.</i>

272
00:18:34,811 --> 00:18:36,811
<i>Come on.</i>

273
00:18:38,682 --> 00:18:39,884
<i>Clear.</i>

274
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,252
<i>Clear.</i>

275
00:18:43,253 --> 00:18:44,455
<i>We're engaging...</i>

276
00:18:45,455 --> 00:18:46,557
<i>Oh, yeah, look at that.</i>

277
00:18:48,926 --> 00:18:50,928
<i>Inside the van
were two children,</i>

278
00:18:50,929 --> 00:18:53,230
<i>who were wounded in
the hail of cannon fire.</i>

279
00:18:55,532 --> 00:18:56,968
<i>That's right.</i>

280
00:19:13,651 --> 00:19:17,954
<i>In March 2010, Assange and a
team of Icelandic activists</i>

281
00:19:17,955 --> 00:19:20,289
<i>holed up in a rented
house in Reykjavík</i>

282
00:19:20,290 --> 00:19:22,431
<i>to edit and prepare
the video for publication.</i>

283
00:19:26,431 --> 00:19:28,798
We did most of our work here.

284
00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:31,536
This was the operational table.

285
00:19:37,342 --> 00:19:42,379
<i>It was chaotic and hectic and
all sorts of varyingly frayed nerves.</i>

286
00:19:42,380 --> 00:19:45,348
Eventually I went out and
bought a bunch of Post-its

287
00:19:45,349 --> 00:19:48,788
and kind of tried to figure out
what it was we needed to do.

288
00:19:50,788 --> 00:19:54,026
My horrific task was to go
through the entire movie

289
00:19:55,026 --> 00:19:57,794
and pull out the stills
to put on the website.

290
00:19:57,795 --> 00:20:00,998
<i>And at the same time I was
learning who these people were</i>

291
00:20:00,999 --> 00:20:04,538
<i>that I could see their flesh
being torn off their bodies.</i>

292
00:20:07,538 --> 00:20:09,338
<i>The Army
claimed it was engaged in</i>

293
00:20:09,339 --> 00:20:12,375
<i>"combat operations
against a hostile force."</i>

294
00:20:12,376 --> 00:20:14,944
<i>But it also began
a criminal investigation.</i>

295
00:20:14,945 --> 00:20:17,748
<i>It turned out
that the driver of the van</i>

296
00:20:17,749 --> 00:20:20,785
<i>had been a father taking
his children to school.</i>

297
00:20:30,795 --> 00:20:34,597
<i>The curtains were drawn.</i>

298
00:20:34,598 --> 00:20:38,371
<i>But I never had any sense that we
were being watched, not physically.</i>

299
00:20:40,371 --> 00:20:42,372
<i>But we joked a lot about it.</i>

300
00:20:42,373 --> 00:20:45,709
<i>We were becoming
super paranoid.</i>

301
00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:47,344
It wasn't really
cloak-and-dagger stuff,

302
00:20:47,345 --> 00:20:50,413
it was just yet
another cool project.

303
00:20:50,414 --> 00:20:53,517
Everybody thinks that we were sort
of huddled over the computers

304
00:20:53,518 --> 00:20:56,353
<i>and it was all very serious.</i>

305
00:20:56,354 --> 00:20:58,755
<i>We actually had
an incredible time.</i>

306
00:20:58,756 --> 00:21:01,924
<i>The second last night
we all went out</i>

307
00:21:01,925 --> 00:21:05,996
<i>and we were all wearing
the same silver snowsuits.</i>

308
00:21:05,997 --> 00:21:09,997
WikiLeaks!

309
00:21:15,006 --> 00:21:17,574
<i>It was
an incredibly intimate time,</i>

310
00:21:17,575 --> 00:21:19,608
<i>because we were all working closely,
we were working on something</i>

311
00:21:19,609 --> 00:21:23,646
<i>that we knew that could get us
all in very serious trouble.</i>

312
00:21:23,647 --> 00:21:26,755
<i>And we were all willing
to take that consequence.</i>

313
00:21:30,755 --> 00:21:32,956
<i>So my name is Julian Assange.</i>

314
00:21:32,957 --> 00:21:34,861
<i>I am the editor of WikiLeaks.</i>

315
00:21:36,861 --> 00:21:38,396
Julian, with an A.

316
00:21:39,396 --> 00:21:41,530
Assange.

317
00:21:41,531 --> 00:21:44,101
<i>What's clear about him is
he became a public figure</i>

318
00:21:44,102 --> 00:21:45,142
extraordinarily quickly.

319
00:21:46,136 --> 00:21:48,904
<i>It was really April 2010</i>

320
00:21:48,905 --> 00:21:51,475
<i>where he went from
relative obscurity</i>

321
00:21:51,476 --> 00:21:53,809
into an absolutely
central world figure.

322
00:21:53,810 --> 00:21:56,680
And he did it deliberately.
He knew what he was doing.

323
00:21:56,681 --> 00:22:02,118
<i>He decides to take on the
American state, in public.</i>

324
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,855
<i>The team posted the unedited
video on the WikiLeaks website.</i>

325
00:22:05,856 --> 00:22:07,656
<i>They also posted
a shorter version</i>

326
00:22:07,657 --> 00:22:09,960
<i>edited for maximum impact.</i>

327
00:22:09,961 --> 00:22:13,430
<i>Julian titled it
"Collateral Murder."</i>

328
00:22:13,431 --> 00:22:17,166
<i>And no surprise, it's getting
reaction in Washington.</i>

329
00:22:17,167 --> 00:22:21,505
<i>Our military will take
every precaution necessary</i>

330
00:22:21,506 --> 00:22:25,040
<i>to ensure the safety
and security of civilians.</i>

331
00:22:25,041 --> 00:22:29,813
<i>The behavior of the pilots is like
they are playing a computer game.</i>

332
00:22:29,814 --> 00:22:32,149
<i>Their desire
was simply to kill.</i>

333
00:22:32,150 --> 00:22:35,618
<i>The Pentagon says that it sees no
reason to investigate this any further.</i>

334
00:22:35,619 --> 00:22:38,087
Its own inquiry found that
the journalists' cameras

335
00:22:38,088 --> 00:22:40,156
were mistaken for weapons.

336
00:22:40,157 --> 00:22:43,125
But the rules of engagement
were followed.

337
00:22:43,126 --> 00:22:46,563
<i>If those killings were lawful
under the rules of engagement,</i>

338
00:22:46,564 --> 00:22:48,500
<i>then the rules of
engagement are wrong.</i>

339
00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:51,934
<i>Deeply wrong.</i>

340
00:22:51,935 --> 00:22:53,135
<i>You've got this scene.</i>

341
00:22:53,136 --> 00:22:56,139
<i>Some may be ethically
troubled by the scene.</i>

342
00:22:56,140 --> 00:22:57,841
Frankly, I'm not.

343
00:22:57,842 --> 00:22:59,922
But I can understand someone
who's troubled by that

344
00:23:00,010 --> 00:23:03,747
and someone who wants the
American people to know that,

345
00:23:03,748 --> 00:23:05,681
because the American
people need to know

346
00:23:05,682 --> 00:23:09,052
what it is their government is doing for them.
I actually share that view.

347
00:23:09,053 --> 00:23:11,688
When I was director of CIA, there
was some stuff we were doing

348
00:23:11,689 --> 00:23:14,559
I wanted all 300 million
Americans to know.

349
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:17,527
But I never figured out a way

350
00:23:17,528 --> 00:23:20,229
without informing a whole
bunch of other people

351
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:22,665
who didn't have a right
to that information,

352
00:23:22,666 --> 00:23:25,168
and who may actually
use that image or that fact

353
00:23:25,169 --> 00:23:28,575
or that data or that message
to harm my countrymen.

354
00:23:30,575 --> 00:23:32,942
<i>From a national
security point of view,</i>

355
00:23:32,943 --> 00:23:37,847
<i>there was absolutely no justification
for withholding that videotape.</i>

356
00:23:37,848 --> 00:23:41,250
Number one, gunship video
is like trading cards

357
00:23:41,251 --> 00:23:44,254
amongst soldiers in
Iraq and Afghanistan.

358
00:23:44,255 --> 00:23:46,891
It's freely exchanged
back and forth.

359
00:24:12,583 --> 00:24:14,817
<i>What's even
more disturbing is that</i>

360
00:24:14,818 --> 00:24:18,087
it was one in
a series of efforts

361
00:24:18,088 --> 00:24:22,295
to withhold images
of facts that were known.

362
00:24:24,295 --> 00:24:27,162
<i>Reuters knew
its employees had been killed.</i>

363
00:24:27,163 --> 00:24:30,001
<i>The news agency requested the
video, but the Army refused,</i>

364
00:24:31,001 --> 00:24:33,636
<i>claiming the video
was classified.</i>

365
00:24:33,637 --> 00:24:38,775
The fact that innocent people were
killed in that helicopter attack,

366
00:24:38,776 --> 00:24:41,978
that was a known fact
that was not classified.

367
00:24:41,979 --> 00:24:43,579
<i>A record of the incident</i>

368
00:24:43,580 --> 00:24:46,716
<i>and a word-for-word transcript
of the pilots' conversation</i>

369
00:24:46,717 --> 00:24:50,085
<i>had already been published in a
book called The Good Soldiers</i>

370
00:24:50,086 --> 00:24:52,822
<i>by a writer embedded
with the Army.</i>

371
00:24:52,823 --> 00:24:56,759
<i>The Army later confirmed that the
information was not classified.</i>

372
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,627
<i>Yet the Army would
prosecute the man</i>

373
00:24:58,628 --> 00:25:01,565
<i>who leaked the video
to WikiLeaks.</i>

374
00:25:01,566 --> 00:25:04,200
<i>What kind of games
was the Army playing?</i>

375
00:25:04,201 --> 00:25:07,103
<i>Why was a transcript less
secret than a moving image?</i>

376
00:25:07,104 --> 00:25:09,639
<i>We won't shoot anymore.</i>

377
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,943
<i>Clearly the government
recognizes the power of images.</i>

378
00:25:13,944 --> 00:25:18,681
But the ultimate power of image
is it helps people understand

379
00:25:18,682 --> 00:25:21,617
what it is this fact
is that we all know.

380
00:25:21,618 --> 00:25:24,820
<i>Flag-draped coffins
help us understand</i>

381
00:25:24,821 --> 00:25:28,258
<i>the consequences of sending
our children off to war.</i>

382
00:25:28,259 --> 00:25:32,662
<i>Pictures of detainee
abuse in Abu Ghraib</i>

383
00:25:32,663 --> 00:25:37,866
<i>help us understand exactly
what was taking place.</i>

384
00:25:37,867 --> 00:25:42,372
<i>Video of that unfortunate occurrence
where innocent people were killed,</i>

385
00:25:42,373 --> 00:25:48,721
<i>helps us understand that this is
an inevitable consequence of war.</i>

386
00:25:59,923 --> 00:26:03,661
<i>We can't discuss
our sourcing of the video.</i>

387
00:26:32,722 --> 00:26:36,226
<i>Adrian Lamo was known as
"the homeless hacker,"</i>

388
00:26:36,227 --> 00:26:38,761
<i>a couch-surfing
computer infiltrator</i>

389
00:26:38,762 --> 00:26:42,766
<i>who had been convicted of hacking
into The New York Times.</i>

390
00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:47,202
<i>In 2010, not long after the release
of the Collateral Murder video,</i>

391
00:26:47,203 --> 00:26:51,374
<i>Lamo used Twitter to urge his
followers to donate to WikiLeaks.</i>

392
00:26:51,375 --> 00:26:54,096
<i>Only one day later he was contacted
by someone with the screen name</i>

393
00:26:55,011 --> 00:26:56,317
<i>"bradass87."</i>

394
00:27:01,317 --> 00:27:05,055
<i>Frankly, I just didn't find what he had
to say all that interesting at first,</i>

395
00:27:05,056 --> 00:27:10,935
until he started making
references to spilling secrets.

396
00:27:51,935 --> 00:27:57,339
<i>At that point, I knew that
this wasn't some kind of game.</i>

397
00:27:57,340 --> 00:28:00,541
<i>It was for real and that I was going to
have to make some very hard choices.</i>

398
00:28:02,313 --> 00:28:07,750
<i>In  Star Trek, every
prospective commanding officer</i>

399
00:28:07,751 --> 00:28:12,855
is expected to pass a test
called the "Kobayashi Maru."

400
00:28:12,856 --> 00:28:14,824
<i>Starship Enterprise
on training mission</i>

401
00:28:14,825 --> 00:28:16,226
<i>to Gamma Hydra.</i>

402
00:28:16,227 --> 00:28:18,862
<i>Alert. Klingon torpedoes activated.
Alert.</i>

403
00:28:18,863 --> 00:28:20,263
Evasive action!

404
00:28:22,967 --> 00:28:23,867
Ah!

405
00:28:28,204 --> 00:28:30,172
<i>The test cannot be passed.</i>

406
00:28:30,173 --> 00:28:34,376
It is there to see how they
deal with a no-win situation.

407
00:28:34,377 --> 00:28:37,180
A no-win situation's a possibility
every commander may face.

408
00:28:37,181 --> 00:28:38,847
Has that never occurred to you?

409
00:28:38,848 --> 00:28:41,518
No, sir, it has not.

410
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:46,256
<i>In this case,
it was a no-win situation,</i>

411
00:28:46,257 --> 00:28:51,393
deciding what you're going to
do when no matter what you do,

412
00:28:51,394 --> 00:28:55,331
you're going to screw
somebody over.

413
00:28:55,332 --> 00:28:59,067
<i>Unsure what to do, Adrian
contacted Tim Webster,</i>

414
00:28:59,068 --> 00:29:02,337
<i>a friend and former Army
counterintelligence agent.</i>

415
00:29:02,338 --> 00:29:03,940
<i>Adrian called me and said,</i>

416
00:29:03,941 --> 00:29:06,241
<i>"Hey, Tim, what would you do
if somebody had approached you</i>

417
00:29:06,242 --> 00:29:08,478
<i>"and said, 'Hey,
I'm leaking secrets.'"</i>

418
00:29:08,479 --> 00:29:10,113
I thought it was
a pretty stupid question,

419
00:29:10,114 --> 00:29:15,050
because of course Adrian knows exactly
what I would have done in that situation.

420
00:29:15,051 --> 00:29:16,219
What would you have done?

421
00:29:16,220 --> 00:29:19,055
Well, of course,
turned them in.

422
00:29:19,056 --> 00:29:21,656
There's no... There's nothing else
you can do in that situation.

423
00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:27,197
<i>But Adrian was on the
fence about it ethically.</i>

424
00:29:27,198 --> 00:29:30,533
<i>On one hand, here was this kid leaking
all this classified information,</i>

425
00:29:30,534 --> 00:29:33,202
<i>could potentially cost lives.</i>

426
00:29:33,203 --> 00:29:36,940
On the other hand, here was this
kid who had reached out to Adrian

427
00:29:36,941 --> 00:29:40,410
in confidence and trusted him.

428
00:29:40,411 --> 00:29:43,215
And Adrian took
that pretty seriously.

429
00:29:45,215 --> 00:29:47,383
<i>He indicated he didn't know
who this person was,</i>

430
00:29:47,384 --> 00:29:49,285
<i>they were just a screen name.</i>

431
00:29:49,286 --> 00:29:51,447
<i>So, very quickly, of course,
the first thing that</i>

432
00:29:52,021 --> 00:29:54,539
<i>anybody would be interested
in is, who is this guy?</i>

433
00:31:49,539 --> 00:31:53,508
<i>I first met Bradley Manning
at a New Year's Eve party.</i>

434
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:57,079
<i>It was a 1930s theme party.</i>

435
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,382
<i>I was the Prince of Wales.</i>

436
00:31:59,383 --> 00:32:03,185
And Brad showed up
without any kind of

437
00:32:03,186 --> 00:32:06,722
costume or persona.

438
00:32:06,723 --> 00:32:09,726
I looked at him
and he was small

439
00:32:09,727 --> 00:32:14,162
and had this kind of ingénue
expression on his face.

440
00:32:14,163 --> 00:32:17,740
<i>This bright blond hair. And
so I said, "Oh, Jean Harlow."</i>

441
00:32:22,740 --> 00:32:25,009
<i>Wrote that on a name tag,
slapped it on his chest,</i>

442
00:32:26,009 --> 00:32:28,009
<i>then we went on with
the rest of the evening.</i>

443
00:32:31,015 --> 00:32:32,582
<i>When I met him at the party,</i>

444
00:32:32,583 --> 00:32:36,251
he made no mention to me
that he was in the Army.

445
00:32:36,252 --> 00:32:37,721
This came as a surprise to me.

446
00:32:44,494 --> 00:32:46,528
<i>To get
government money for college,</i>

447
00:32:46,529 --> 00:32:48,765
<i>Bradley Manning
enlisted in the Army.</i>

448
00:32:48,766 --> 00:32:52,101
<i>In 2007, Manning
began basic training.</i>

449
00:32:52,102 --> 00:32:55,037
<i>He was 19 years old.</i>

450
00:32:55,038 --> 00:32:58,508
<i>Just weeks after he started, he
was sent to a discharge unit</i>

451
00:32:58,509 --> 00:33:01,477
<i>to determine if he
should stay in the Army.</i>

452
00:33:01,478 --> 00:33:06,716
My locker was next to his
and that's when I met him.

453
00:33:06,717 --> 00:33:10,620
<i>Nobody puts their sister's picture
with him posing next to his sister.</i>

454
00:33:10,621 --> 00:33:14,723
It was kind of weird,
but... Oh, well.

455
00:33:14,724 --> 00:33:19,065
But we knew right away he was gay.
It was so obvious. But, so...

456
00:33:21,065 --> 00:33:24,133
Not that I have
a problem with it.

457
00:33:24,134 --> 00:33:27,236
<i>He was small, a little bit
effeminate and that made him</i>

458
00:33:27,237 --> 00:33:31,306
public enemy number one for drill
sergeants to beat the macho into him.

459
00:33:31,307 --> 00:33:34,410
<i>We're talking professional
Army, 30-40-year-old people</i>

460
00:33:34,411 --> 00:33:38,081
<i>that would pick on him
just to torment him.</i>

461
00:33:38,082 --> 00:33:40,383
<i>And what happened?
Did he get discharged?</i>

462
00:33:40,384 --> 00:33:44,252
No, the funny thing is, he was the
least Army material of anybody there.

463
00:33:44,253 --> 00:33:46,724
And they all got
discharged and he didn't.

464
00:33:48,724 --> 00:33:50,493
<i>Instead of discharging Manning,</i>

465
00:33:50,494 --> 00:33:54,363
<i>the Army decided to make him
an intelligence analyst.</i>

466
00:33:54,364 --> 00:33:55,131
<i>There's a lot of components</i>

467
00:33:55,132 --> 00:33:56,399
<i>that go with intel analyst.</i>

468
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,502
<i>I'm in charge of the security,
document security,</i>

469
00:34:00,503 --> 00:34:03,339
<i>physical security, personal
security, like people's clearances.</i>

470
00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:05,207
Does it make me feel like
James Bond a little bit?

471
00:34:05,208 --> 00:34:06,308
Yeah, to some degree.

472
00:34:06,309 --> 00:34:08,810
What would I like the public
to know about the Army?

473
00:34:08,811 --> 00:34:10,550
<i>We love what we do.</i>

474
00:34:13,550 --> 00:34:15,651
<i>He was definitely what society</i>

475
00:34:15,652 --> 00:34:18,855
<i>would label as a computer nerd.</i>

476
00:34:18,856 --> 00:34:23,225
He was constantly up all night
building specific computer programs.

477
00:34:23,226 --> 00:34:25,727
So he was unusually
adept at computers?

478
00:34:25,728 --> 00:34:30,500
He's probably the first person
in the military that I had met

479
00:34:30,501 --> 00:34:37,473
that is as talented as
he was with computers.

480
00:34:37,474 --> 00:34:41,544
<i>But I had to pull him aside several
times for his lack of sleep.</i>

481
00:34:41,545 --> 00:34:45,647
<i>He was desperately
addicted to soda.</i>

482
00:34:45,648 --> 00:34:49,686
<i>He drank approximately a liter
to two liters every night.</i>

483
00:34:50,686 --> 00:34:54,358
So he literally did
not sleep, ever.

484
00:34:56,492 --> 00:34:58,794
<i>One time he was
late for a formation</i>

485
00:34:58,795 --> 00:35:03,466
and he had a very public
display, physically.

486
00:35:03,467 --> 00:35:05,801
<i>He was jumping up and down,
flailing his arms,</i>

487
00:35:05,802 --> 00:35:08,203
<i>screaming at the top
of his lungs.</i>

488
00:35:08,204 --> 00:35:11,274
<i>And to me, I had never
seen a soldier do that before.</i>

489
00:35:11,275 --> 00:35:13,276
<i>It had to be something else.</i>

490
00:35:13,277 --> 00:35:14,709
A seizure or
something like that

491
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:18,915
because it was very
radical body movement.

492
00:35:18,916 --> 00:35:22,185
<i>But it wasn't something else.
He didn't like messing up.</i>

493
00:35:22,186 --> 00:35:23,747
<i>He had to have
everything perfect.</i>

494
00:35:25,688 --> 00:35:28,458
I actually recommended three
times that he not deploy.

495
00:35:32,795 --> 00:35:35,198
<i>Hi, you've reached Brad Manning
at my deployment phone number.</i>

496
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:37,733
<i>Please leave a message or call
me back later. Thank you.</i>

497
00:35:42,940 --> 00:35:46,576
<i>In October 2009, Bradley
Manning was sent to Iraq,</i>

498
00:35:46,577 --> 00:35:50,447
<i>posted at Forward Operating Base
Hammer, just outside of Baghdad.</i>

499
00:36:00,690 --> 00:36:06,562
<i>We were the furthest FOB east that you
could go around the Baghdad area.</i>

500
00:36:06,563 --> 00:36:09,765
It was definitely the best,
most uneventful place

501
00:36:09,766 --> 00:36:11,166
you could have
been deployed to.

502
00:36:11,768 --> 00:36:14,337
<i>We never had any enemy fire.</i>

503
00:36:14,338 --> 00:36:17,406
<i>We could walk around
without battle gear.</i>

504
00:36:17,407 --> 00:36:21,710
<i>We had a full gym. There was pool tables.
There was a basketball court.</i>

505
00:36:21,711 --> 00:36:23,511
<i>We had a little movie theater.</i>

506
00:36:23,512 --> 00:36:25,982
<i>We had a Pizza Hut,
a Burger King.</i>

507
00:36:25,983 --> 00:36:29,884
<i>A place to get your hair cut.
A place to get a massage.</i>

508
00:36:29,885 --> 00:36:32,321
<i>We had air-conditioned
living quarters.</i>

509
00:36:32,322 --> 00:36:35,857
<i>You could actually get cable
and Internet in your room.</i>

510
00:36:35,858 --> 00:36:38,996
It was literally just
a home away from home.

511
00:37:43,327 --> 00:37:46,328
When you receive intel in,
it's extremely raw.

512
00:37:46,329 --> 00:37:48,497
A lot of the times
it's even in Iraqi,

513
00:37:48,498 --> 00:37:51,533
<i>so we have to actually get it
translated and build a product</i>

514
00:37:51,534 --> 00:37:55,937
<i>so that the commander can
actually make military decisions.</i>

515
00:37:55,938 --> 00:37:59,475
<i>But much of the information available
to Manning's intelligence unit</i>

516
00:37:59,476 --> 00:38:02,477
<i>had nothing to do with
day-to-day combat operations.</i>

517
00:38:02,478 --> 00:38:05,580
<i>All of the analysts had access
to central computer networks</i>

518
00:38:05,581 --> 00:38:08,517
<i>for the Armed Forces
and the State Department.</i>

519
00:38:08,518 --> 00:38:11,021
<i>With a few key strokes, a
skilled user could gain access</i>

520
00:38:12,021 --> 00:38:14,025
<i>to vast streams of
classified emails, memos</i>

521
00:38:15,025 --> 00:38:16,665
<i>and reports from
around the world.</i>

522
00:38:19,096 --> 00:38:22,832
Why was it that Private Manning had
access to all that information?

523
00:38:22,833 --> 00:38:26,768
9/11. Very simple.

524
00:38:26,769 --> 00:38:30,772
The mindset changed after 9/11 from
a need-to-know to a need-to-share.

525
00:38:30,773 --> 00:38:34,576
And the database
that he had access to

526
00:38:34,577 --> 00:38:38,647
was a representation of the need
for one entity of government

527
00:38:38,648 --> 00:38:42,051
to share broadly information
about its activities

528
00:38:42,052 --> 00:38:43,518
with another agency
of government.

529
00:38:43,519 --> 00:38:45,123
How many people had access?

530
00:38:46,123 --> 00:38:47,793
It's a hard question to answer.

531
00:38:50,793 --> 00:38:52,928
<i>Manning was regarded
as one of the smartest</i>

532
00:38:52,929 --> 00:38:54,730
<i>intelligence analysts
in the unit.</i>

533
00:38:54,731 --> 00:38:56,399
<i>But more than others,</i>

534
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,200
<i>he became increasingly distressed
by the reports he was seeing.</i>

535
00:39:54,590 --> 00:39:57,993
<i>He back-talked a lot. He
constantly wanted to debate.</i>

536
00:39:57,994 --> 00:40:00,314
He wanted to be the person
that disagreed with everybody.

537
00:40:03,199 --> 00:40:05,567
<i>We had a separate
little conference room.</i>

538
00:40:05,568 --> 00:40:08,671
<i>It had a doorway but it didn't
have a door that you could close.</i>

539
00:40:08,672 --> 00:40:12,621
He'd go in there
and just scream.

540
00:41:05,929 --> 00:41:08,296
<i>I was trying to chase him after
the Collateral Murder video,</i>

541
00:41:08,297 --> 00:41:10,933
<i>but he's a pretty evasive guy.</i>

542
00:41:10,934 --> 00:41:15,671
<i>He doesn't have a home, doesn't have
an office, so it was no easy task.</i>

543
00:41:15,672 --> 00:41:19,542
I'd been chasing him for weeks and
had one phone contact with him.

544
00:41:19,543 --> 00:41:22,063
But I heard he was speaking in
Norway, so I jumped on a plane.

545
00:41:29,853 --> 00:41:32,087
<i>Turned up in Oslo and sort of</i>

546
00:41:32,088 --> 00:41:35,925
shadowed him for a few days
until things started to click.

547
00:42:04,253 --> 00:42:06,891
Congratulations. Thank you.
Very, great chat, great speech.

548
00:42:08,891 --> 00:42:11,893
At that time, he had an underground
following, of which I was aware.

549
00:42:11,894 --> 00:42:14,263
He's Australian,
he's from Melbourne.

550
00:42:14,264 --> 00:42:16,702
<i>But he had no
public profile really.</i>

551
00:42:36,251 --> 00:42:37,852
Well, it was two motivations.

552
00:42:37,853 --> 00:42:41,390
One was just
intellectual exploration,

553
00:42:41,391 --> 00:42:44,993
and the challenge to do this.

554
00:42:44,994 --> 00:42:49,101
So if you're a teenager at this
time in a suburb of Melbourne,

555
00:42:52,101 --> 00:42:56,738
and this was before there was
public access to the Internet,

556
00:42:56,739 --> 00:42:59,010
this was an incredibly
intellectually liberating thing

557
00:43:00,010 --> 00:43:03,382
to go out and explore
the world with your mind.

558
00:43:06,382 --> 00:43:07,282
G'day, mate!

559
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:11,819
No, a hacker's not someone
that kills their victim,

560
00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:14,689
dismembers them, and cuts
them into small pieces.

561
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:16,325
Hackers do far more
damage than that.

562
00:43:16,326 --> 00:43:20,261
Hackers, the mystery
operators of the Internet.

563
00:43:20,262 --> 00:43:22,665
In the eyes of the law,
they're criminal.

564
00:43:22,666 --> 00:43:24,399
But who are they?

565
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,169
It was a really interesting period
in Melbourne in the early '90s.

566
00:43:27,170 --> 00:43:29,104
There was a few places on earth

567
00:43:29,105 --> 00:43:32,241
that really clicked into
the Internet, pre-Internet.

568
00:43:32,242 --> 00:43:34,343
<i>There was also a sense
of rebelliousness,</i>

569
00:43:34,344 --> 00:43:36,912
<i>sort of an alternative political
culture in Melbourne.</i>

570
00:43:36,913 --> 00:43:38,346
All those things converged.

571
00:43:38,347 --> 00:43:41,149
And Julian was absolutely
the core part of...

572
00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:43,685
It was almost the cliché,
the teen hacker.

573
00:43:43,686 --> 00:43:45,021
Seventy-two million
people dead?

574
00:43:46,021 --> 00:43:48,391
Is this a game

575
00:43:49,391 --> 00:43:51,927
or is it real?

576
00:43:53,329 --> 00:43:54,462
Oh, wow.

577
00:43:54,463 --> 00:43:57,299
<i>Their struggle
was against the state.</i>

578
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:01,770
<i>And they thought that triumph
of intelligent individuals</i>

579
00:44:01,771 --> 00:44:05,107
over the possibility
of state surveillance,

580
00:44:05,108 --> 00:44:07,743
that's the heart of
what they were doing.

581
00:44:07,744 --> 00:44:09,812
<i>And Julian Assange, who at
that point was a young hacker,</i>

582
00:44:09,813 --> 00:44:10,713
<i>got into that world.</i>

583
00:44:11,014 --> 00:44:12,448
We're going to show 'em, baby.

584
00:44:12,449 --> 00:44:14,485
<i>And he became a central figure.</i>

585
00:44:16,485 --> 00:44:19,288
<i>The group was called the
International Subversives.</i>

586
00:44:19,289 --> 00:44:21,290
<i>Among them was Julian Assange,</i>

587
00:44:21,291 --> 00:44:23,926
<i>known by the online
name of Mendax,</i>

588
00:44:23,927 --> 00:44:28,230
<i>short for a Latin phrase
meaning "noble liar."</i>

589
00:44:28,231 --> 00:44:32,134
<i>Hackers in Melbourne were also
suspects in the WANK worm attack,</i>

590
00:44:32,135 --> 00:44:33,936
<i>though their involvement
was never proven.</i>

591
00:44:35,070 --> 00:44:36,939
<i>Two years after the WANK worm,</i>

592
00:44:36,940 --> 00:44:40,109
<i>Assange was implicated
in another hack.</i>

593
00:44:40,110 --> 00:44:44,446
<i>Julian Assange allegedly accessed
computer systems around the world</i>

594
00:44:44,447 --> 00:44:47,281
<i>through weak links
in the Internet system,</i>

595
00:44:47,282 --> 00:44:50,151
<i>meaning, "The whole computer
opened up to him</i>

596
00:44:50,152 --> 00:44:53,288
<i>"and he could walk around
like God Almighty."</i>

597
00:44:53,289 --> 00:44:57,192
Hackers have this belief that
we are getting a police state,

598
00:44:57,193 --> 00:45:00,863
that information is being hidden
from the broad community...

599
00:45:00,864 --> 00:45:03,799
<i>Ken Day was an Australian
expert on hackers</i>

600
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,368
<i>and the first person to
investigate Julian Assange</i>

601
00:45:06,369 --> 00:45:09,840
<i>as part of an undercover sting
called Operation Weather.</i>

602
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,508
<i>It was a very difficult case</i>

603
00:45:12,509 --> 00:45:14,509
<i>because it was only
the second time we'd done</i>

604
00:45:14,510 --> 00:45:18,081
an investigation in this particular
style, so we were still learning.

605
00:45:19,815 --> 00:45:24,520
<i>What we did was capture the sound
going across the telephone line,</i>

606
00:45:24,521 --> 00:45:29,056
<i>so we could see what was typed
and the signal coming back.</i>

607
00:45:29,057 --> 00:45:32,093
<i>The hackers had broken into the U.S.
Air Force, the Navy,</i>

608
00:45:32,094 --> 00:45:33,763
<i>and the U.S. defense network</i>

609
00:45:33,764 --> 00:45:37,332
<i>that had the power to block entire
countries from the Internet.</i>

610
00:45:37,333 --> 00:45:41,435
We had a back door in U.S. military
security coordination center.

611
00:45:41,436 --> 00:45:45,140
This is the peak security...

612
00:45:45,141 --> 00:45:49,511
It's for controlling the security of
MILNET, the U.S. military Internet.

613
00:45:49,512 --> 00:45:53,415
<i>We had total control
over this for two years.</i>

614
00:45:53,416 --> 00:45:57,151
<i>The Internet was a new frontier for
people to go out and express themselves</i>

615
00:45:57,152 --> 00:45:59,921
that "I am there, I am the
first, I am the all-powerful."

616
00:45:59,922 --> 00:46:03,859
This is the common theme
with people that are hackers.

617
00:46:03,860 --> 00:46:06,333
<i>It was all ego-driven,
"I am the best."</i>

618
00:46:11,333 --> 00:46:15,069
<i>Julian was charged with 29
counts of penetrating, altering,</i>

619
00:46:15,070 --> 00:46:17,538
<i>and destroying government data.</i>

620
00:46:17,539 --> 00:46:19,908
<i>The defense asked
the court to be lenient</i>

621
00:46:19,909 --> 00:46:22,243
<i>because Assange had
lived a difficult childhood,</i>

622
00:46:22,244 --> 00:46:24,379
<i>continually moving
from city to city</i>

623
00:46:24,380 --> 00:46:27,049
<i>with no lasting relationships.</i>

624
00:46:27,050 --> 00:46:30,088
His only constant connection with
the outside world was the Internet.

625
00:46:32,088 --> 00:46:34,555
<i>After a five year
investigation and trial,</i>

626
00:46:34,556 --> 00:46:38,125
<i>Julian pled guilty
to 24 hacking offenses.</i>

627
00:46:38,126 --> 00:46:40,126
<i>He was sentenced
to three years of probation.</i>

628
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:43,431
<i>He believes that what he
was doing was not wrong,</i>

629
00:46:43,432 --> 00:46:46,535
<i>and probably rues the day
that he pled guilty.</i>

630
00:46:46,536 --> 00:46:49,370
<i>Julian does not
like being judged.</i>

631
00:46:49,371 --> 00:46:53,207
His rationalization is, "Yeah, I've
been convicted, but it was unjust.

632
00:46:53,208 --> 00:46:55,509
"It's unfair. I'm a martyr."

633
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:58,046
<i>He didn't accept it.</i>

634
00:46:58,047 --> 00:47:01,082
<i>Julian always had
quite a rigid political view.</i>

635
00:47:01,083 --> 00:47:05,953
He's always believed that there's these
secrets that need to be discovered.

636
00:47:05,954 --> 00:47:10,158
<i>At 17, 18, Julian was looking at stuff
that he couldn't quite understand.</i>

637
00:47:10,159 --> 00:47:13,060
<i>It's all in acronyms, it's descriptions
of movements here and there,</i>

638
00:47:13,061 --> 00:47:14,428
<i>of weapons or of troops.</i>

639
00:47:14,429 --> 00:47:17,098
<i>He wasn't ready to
do anything with it.</i>

640
00:47:17,099 --> 00:47:20,102
Indeed, he waited
20 years to see it again.

641
00:47:20,103 --> 00:47:22,404
And when he saw it again,

642
00:47:22,405 --> 00:47:23,925
he knew what to do
with it this time.

643
00:47:25,474 --> 00:47:28,310
<i>Months before he received
the helicopter video,</i>

644
00:47:28,311 --> 00:47:31,980
<i>Assange was trolling through hacker
conferences, looking for leaks.</i>

645
00:47:31,981 --> 00:47:34,049
<i>Why am I talking
to you guys at all?</i>

646
00:47:34,050 --> 00:47:35,616
<i>Um... Well,</i>

647
00:47:35,617 --> 00:47:40,288
<i>you have a "capture the
flag" contest here.</i>

648
00:47:40,289 --> 00:47:42,457
<i>We have our own list of flags,</i>

649
00:47:42,458 --> 00:47:44,993
<i>and we want you
to capture them.</i>

650
00:47:44,994 --> 00:47:49,297
<i>And so if you Google for
"WikiLeaks Most Wanted 2009,"</i>

651
00:47:49,298 --> 00:47:52,968
<i>you'll see a list of documents.</i>

652
00:47:52,969 --> 00:47:57,305
<i>If you are in a position or you
know someone who's in a position</i>

653
00:47:57,306 --> 00:48:01,375
<i>to get this material, and get it,
give it to us, no questions asked,</i>

654
00:48:01,376 --> 00:48:03,246
<i>you will help change history.</i>

655
00:48:05,547 --> 00:48:07,649
<i>One month
into Manning's deployment,</i>

656
00:48:07,650 --> 00:48:10,352
<i>WikiLeaks published
the 9/11 pager messages.</i>

657
00:48:10,353 --> 00:48:11,487
<i>Manning took notice.</i>

658
00:48:19,228 --> 00:48:20,895
<i>Only days later,</i>

659
00:48:20,896 --> 00:48:25,167
<i>he saved Julian Assange's contact
information to his computer.</i>

660
00:48:25,168 --> 00:48:28,736
<i>Then taking a cue from the
WikiLeaks Most Wanted List,</i>

661
00:48:28,737 --> 00:48:32,473
<i>Manning began searching for CIA
detainee interrogation videos</i>

662
00:48:32,474 --> 00:48:35,181
<i>on the classified networks
that were cleared for his use.</i>

663
00:48:38,181 --> 00:48:40,582
<i>Like other potential
whistle-blowers,</i>

664
00:48:40,583 --> 00:48:43,218
<i>he began to wonder if he had
access to secret information</i>

665
00:48:43,219 --> 00:48:45,520
<i>the public should know.</i>

666
00:48:45,521 --> 00:48:47,421
<i>In the course of his work</i>

667
00:48:47,422 --> 00:48:50,192
<i>he had already downloaded
thousands of military reports</i>

668
00:48:50,193 --> 00:48:53,095
<i>from Iraq and Afghanistan.</i>

669
00:48:53,096 --> 00:48:54,897
<i>It was there that
he captured his flags.</i>

670
00:48:55,731 --> 00:48:57,340
<i>A lot of flags.</i>

671
00:49:33,135 --> 00:49:35,102
<i>While Manning was
playing with a new identity,</i>

672
00:49:35,103 --> 00:49:38,540
<i>he was also imagining
a new role for himself.</i>

673
00:49:38,541 --> 00:49:40,709
<i>He visited his
boyfriend in Boston</i>

674
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:43,412
<i>and went to a party at
a college hackerspace,</i>

675
00:49:43,413 --> 00:49:46,814
<i>where he was caught on camera.</i>

676
00:49:46,815 --> 00:49:49,651
<i>During this period,
maybe even at this moment,</i>

677
00:49:49,652 --> 00:49:53,788
<i>Manning had in his possession
nearly 500,000 classified documents</i>

678
00:49:53,789 --> 00:49:57,058
<i>about the wars in Iraq
and Afghanistan.</i>

679
00:49:57,059 --> 00:49:59,227
<i>While on leave, he contacted
 The Washington Post</i>

680
00:49:59,228 --> 00:50:01,096
<i>and The New York Times.</i>

681
00:50:01,097 --> 00:50:02,763
<i>When neither showed interest</i>

682
00:50:02,764 --> 00:50:05,084
<i>Manning sent the so-called
"war logs" to WikiLeaks.</i>

683
00:50:34,362 --> 00:50:36,263
<i>Good morning. Him?</i>

684
00:50:36,264 --> 00:50:38,600
<i>How would an Army private
allegedly gain access</i>

685
00:50:38,601 --> 00:50:40,201
<i>to top secret information?</i>

686
00:50:40,202 --> 00:50:42,437
The Army has detained
a U.S. soldier

687
00:50:42,438 --> 00:50:45,506
in connection with the leak
of this classified video.

688
00:50:45,507 --> 00:50:50,212
<i>The prime suspect is 22-year-old Army
Private First Class Bradley Manning.</i>

689
00:50:50,213 --> 00:50:53,381
<i>For allegedly leaking this
classified gun camera video</i>

690
00:50:53,382 --> 00:50:55,850
<i>of an Apache helicopter
attacking civilians.</i>

691
00:50:55,851 --> 00:50:58,153
<i>Really in the first few
days after we heard</i>

692
00:50:58,154 --> 00:51:00,522
<i>about this problem
with Private Manning,</i>

693
00:51:00,523 --> 00:51:03,692
<i>it felt like the worst
possible scenario.</i>

694
00:51:03,693 --> 00:51:07,395
<i>At that time not really
understanding what it means for us,</i>

695
00:51:07,396 --> 00:51:10,165
and what the hell
was actually going on.

696
00:51:10,166 --> 00:51:11,767
<i>- Private First Class
- Bradley Manning,</i>

697
00:51:11,768 --> 00:51:15,403
<i>he found a former computer
hacker in Sacramento, California</i>

698
00:51:15,404 --> 00:51:18,473
<i>and that former computer hacker
was growing increasingly alarmed,</i>

699
00:51:18,474 --> 00:51:21,676
<i>eventually turning him in.</i>

700
00:51:21,677 --> 00:51:27,314
<i>He needed a friend, and I wish that
I could have been that friend.</i>

701
00:51:27,315 --> 00:51:32,319
There was a responsibility
to the needs of the many

702
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,357
rather than simply
the needs of Bradley Manning.

703
00:51:36,358 --> 00:51:37,926
<i>Lamo met with federal agents</i>

704
00:51:37,927 --> 00:51:40,895
<i>and gave them a copy of his
chats with Bradley Manning.</i>

705
00:51:40,896 --> 00:51:43,198
<i>He also gave a copy
to Kevin Poulsen,</i>

706
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:45,332
<i>a friend and former
convicted hacker,</i>

707
00:51:45,333 --> 00:51:48,370
<i>who is now an editor
at Wired.com.</i>

708
00:51:48,371 --> 00:51:52,607
<i>I had just done a story about
Adrian being institutionalized.</i>

709
00:51:52,608 --> 00:51:56,845
<i>While he was institutionalized,
they had adjusted his medications.</i>

710
00:51:56,846 --> 00:51:59,214
I almost had kind
of a suspicion that

711
00:51:59,215 --> 00:52:01,917
maybe his new medications
weren't agreeing with him

712
00:52:01,918 --> 00:52:07,589
<i>and this was  A Beautiful Mind situation,
and he was imagining all this.</i>

713
00:52:07,590 --> 00:52:10,625
<i>Lamo gave Poulsen the okay
to publish the story,</i>

714
00:52:10,626 --> 00:52:14,863
<i>and days later, Wired.com broke
the news of Manning's arrest.</i>

715
00:52:14,864 --> 00:52:16,864
<i>Nobody wanted
Adrian to go to the media,</i>

716
00:52:16,865 --> 00:52:18,767
<i>but apparently
it was already done.</i>

717
00:52:18,768 --> 00:52:22,236
And, well, he ended up approaching
a lot of media after that.

718
00:52:22,237 --> 00:52:23,504
It just sort of exploded.

719
00:52:23,505 --> 00:52:27,274
Did it make you feel patriotic
when you turned Manning in?

720
00:52:27,275 --> 00:52:30,879
It made me feel very sad

721
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,216
that I could not have
interdicted this leak...

722
00:52:35,217 --> 00:52:40,754
I believed that his actions
were endangering lives...

723
00:52:40,755 --> 00:52:43,725
<i>Adrian lives his life as though
he's writing it like a novel.</i>

724
00:52:43,726 --> 00:52:47,428
And every novelist
wants to be read.

725
00:52:47,429 --> 00:52:52,600
<i>It's my job to play the role that I'm
cast in to the very best of my ability,</i>

726
00:52:52,601 --> 00:52:55,770
<i>the same as any other actor.</i>

727
00:52:55,771 --> 00:53:00,442
<i>You can't possibly be
yourself in the public eye.</i>

728
00:53:00,443 --> 00:53:02,810
<i>All of the little things
that make us human</i>

729
00:53:02,811 --> 00:53:06,915
don't stand up under the
scrutiny of the camera.

730
00:53:06,916 --> 00:53:12,620
I'd like to also point out that
I think that this marks the end

731
00:53:12,621 --> 00:53:16,661
of WikiLeaks's ability to say that
they have never had a source be outed.

732
00:53:22,565 --> 00:53:25,600
So he has been
charged with espionage.

733
00:53:25,601 --> 00:53:27,935
<i>The allegation being
that he has transferred</i>

734
00:53:27,936 --> 00:53:32,607
at least 50 classified
cables to another party.

735
00:53:32,608 --> 00:53:34,676
The other party is not named.

736
00:53:34,677 --> 00:53:37,511
<i>After Bradley Manning
was arrested,</i>

737
00:53:37,512 --> 00:53:42,484
attention shifted very much to
Julian, it was no longer a secret.

738
00:53:42,485 --> 00:53:45,822
<i>The pressure through
this period was intense.</i>

739
00:53:46,822 --> 00:53:49,991
Julian won't say where
he got that material,

740
00:53:49,992 --> 00:53:53,595
but he had the material, there
was no question about that.

741
00:53:53,596 --> 00:53:56,797
<i>We try extremely hard to never
know who our sources are.</i>

742
00:53:56,798 --> 00:53:59,001
So, all our encryption
technology is designed

743
00:54:00,001 --> 00:54:02,703
to prevent us knowing
who our sources are.

744
00:54:02,704 --> 00:54:04,238
<i>Was it really possible</i>

745
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,841
<i>that Julian didn't know that
Bradley Manning was his source?</i>

746
00:54:07,842 --> 00:54:10,012
<i>Or was saying so
an old Mendax tactic,</i>

747
00:54:11,012 --> 00:54:13,948
<i>telling a lie for
a noble cause?</i>

748
00:54:13,949 --> 00:54:15,716
<i>- Private First Class
- Bradley Manning</i>

749
00:54:15,717 --> 00:54:17,218
<i>is now said to have confessed</i>

750
00:54:17,219 --> 00:54:21,592
<i>to passing more than 260,000
documents to WikiLeaks.</i>

751
00:54:23,592 --> 00:54:27,328
<i>If he's the one, then that implies
there's much more to be released.</i>

752
00:54:27,329 --> 00:54:28,809
<i>Stephen Grey for
Channel 4 News.</i>

753
00:54:33,768 --> 00:54:36,705
<i>Julian knew
how much more there was.</i>

754
00:54:36,706 --> 00:54:39,941
<i>But now that Manning was
arrested, the question became,</i>

755
00:54:39,942 --> 00:54:42,776
<i>would WikiLeaks put Manning
in greater jeopardy</i>

756
00:54:42,777 --> 00:54:45,546
<i>by continuing to
release his materials?</i>

757
00:54:45,547 --> 00:54:48,649
<i>It's certainly a very
problematic situation.</i>

758
00:54:48,650 --> 00:54:52,386
This is about as
serious as it can get.

759
00:54:52,387 --> 00:54:55,522
<i>We have a situation where there's
a young man, Bradley Manning,</i>

760
00:54:55,523 --> 00:54:59,361
<i>who's alleged to be a source for
the Collateral Murder video.</i>

761
00:54:59,362 --> 00:55:02,464
<i>We do not know whether Mr. Manning
is our source or not.</i>

762
00:55:02,465 --> 00:55:07,134
<i>But what we do know is that
we promised the source</i>

763
00:55:07,135 --> 00:55:10,010
<i>that we would publish everything
that they gave to us.</i>

764
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:18,480
<i>Even though his potential
source had been arrested,</i>

765
00:55:18,481 --> 00:55:21,716
<i>Assange was undeterred
from the WikiLeaks mission.</i>

766
00:55:21,717 --> 00:55:25,386
<i>And the hundreds of thousands of leaked U.S.
government secrets he possessed</i>

767
00:55:25,387 --> 00:55:27,393
<i>were burning a hole
in his pocket.</i>

768
00:55:30,393 --> 00:55:33,595
<i>Julian traveled around Europe
plotting his next move,</i>

769
00:55:33,596 --> 00:55:37,598
<i>and in Brussels he was tracked down by
investigative journalist Nick Davies.</i>

770
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:39,301
<i>My pitch to Julian was,</i>

771
00:55:39,302 --> 00:55:42,837
<i>instead of posting this secret
material on the WikiLeaks website,</i>

772
00:55:42,838 --> 00:55:46,975
<i>he shared it with an alliance of  The
Guardian and other media groups,</i>

773
00:55:46,976 --> 00:55:48,776
<i>including  The New York Times.</i>

774
00:55:48,777 --> 00:55:53,415
Who, A, have the impact of reaching
millions of people instantly

775
00:55:53,416 --> 00:55:57,118
and also have natural political
connections in their own jurisdictions.

776
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:00,687
So we were trying to give him
a kind of political immunity

777
00:56:00,688 --> 00:56:03,558
so that he could do
this clearly provocative

778
00:56:03,559 --> 00:56:05,627
and somewhat dangerous thing

779
00:56:05,628 --> 00:56:08,902
in relative safety and with
an assurance of success.

780
00:56:12,902 --> 00:56:16,937
<i>Recognizing that WikiLeaks could
benefit from a louder megaphone,</i>

781
00:56:16,938 --> 00:56:19,140
<i>Julian agreed to
Nick's proposal.</i>

782
00:56:19,141 --> 00:56:21,843
<i>So, how am I going to get the
documents back to London?</i>

783
00:56:21,844 --> 00:56:23,078
There was a little
bit of a risk

784
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:25,680
that if the authorities were
monitoring his communications,

785
00:56:25,681 --> 00:56:27,114
as they might well have been,

786
00:56:27,115 --> 00:56:29,551
they would be aware
of my involvement with him,

787
00:56:29,552 --> 00:56:31,685
they would arrest me as I came
back into the United Kingdom,

788
00:56:31,686 --> 00:56:33,855
and take the material
if I had it on a laptop.

789
00:56:33,856 --> 00:56:35,823
We thought about a memory stick,
maybe they won't spot that?

790
00:56:35,824 --> 00:56:36,724
He came up with
a much better solution.

791
00:56:37,025 --> 00:56:39,534
He said that
he would create a website.

792
00:56:46,534 --> 00:56:49,504
<i>In order to access the website,
I would need a password.</i>

793
00:56:49,505 --> 00:56:52,207
So he took a paper napkin that
was on the table in this café

794
00:56:52,208 --> 00:56:53,908
where we were talking
in Brussels

795
00:56:53,909 --> 00:56:58,513
<i>and he hooked together several of
the words in the commercial logo</i>

796
00:56:58,514 --> 00:57:00,884
<i>and wrote,
"No capital letters."</i>

797
00:57:01,884 --> 00:57:03,484
I stuffed it in my pocket.

798
00:57:03,485 --> 00:57:05,085
In the event that I was
arrested, people would assume

799
00:57:05,086 --> 00:57:06,021
that it was something I was
going to blow my nose on.

800
00:57:07,021 --> 00:57:09,089
And so it was I traveled
back to the United Kingdom,

801
00:57:09,090 --> 00:57:11,450
and, as it happened, nobody
stopped me so it was all cool.

802
00:57:12,661 --> 00:57:14,162
<i>Julian would also team up</i>

803
00:57:14,163 --> 00:57:17,631
<i>with the London-based Bureau
for Investigative Journalism.</i>

804
00:57:17,632 --> 00:57:19,734
<i>In a prearranged drop point
in Central London,</i>

805
00:57:19,735 --> 00:57:21,935
<i>Julian met Iain Overton.</i>

806
00:57:21,936 --> 00:57:23,738
We turned up
and Julian was there

807
00:57:23,739 --> 00:57:25,772
wearing a bullet-proof vest

808
00:57:25,773 --> 00:57:27,134
and we had
a Middle Eastern meal.

809
00:57:30,846 --> 00:57:32,747
<i>And he revealed that he had</i>

810
00:57:32,748 --> 00:57:38,285
the largest-ever military leak of
documents in the history of leaks.

811
00:57:38,286 --> 00:57:42,189
<i>In the midst of this spy story was
thrust Iain's young colleague,</i>

812
00:57:42,190 --> 00:57:44,959
<i>a computer whiz
named James Ball.</i>

813
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:49,129
About 1:00 in the morning
I took delivery on a USB stick

814
00:57:49,130 --> 00:57:53,267
of 390,000 secret
U.S. military records.

815
00:57:53,268 --> 00:57:56,703
<i>I make to leave and Julian
asks me where I'm going.</i>

816
00:57:56,704 --> 00:57:58,464
<i>I said, "Well, I was
going to go home."</i>

817
00:57:59,007 --> 00:58:01,642
<i>He sort of pauses
and goes, "No, don't do that.</i>

818
00:58:01,643 --> 00:58:04,212
<i>"I don't want your address
linked to this address.</i>

819
00:58:04,213 --> 00:58:08,249
<i>"Can you find somewhere else to go
at least for four or five hours?"</i>

820
00:58:08,250 --> 00:58:10,584
<i>I don't really think
I can go and hit a club.</i>

821
00:58:10,585 --> 00:58:12,787
I'd really hate having
to try and explain

822
00:58:12,788 --> 00:58:16,614
losing 400,000 secret documents
because I got a bit drunk.

823
00:58:39,614 --> 00:58:41,383
<i>Nobody had ever done this before.</i>

824
00:58:41,384 --> 00:58:45,085
<i>How do you have teams of intelligent
people to go through this stuff?</i>

825
00:58:45,086 --> 00:58:46,553
Nobody in my experience
as a journalist

826
00:58:46,554 --> 00:58:50,758
had ever been confronted with a tenth
of the mass of material he was.

827
00:58:50,759 --> 00:58:53,294
We're talking in a half
a million lines of data.

828
00:58:53,295 --> 00:58:56,797
If in the old days you had to take
half a million lines of data out,

829
00:58:56,798 --> 00:58:59,801
you'd have had 16 wheelbarrows out
of the front door of the Pentagon.

830
00:58:59,802 --> 00:59:03,104
This was the biggest leak
of secret material

831
00:59:03,105 --> 00:59:04,785
in the history of
this particular planet.

832
00:59:07,742 --> 00:59:10,243
<i>Julian decided that the
first release of material</i>

833
00:59:10,244 --> 00:59:12,080
<i>would be the Afghan War Logs.</i>

834
00:59:12,081 --> 00:59:15,049
<i>But he had to
understand them first.</i>

835
00:59:15,050 --> 00:59:18,051
<i>In London, The Guardian
set up a secret operation</i>

836
00:59:18,052 --> 00:59:20,154
<i>with key military reporters</i>

837
00:59:20,155 --> 00:59:23,091
<i>from The New York Times and the
German magazine Der Spiegel,</i>

838
00:59:23,092 --> 00:59:25,192
<i>veteran journalists
who could penetrate</i>

839
00:59:25,193 --> 00:59:27,030
<i>the arcane language
of the military.</i>

840
00:59:28,030 --> 00:59:29,930
You've got much more information
than you have in this.

841
00:59:29,931 --> 00:59:32,232
But here's the key part...

842
00:59:32,233 --> 00:59:33,513
<i>During the four or five weeks</i>

843
00:59:33,768 --> 00:59:36,169
<i>when the reporters were working
on the Afghan War Logs,</i>

844
00:59:36,170 --> 00:59:39,841
all of us became concerned that
there was material in there

845
00:59:39,842 --> 00:59:43,977
which, if published, could get people
hurt on the ground in Afghanistan.

846
00:59:43,978 --> 00:59:46,416
This huge attack goes for
22 hours or something.

847
00:59:47,416 --> 00:59:49,084
Starts here.

848
00:59:49,085 --> 00:59:52,053
<i>This particularly related to
ordinary Afghan civilians</i>

849
00:59:52,054 --> 00:59:54,721
<i>who in one operation
or incident or another</i>

850
00:59:54,722 --> 00:59:57,290
<i>had given information
to Coalition forces</i>

851
00:59:57,291 --> 01:00:01,038
<i>and that was recorded in there in such a way
that those civilians were identifiable.</i>

852
01:00:09,038 --> 01:00:12,339
I raised this with Julian
and he said,

853
01:00:12,340 --> 01:00:16,243
"If an Afghan civilian helps Coalition
forces, he deserves to die,"

854
01:00:16,244 --> 01:00:19,346
and he went on to explain that they have the
status of a collaborator or an informer.

855
01:00:19,347 --> 01:00:21,314
Now...

856
01:00:21,315 --> 01:00:23,216
Are you sure about that? That's
definitely what he said?

857
01:00:23,217 --> 01:00:24,752
I have absolutely
no doubt about it at all.

858
01:00:24,753 --> 01:00:27,154
This was just me and him talking through
the detail of how we handle this.

859
01:00:27,155 --> 01:00:30,124
And this problem, potential
problem, had already come up.

860
01:00:30,125 --> 01:00:31,392
A, it's a moral problem,

861
01:00:31,393 --> 01:00:34,928
we are not here to publish
material that gets people killed.

862
01:00:34,929 --> 01:00:39,067
B, if you publish information which
really does get people hurt,

863
01:00:39,068 --> 01:00:41,102
or could conceivably
get people hurt,

864
01:00:41,103 --> 01:00:43,404
you lose your
political immunity,

865
01:00:43,405 --> 01:00:47,010
you're terribly vulnerable to the
most obvious propaganda attack

866
01:00:48,010 --> 01:00:49,910
which is waiting for us
in the wings

867
01:00:49,911 --> 01:00:51,311
that you are helping
the bad guys.

868
01:00:54,182 --> 01:00:56,049
<i>Julian's a computer hacker,</i>

869
01:00:56,050 --> 01:00:59,721
<i>he comes from that ideology
that all information is good,</i>

870
01:00:59,722 --> 01:01:02,390
<i>and everything
should be published.</i>

871
01:01:02,391 --> 01:01:04,158
<i>I asked Julian
if he would publish</i>

872
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:05,326
<i>information sent to his website</i>

873
01:01:05,327 --> 01:01:08,296
<i>that could lead to
the deaths of innocents,</i>

874
01:01:08,297 --> 01:01:12,166
<i>such as how to release anthrax
into a town's water supply.</i>

875
01:01:19,007 --> 01:01:22,877
<i>This is a man whose primary way
of interacting with the world</i>

876
01:01:22,878 --> 01:01:24,912
<i>is a digital one.</i>

877
01:01:24,913 --> 01:01:30,417
It is to some degree unsullied by
the limitations of human nature.

878
01:01:30,418 --> 01:01:35,055
He does sometimes reduce human
activity to something formulaic,

879
01:01:35,056 --> 01:01:37,759
and he doesn't see the human
heart beating in there.

880
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,460
<i>He just reduced it to that
very, very simple formula.</i>

881
01:01:40,461 --> 01:01:42,964
<i>"They speak to an occupying
force, they must be bad,</i>

882
01:01:42,965 --> 01:01:44,485
<i>"the informer
deserves to die."</i>

883
01:01:47,135 --> 01:01:48,870
<i>The coalition of journalists</i>

884
01:01:48,871 --> 01:01:51,939
<i>weren't used to working with a
transparency radical like Assange,</i>

885
01:01:51,940 --> 01:01:55,276
<i>and Assange was still learning
the ethics of journalism.</i>

886
01:01:55,277 --> 01:01:57,377
<i>They could only agree
on one thing,</i>

887
01:01:57,378 --> 01:02:00,954
<i>they were going to
release the documents.</i>

888
01:02:05,954 --> 01:02:08,321
<i>In London, a deadline was
set for all the partners</i>

889
01:02:08,322 --> 01:02:10,025
<i>to publish at the same time.</i>

890
01:02:11,025 --> 01:02:14,428
<i>Julian finally agreed to redactions,
the blacking out of names,</i>

891
01:02:14,429 --> 01:02:17,131
<i>and told his partners
he had a special process</i>

892
01:02:17,132 --> 01:02:20,968
<i>which would eliminate the identity
of sources from the documents.</i>

893
01:02:20,969 --> 01:02:23,303
<i>But with less than a week
before publication,</i>

894
01:02:23,304 --> 01:02:27,274
<i>Assange had neglected to tell
Domscheit-Berg in Berlin.</i>

895
01:02:27,275 --> 01:02:29,176
<i>So, there we were,</i>

896
01:02:29,177 --> 01:02:31,581
<i>four days before releasing
90,000 documents</i>

897
01:02:32,581 --> 01:02:35,917
and no redactions made.

898
01:02:35,918 --> 01:02:38,852
<i>It is effectively
impossible for us</i>

899
01:02:38,853 --> 01:02:43,957
<i>to notify some of these Afghanis in
their villages about this material.</i>

900
01:02:43,958 --> 01:02:47,093
<i>It looks like we will have to
do a redaction of some of them.</i>

901
01:02:47,094 --> 01:02:48,596
<i>Is that new for you?</i>

902
01:02:48,597 --> 01:02:50,832
<i>You're effectively doing a
bit of censorship yourself.</i>

903
01:02:50,833 --> 01:02:52,866
<i>Yeah, that would be new
for us, but remember...</i>

904
01:02:52,867 --> 01:02:54,201
<i>Time was running out.</i>

905
01:02:54,202 --> 01:02:55,537
<i>Just before the release,</i>

906
01:02:55,538 --> 01:02:58,872
<i>Assange focused on a section
of 15,000 documents</i>

907
01:02:58,873 --> 01:03:01,542
<i>that contained the most names.</i>

908
01:03:01,543 --> 01:03:06,080
<i>In desperation, he turned to
an unlikely source for help.</i>

909
01:03:06,081 --> 01:03:09,616
<i>It was reported that WikiLeaks has
asked the Department of Defense</i>

910
01:03:09,617 --> 01:03:14,120
<i>for help in reviewing approximately
15,000 classified documents</i>

911
01:03:14,121 --> 01:03:16,489
<i>that WikiLeaks obtained</i>

912
01:03:16,490 --> 01:03:19,426
<i>in an unauthorized
and inappropriate manner</i>

913
01:03:19,427 --> 01:03:23,598
<i>before WikiLeaks releases those
classified documents to the public.</i>

914
01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:26,901
<i>Julian urged The New York Times
to send a letter to the Pentagon</i>

915
01:03:26,902 --> 01:03:29,136
<i>asking if they want to
help with redactions,</i>

916
01:03:29,137 --> 01:03:30,971
<i>and they refused,</i>

917
01:03:30,972 --> 01:03:33,573
and that was 24 hours
before the release.

918
01:03:33,574 --> 01:03:36,910
<i>...classified
and sensitive information...</i>

919
01:03:36,911 --> 01:03:41,515
This notion that he didn't care about
what was in that material is not true.

920
01:03:41,516 --> 01:03:44,019
He was actually quite
tortured by this material

921
01:03:45,019 --> 01:03:48,589
and with very few resources.

922
01:03:48,590 --> 01:03:51,359
<i>By himself, day and night,
he was consumed</i>

923
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:55,062
<i>with working out what to release
and what not to release.</i>

924
01:03:55,063 --> 01:03:59,500
WikiLeaks is a tiny organization
working on this huge scale.

925
01:03:59,501 --> 01:04:01,405
<i>It's going to make
some mistakes.</i>

926
01:04:03,405 --> 01:04:05,672
Is Spiegel "I-E"
or "E-I"?

927
01:04:05,673 --> 01:04:07,341
I-E.

928
01:04:07,342 --> 01:04:10,076
All right. Fuck that end
of the press release.

929
01:04:10,077 --> 01:04:12,546
<i>He was without
any support structure,</i>

930
01:04:12,547 --> 01:04:14,649
and he was about to
do a press conference.

931
01:04:14,650 --> 01:04:18,021
So, I'd say to him, "Julian,
you need someone there.

932
01:04:19,021 --> 01:04:21,254
"I mean, someone's got to
write a press release

933
01:04:21,255 --> 01:04:22,990
"or at least answer
the phone."

934
01:04:24,592 --> 01:04:27,560
<i>So it was just in the couple
of days before that launch</i>

935
01:04:27,561 --> 01:04:30,131
<i>that a couple of volunteer
students came in.</i>

936
01:04:30,132 --> 01:04:31,466
<i>I'm going to go now,</i>

937
01:04:31,467 --> 01:04:33,947
but I just want to give you
something to think about, which is,

938
01:04:34,001 --> 01:04:37,471
we've got this press
conference on, tomorrow.

939
01:04:37,472 --> 01:04:42,978
We're going to be
totally inundated.

940
01:04:43,978 --> 01:04:46,046
Completely totally inundated.

941
01:04:46,047 --> 01:04:47,982
Let's talk about WikiLeaks
as an organization.

942
01:04:47,983 --> 01:04:50,384
- Mmm-hmm.
- Is this Apple or IBM, or is this...

943
01:04:50,385 --> 01:04:52,986
It's a corner gas station,

944
01:04:52,987 --> 01:04:54,690
with some extremely
bright attendants.

945
01:04:56,724 --> 01:04:59,560
It was true that he tried
to create an impression

946
01:04:59,561 --> 01:05:01,261
that it was this very
large organization.

947
01:05:01,262 --> 01:05:05,233
It was Julian Assange,
his $300 laptop,

948
01:05:06,233 --> 01:05:07,535
10 SIM cards,

949
01:05:07,536 --> 01:05:10,638
and a very cheap jacket

950
01:05:10,639 --> 01:05:12,519
that he'd put on if he
had to do an interview.

951
01:05:18,179 --> 01:05:20,448
<i>He woke up late, of course.</i>

952
01:05:20,449 --> 01:05:23,350
I'm knocking on the door.
"Julian, come on, man."

953
01:05:23,351 --> 01:05:25,757
<i>He gets up.
Just his normal thing.</i>

954
01:05:28,757 --> 01:05:30,197
What's the time?
What's the time?

955
01:05:30,592 --> 01:05:32,326
Twenty-five to.

956
01:05:32,327 --> 01:05:34,807
- I also need to prepare a little list of things.
- All right.

957
01:05:37,164 --> 01:05:38,566
Tired.
I haven't been to sleep.

958
01:05:38,567 --> 01:05:40,701
But, good.

959
01:05:40,702 --> 01:05:42,736
<i>Fourteen pages in  The
Guardian this morning.</i>

960
01:05:42,737 --> 01:05:46,172
"Massive leak of secret files
exposes true Afghan war."

961
01:05:46,173 --> 01:05:48,375
We tell our sources
maximum political impact,

962
01:05:48,376 --> 01:05:50,143
and I think
we got pretty close.

963
01:05:50,144 --> 01:05:51,304
There's 10 trucks out there,

964
01:05:52,014 --> 01:05:53,414
10 media trucks,
10 media trucks.

965
01:05:54,148 --> 01:05:55,751
Yep.

966
01:05:56,751 --> 01:05:58,293
It'll be a good outcome.

967
01:06:06,293 --> 01:06:11,598
<i>He walked out that door as the
sort of aging student hobo.</i>

968
01:06:11,599 --> 01:06:14,801
By the time he had made
this 50-yard walk,

969
01:06:14,802 --> 01:06:17,171
<i>he was a rock star.</i>

970
01:06:17,172 --> 01:06:19,333
<i>He was one of the most
famous guys on the planet.</i>

971
01:06:30,351 --> 01:06:33,187
Holy fuck.

972
01:06:33,188 --> 01:06:36,524
<i>Most of you have read some
of the morning papers.</i>

973
01:06:36,525 --> 01:06:39,161
<i>So, this is  The Guardian
from this morning.</i>

974
01:06:40,161 --> 01:06:43,163
Fourteen pages
about this topic.

975
01:06:43,164 --> 01:06:47,100
<i>It's clear that it will
shape an understanding</i>

976
01:06:47,101 --> 01:06:50,270
<i>of what the past six years
of war has been like,</i>

977
01:06:50,271 --> 01:06:56,176
<i>and that the course of
the war needs to change.</i>

978
01:06:56,177 --> 01:06:58,712
<i>The war logs revealed a conflict
that was very different</i>

979
01:06:58,713 --> 01:07:01,214
<i>from what citizens
had been told.</i>

980
01:07:01,215 --> 01:07:04,618
<i>Civilian casualties were
much higher than reported.</i>

981
01:07:04,619 --> 01:07:08,555
<i>America's supposed ally, Pakistan,
was playing a double game,</i>

982
01:07:08,556 --> 01:07:10,857
<i>taking military aid
from the U.S.,</i>

983
01:07:10,858 --> 01:07:15,596
<i>even while working with the Taliban
to plan attacks in Afghanistan.</i>

984
01:07:15,597 --> 01:07:20,533
<i>The war logs also revealed the existence
of a secret American assassination squad,</i>

985
01:07:20,534 --> 01:07:24,639
<i>with a terrible record of wounding
and killing women and children.</i>

986
01:07:28,476 --> 01:07:32,212
<i>There is nothing that will have
greater consequences for our nation</i>

987
01:07:32,213 --> 01:07:35,381
<i>than the unleashing
of the brutality of war.</i>

988
01:07:35,382 --> 01:07:37,817
To have those types
of decisions,

989
01:07:37,818 --> 01:07:42,256
those types of deliberations,
done in secrecy

990
01:07:42,257 --> 01:07:44,725
is a tremendous disservice
to the American people,

991
01:07:44,726 --> 01:07:46,593
because these are things that
are being done in their names.

992
01:07:46,594 --> 01:07:49,295
And whether you agree
with it or not,

993
01:07:49,296 --> 01:07:53,634
to have a free back-and-forth
airing of these is essential.

994
01:07:53,635 --> 01:07:56,603
All the material is
over seven months old,

995
01:07:56,604 --> 01:08:00,241
so it's of no current
operational consequence.

996
01:08:00,242 --> 01:08:03,644
Now, in what circumstances
wouldn't you publish information,

997
01:08:03,645 --> 01:08:06,147
or are there any circumstances in
which you wouldn't publish it?

998
01:08:06,148 --> 01:08:08,648
We have a harm
minimization process.

999
01:08:08,649 --> 01:08:12,920
<i>Our goal is just reform,
our method is transparency.</i>

1000
01:08:12,921 --> 01:08:15,856
But we do not put
the method before the goal.

1001
01:08:17,692 --> 01:08:19,059
Sorry.

1002
01:08:19,060 --> 01:08:21,594
<i>To my amazement,
Julian announced to the world,</i>

1003
01:08:21,595 --> 01:08:25,698
"WikiLeaks always conducts
a harm minimization process."

1004
01:08:25,699 --> 01:08:29,236
Julian had no harm minimization
process in place at all.

1005
01:08:29,237 --> 01:08:32,572
So, on the WikiLeaks side,
were the redactions made?

1006
01:08:32,573 --> 01:08:33,674
No.

1007
01:08:33,675 --> 01:08:38,379
There were 15,000 documents
in the end got held back.

1008
01:08:38,380 --> 01:08:40,848
<i>But 75,000 documents
were published,</i>

1009
01:08:40,849 --> 01:08:43,550
<i>and they contained
about 100 names.</i>

1010
01:08:43,551 --> 01:08:45,486
<i>The newspapers
published articles,</i>

1011
01:08:45,487 --> 01:08:48,788
<i>accompanied by only a few
hundred redacted documents.</i>

1012
01:08:48,789 --> 01:08:52,459
<i>But even after the holdbacks,
and despite Julian's promises,</i>

1013
01:08:52,460 --> 01:08:56,330
<i>WikiLeaks published 75,000
documents on its website</i>

1014
01:08:56,331 --> 01:08:58,232
<i>without redactions.</i>

1015
01:08:58,233 --> 01:09:01,635
<i>The battlefield consequences of
the release of these documents</i>

1016
01:09:01,636 --> 01:09:04,470
are potentially
severe and dangerous

1017
01:09:04,471 --> 01:09:07,340
<i>for our troops, our allies</i>

1018
01:09:07,341 --> 01:09:08,443
<i>and Afghan partners.</i>

1019
01:09:10,578 --> 01:09:13,714
<i>I do not know whether anybody
subsequently did get hurt.</i>

1020
01:09:13,715 --> 01:09:15,883
The fact that
the material was there

1021
01:09:15,884 --> 01:09:18,452
and identifiable as
potentially dangerous

1022
01:09:18,453 --> 01:09:20,321
did the political damage.

1023
01:09:20,322 --> 01:09:22,122
<i>When the material
was first published,</i>

1024
01:09:22,123 --> 01:09:26,559
<i>the world was indeed talking about
civilian casualties in Afghanistan,</i>

1025
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:30,331
<i>and about the existence of a squad that
was going out and killing Taliban.</i>

1026
01:09:30,332 --> 01:09:32,966
<i>But the White House
managed the news,</i>

1027
01:09:32,967 --> 01:09:36,469
<i>and the story became "WikiLeaks
has got blood on their hands."</i>

1028
01:09:36,470 --> 01:09:38,505
<i>Mr. Assange can say
whatever he likes</i>

1029
01:09:38,506 --> 01:09:39,706
<i>about the greater good</i>

1030
01:09:39,707 --> 01:09:43,711
he thinks he and
his source are doing,

1031
01:09:43,712 --> 01:09:46,846
but the truth is they might
already have on their hands

1032
01:09:46,847 --> 01:09:51,285
the blood of some young solider
or that of an Afghan family.

1033
01:09:51,286 --> 01:09:54,654
The people at WikiLeaks could
have blood on their hands.

1034
01:09:54,655 --> 01:09:56,295
He does clearly have
blood on his hands.

1035
01:09:57,024 --> 01:09:58,184
The blood is on their hands.

1036
01:09:59,394 --> 01:10:02,395
<i>This is where we get into
the information war.</i>

1037
01:10:02,396 --> 01:10:06,667
That speculative blood became more
important than the actual blood.

1038
01:10:11,739 --> 01:10:13,773
<i>We already can see
all that terrible stuff.</i>

1039
01:10:13,774 --> 01:10:15,376
<i>We know about that.</i>

1040
01:10:15,377 --> 01:10:17,447
<i>Let's focus on your nightmares.</i>

1041
01:10:19,447 --> 01:10:20,581
<i>How all these people might die</i>

1042
01:10:20,582 --> 01:10:25,286
because the government's
secrets have been unleashed.

1043
01:10:25,287 --> 01:10:26,386
<i>As soon as
they pick up this line</i>

1044
01:10:26,387 --> 01:10:27,920
<i>about who's got
blood on their hands,</i>

1045
01:10:27,921 --> 01:10:29,555
<i>it's WikiLeaks being isolated,</i>

1046
01:10:29,556 --> 01:10:31,325
<i>and that, from
a political point of view,</i>

1047
01:10:31,326 --> 01:10:32,792
<i>was a clever move
by the White House.</i>

1048
01:10:32,793 --> 01:10:34,827
They stepped all around
any kind of argument

1049
01:10:34,828 --> 01:10:36,063
with these big news
organizations

1050
01:10:36,064 --> 01:10:38,898
<i>and isolated Julian.</i>

1051
01:10:38,899 --> 01:10:41,769
<i>By creating a distinction between
Assange and the newspapers,</i>

1052
01:10:41,770 --> 01:10:44,470
<i>the government avoided a war
with the mainstream media</i>

1053
01:10:44,471 --> 01:10:46,639
<i>and invented a perfect enemy,</i>

1054
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,642
<i>the guy Bradley Manning called</i>

1055
01:10:48,643 --> 01:10:50,582
<i>"the crazy,
white-haired Aussie."</i>

1056
01:10:58,086 --> 01:11:00,086
Julian.

1057
01:11:00,087 --> 01:11:01,721
Is this taking
some getting used to?

1058
01:11:01,722 --> 01:11:03,791
You've been pretty
much in the shadows

1059
01:11:03,792 --> 01:11:07,493
as far as the media's
concerned until recently.

1060
01:11:07,494 --> 01:11:12,433
We've grown a bit, so this is
now a time for me to do it.

1061
01:11:12,434 --> 01:11:15,501
WikiLeaks needs a face?

1062
01:11:15,502 --> 01:11:17,804
Yeah, the public demands
that it has a face.

1063
01:11:17,805 --> 01:11:19,366
And actually we'd much
sort of prefer,

1064
01:11:20,007 --> 01:11:21,642
I'd prefer, if it didn't
have to have a face.

1065
01:11:21,643 --> 01:11:23,711
And we tried to do
that for a while.

1066
01:11:23,712 --> 01:11:25,345
Um...

1067
01:11:25,346 --> 01:11:27,113
And people...

1068
01:11:27,114 --> 01:11:30,819
Just the demand was sort of so great,
people just started inventing faces.

1069
01:11:31,819 --> 01:11:33,220
<i>Some call him a hero,</i>

1070
01:11:33,221 --> 01:11:36,090
<i>some see him as a threat
to national security.</i>

1071
01:11:36,091 --> 01:11:37,758
Julian, thank you
for joining us...

1072
01:11:37,759 --> 01:11:39,827
This afternoon I talked to
the man behind the leaks...

1073
01:11:39,828 --> 01:11:41,694
<i>- Julian Assange.
- Julian Assange.</i>

1074
01:11:41,695 --> 01:11:43,496
<i>Mr. Assange,
good morning to you.</i>

1075
01:11:43,497 --> 01:11:45,366
<i>What have the leaks achieved?</i>

1076
01:11:45,367 --> 01:11:48,669
We have published
more classified documents

1077
01:11:48,670 --> 01:11:50,670
than the rest of the
world press combined.

1078
01:11:50,671 --> 01:11:51,871
So it's journalistic.

1079
01:11:51,872 --> 01:11:54,640
I'm fond of the phrase,

1080
01:11:54,641 --> 01:11:57,044
"Lights on, rats out."

1081
01:11:57,045 --> 01:12:01,581
Do you feel you have
accomplished what you wanted to

1082
01:12:01,582 --> 01:12:03,062
with the release
of these documents?

1083
01:12:03,484 --> 01:12:04,564
Not yet.

1084
01:12:16,564 --> 01:12:18,431
- You.
- What?

1085
01:12:18,432 --> 01:12:19,635
Jesus Christ.

1086
01:12:20,635 --> 01:12:22,104
So, two with you on the front.

1087
01:12:24,104 --> 01:12:25,706
My God, look...

1088
01:12:25,707 --> 01:12:27,174
Another double page spread.

1089
01:12:27,175 --> 01:12:28,908
I think that's the best photo.

1090
01:12:28,909 --> 01:12:30,510
That's not a bad photo.

1091
01:12:30,511 --> 01:12:31,578
I think it's really good.

1092
01:12:31,579 --> 01:12:33,947
And then you've got...
You've got your own banner

1093
01:12:33,948 --> 01:12:36,091
<i>at the top here for three
pages, in  The Times.</i>

1094
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:47,560
That's a bit of hubris.

1095
01:12:47,561 --> 01:12:49,561
Huh?

1096
01:12:49,963 --> 01:12:52,166
Well, for a couple of days.

1097
01:12:52,167 --> 01:12:54,287
It can wear off. But the
next few days, untouchable.

1098
01:13:00,140 --> 01:13:04,111
The founder of WikiLeaks found
himself making news again today.

1099
01:13:04,112 --> 01:13:07,147
Sweden issued a warrant for
the arrest of Julian Assange.

1100
01:13:07,148 --> 01:13:08,681
<i>Right now
Swedish authorities are</i>

1101
01:13:08,682 --> 01:13:09,950
<i>looking to question WikiLeaks
founder Julian Assange.</i>

1102
01:13:09,951 --> 01:13:12,653
Swedish authorities have issued
a warrant for his arrest

1103
01:13:12,654 --> 01:13:15,761
on suspicion of molestation and
rape in two separate cases.

1104
01:13:20,761 --> 01:13:22,196
Saturday,
August the 21st, I woke up.

1105
01:13:22,197 --> 01:13:24,598
Another journalist
had sent an email

1106
01:13:24,599 --> 01:13:28,035
<i>with a link to the website of the
Swedish newspaper  Expressen.</i>

1107
01:13:28,036 --> 01:13:30,069
<i>I went to this website and I
thought, "Well, this is a joke,</i>

1108
01:13:30,070 --> 01:13:31,104
"this is like
a spoof newspaper."

1109
01:13:31,105 --> 01:13:33,172
These huge headlines,
including one which claims

1110
01:13:33,173 --> 01:13:35,742
<i>that Julian Assange has
sexually assaulted two women.</i>

1111
01:13:35,743 --> 01:13:36,844
"What is this about?"

1112
01:13:36,845 --> 01:13:40,179
So, I phoned a guy in Stockholm

1113
01:13:40,180 --> 01:13:43,617
who is the main coordinator
for WikiLeaks in that city.

1114
01:13:43,618 --> 01:13:46,519
So I came up to this guy and I
said, "What on earth is going on?"

1115
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,489
<i>The man in Sweden
was Donald Boström,</i>

1116
01:13:49,690 --> 01:13:51,291
<i>an investigative journalist</i>

1117
01:13:51,292 --> 01:13:54,832
<i>who had agreed to help Julian Assange
while he was in the country.</i>

1118
01:13:58,832 --> 01:14:00,141
Yeah. I mean,
really, really.

1119
01:14:08,141 --> 01:14:09,108
And he liked it.

1120
01:14:09,109 --> 01:14:11,845
- He liked it?
- Mmm-hmm. Of course.

1121
01:14:20,787 --> 01:14:23,090
<i>Assange had thought of
moving his base to Sweden,</i>

1122
01:14:23,091 --> 01:14:25,157
<i>where WikiLeaks
kept its servers.</i>

1123
01:14:25,158 --> 01:14:27,260
<i>Laws were more favorable
to press freedoms</i>

1124
01:14:27,261 --> 01:14:30,663
<i>and Assange had
a growing fan base.</i>

1125
01:14:30,664 --> 01:14:32,933
<i>Fame offered Assange
a platform,</i>

1126
01:14:32,934 --> 01:14:35,136
<i>but it also made him
a visible target.</i>

1127
01:14:54,122 --> 01:14:56,723
<i>- Breaking news...
- Internet platform WikiLeaks...</i>

1128
01:14:56,724 --> 01:14:57,823
<i>The Australian
has denied the allegations</i>

1129
01:14:57,824 --> 01:14:59,594
<i>saying that
they are without basis...</i>

1130
01:15:20,014 --> 01:15:23,116
<i>An unknown source leaked the
police report to the press.</i>

1131
01:15:23,117 --> 01:15:25,586
<i>It included the
testimony of Assange,</i>

1132
01:15:25,587 --> 01:15:27,853
<i>the two women,
and, surprisingly,</i>

1133
01:15:27,854 --> 01:15:30,256
<i>a picture of a torn condom.</i>

1134
01:15:30,257 --> 01:15:32,759
<i>There were other
peculiar things going on.</i>

1135
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,962
<i>The case of one woman was
dropped, and then reopened.</i>

1136
01:15:35,963 --> 01:15:40,634
The general sense was, it's awful
curious that these charges would emerge

1137
01:15:40,635 --> 01:15:44,938
just after a very embarrassing
and damaging leak.

1138
01:15:44,939 --> 01:15:46,238
There were various
possibilities here.

1139
01:15:46,239 --> 01:15:49,609
One was that some women
who wanted to sell a story

1140
01:15:49,610 --> 01:15:51,111
to the newspapers
had set him up.

1141
01:15:51,112 --> 01:15:54,015
Another was that a really nasty
right-wing group in Sweden

1142
01:15:55,015 --> 01:15:56,175
had conspired to set him up.

1143
01:15:57,018 --> 01:16:00,153
Maybe some dark agency from the
United States has done this.

1144
01:16:00,154 --> 01:16:03,055
And way out on the extreme
ranges of possibility,

1145
01:16:03,056 --> 01:16:04,625
well, maybe he did it,
I don't know!

1146
01:16:04,626 --> 01:16:06,926
Did anything happen between
you and these two women

1147
01:16:06,927 --> 01:16:10,697
that could be construed
as sexual coercion or rape?

1148
01:16:10,698 --> 01:16:13,200
No words, no actions,
no violence.

1149
01:16:13,201 --> 01:16:17,006
There is nothing that could
be construed as rape.

1150
01:16:18,006 --> 01:16:19,408
Nothing at all.

1151
01:16:20,408 --> 01:16:22,709
Or sexual coercion?

1152
01:16:22,710 --> 01:16:24,511
Well, I don't know
what the hell that means.

1153
01:16:27,981 --> 01:16:30,250
There's no doubt that this
organization is under siege...

1154
01:16:30,251 --> 01:16:32,286
It was clearly
a smear campaign...

1155
01:16:36,658 --> 01:16:38,291
<i>We were warned
by Australian intelligence</i>

1156
01:16:38,292 --> 01:16:40,894
we would receive
such an attack.

1157
01:16:40,895 --> 01:16:44,331
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange
is calling it a "smear campaign."

1158
01:16:44,332 --> 01:16:47,166
His supporters claim that the
warrant is a way of silencing him.

1159
01:16:47,167 --> 01:16:50,937
You're telling me this isn't a witch
hunt, this isn't a smear job? Come on.

1160
01:16:50,938 --> 01:16:54,174
One accuser apparently
worked with Cuban exiles

1161
01:16:54,175 --> 01:16:57,778
and there's a story around
that she's a CIA operative?

1162
01:16:57,779 --> 01:17:00,046
<i>This whole thing stinks to the
high heavens, I gotta tell ya.</i>

1163
01:17:00,047 --> 01:17:01,681
I've seen this enough times,

1164
01:17:01,682 --> 01:17:03,716
where governments
and corporations,

1165
01:17:03,717 --> 01:17:07,453
<i>they go after people with
this kind of lie and smear.</i>

1166
01:17:07,454 --> 01:17:09,456
This is all a bunch of hooey
as far as I'm concerned.

1167
01:17:09,457 --> 01:17:12,925
Well, it's certainly a
surreal Swedish fairy tale.

1168
01:17:12,926 --> 01:17:16,095
The only thing that hasn't walked
onto stage yet are the trolls.

1169
01:17:16,096 --> 01:17:18,038
And I'm waiting
for them to arrive.

1170
01:17:25,038 --> 01:17:28,709
<i>It is my role
to be the lightning rod,</i>

1171
01:17:28,710 --> 01:17:32,912
<i>to attract the attacks against
the organization for our work.</i>

1172
01:17:32,913 --> 01:17:37,850
One aspect of that has been the legal
situation for yourself in Sweden.

1173
01:17:37,851 --> 01:17:40,155
I'm not going to talk about
that in relation to this.

1174
01:17:42,155 --> 01:17:43,355
But it does affect WikiLeaks.

1175
01:17:44,024 --> 01:17:46,326
I will have to
walk if you're...

1176
01:17:46,327 --> 01:17:48,327
Do you still...
You had once talked...

1177
01:17:48,328 --> 01:17:52,099
If you're going to contaminate
this extremely serious interview

1178
01:17:52,100 --> 01:17:53,834
with questions about
my personal life...

1179
01:17:53,835 --> 01:17:55,736
I'm not, what I'm asking is,

1180
01:17:55,737 --> 01:17:57,497
if you feel that it's
an attack on WikiLeaks.

1181
01:17:59,474 --> 01:18:02,175
Okay, sorry.

1182
01:18:02,176 --> 01:18:04,810
Julian, I'm happy to go
onto the next question.

1183
01:18:04,811 --> 01:18:05,946
All I'm asking is...

1184
01:18:05,947 --> 01:18:06,847
Sorry.

1185
01:18:17,492 --> 01:18:20,227
<i>The case in Sweden was
still unresolved.</i>

1186
01:18:20,228 --> 01:18:21,708
<i>While the investigation
continued,</i>

1187
01:18:22,029 --> 01:18:24,531
<i>prosecutors permitted Assange
to leave Sweden</i>

1188
01:18:24,532 --> 01:18:27,233
<i>with the understanding
that he would reappear.</i>

1189
01:18:27,234 --> 01:18:29,536
<i>But Assange never went back.</i>

1190
01:18:29,537 --> 01:18:33,340
<i>Convinced Sweden was a trap,
he went underground in London.</i>

1191
01:18:33,341 --> 01:18:35,776
<i>Julian has a certain paranoia,</i>

1192
01:18:35,777 --> 01:18:37,410
<i>but in the time I was with him</i>

1193
01:18:37,411 --> 01:18:41,214
I think that high security
awareness was actually relevant,

1194
01:18:41,215 --> 01:18:42,849
it was appropriate.

1195
01:18:42,850 --> 01:18:45,417
Mind you, he'd been
living like that

1196
01:18:45,418 --> 01:18:47,319
for the past, you know,
five or ten years

1197
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,421
when it probably
wasn't appropriate.

1198
01:18:49,422 --> 01:18:51,258
Will there be anything
more coming from WikiLeaks

1199
01:18:51,259 --> 01:18:52,792
in the next two or three weeks?

1200
01:18:52,793 --> 01:18:54,560
<i>You never have a good
reason to be paranoid.</i>

1201
01:18:54,561 --> 01:18:56,929
<i>You have good reason
to be careful.</i>

1202
01:18:56,930 --> 01:19:00,934
<i>Stakes are high so you need to be
meticulously careful every day.</i>

1203
01:19:00,935 --> 01:19:03,836
<i>He'd been trained for this
moment, in evasive tactics,</i>

1204
01:19:03,837 --> 01:19:07,407
<i>and changing phones and taking out
batteries and changing computers.</i>

1205
01:19:07,408 --> 01:19:09,809
<i>May have been a fantasy before,</i>

1206
01:19:09,810 --> 01:19:12,978
<i>but it served him well
because it became real.</i>

1207
01:19:12,979 --> 01:19:16,849
<i>He was the focus
of intense enemies.</i>

1208
01:19:16,850 --> 01:19:20,219
<i>Right now the Pentagon reportedly
searching for Julian Assange,</i>

1209
01:19:20,220 --> 01:19:21,587
potentially on the verge
of releasing

1210
01:19:21,588 --> 01:19:24,890
a huge new stash
of confidential documents.

1211
01:19:24,891 --> 01:19:26,393
He was putting his head
above the parapet.

1212
01:19:26,394 --> 01:19:28,862
He was putting himself
in a dangerous position.

1213
01:19:28,863 --> 01:19:32,364
And I think, on the whole, he
handled the dangers pretty well.

1214
01:19:32,365 --> 01:19:34,934
There is a side to
this guy which is great,

1215
01:19:34,935 --> 01:19:38,871
and then there's this hidden side
which has been so destructive.

1216
01:19:38,872 --> 01:19:41,841
<i>He's a natural
fabulist and storyteller</i>

1217
01:19:41,842 --> 01:19:44,944
<i>and lives intensely
in his imagination,</i>

1218
01:19:44,945 --> 01:19:47,514
and to some extent that imaginary
world that he inhabits

1219
01:19:47,515 --> 01:19:51,984
becomes more real than the, as it were,
often mundane reality that we all live in.

1220
01:19:51,985 --> 01:19:53,220
Yes.

1221
01:19:58,359 --> 01:20:01,361
We certainly were under
surveillance in Iceland.

1222
01:20:01,362 --> 01:20:04,598
I, personally,
had chased people

1223
01:20:04,599 --> 01:20:07,634
who were surveilling me
with video cameras.

1224
01:20:07,635 --> 01:20:09,501
<i>He traveled to
a conference in Oslo</i>

1225
01:20:09,502 --> 01:20:11,304
<i>and then made
these allegations that</i>

1226
01:20:11,305 --> 01:20:15,508
<i>two State Department officials had
been on the airplane to follow him,</i>

1227
01:20:15,509 --> 01:20:17,344
<i>but there is no proof.</i>

1228
01:20:17,345 --> 01:20:21,081
And this is what got tiring
to a lot of us over time.

1229
01:20:21,082 --> 01:20:25,050
<i>Julian was constantly propagating
how much we're in danger</i>

1230
01:20:25,051 --> 01:20:26,486
<i>and all of these things.</i>

1231
01:20:26,487 --> 01:20:30,890
<i>And this was just lies
and propaganda.</i>

1232
01:20:30,891 --> 01:20:33,260
Maybe it's the fame,
maybe it's the attention,

1233
01:20:33,261 --> 01:20:36,962
maybe it's the pressures of working
in this kind of environment,

1234
01:20:36,963 --> 01:20:41,902
but somehow this
idealist that I met

1235
01:20:41,903 --> 01:20:45,578
became something else
somewhere through the story.

1236
01:20:50,578 --> 01:20:53,484
<i>This whole topic just headed
into a really bad direction.</i>

1237
01:20:57,484 --> 01:21:01,121
<i>There was this
article in Newsweek.</i>

1238
01:21:01,122 --> 01:21:05,427
That's what Julian took as a proof
that I had been speaking to the press.

1239
01:21:07,427 --> 01:21:10,596
<i>From that day on
I was a traitor,</i>

1240
01:21:10,597 --> 01:21:14,466
<i>I was trying to
stab him in the back.</i>

1241
01:21:14,467 --> 01:21:18,106
It boiled down to me being
suspended for, as Julian put it,

1242
01:21:20,106 --> 01:21:24,346
"disloyalty, insubordination and
destabilization in times of crisis."

1243
01:21:26,346 --> 01:21:28,348
Where did that
language come from?

1244
01:21:28,349 --> 01:21:32,954
I think, as much as I can tell, that's
from the Espionage Act of 1917.

1245
01:21:33,954 --> 01:21:36,055
<i>That was a cruel irony.</i>

1246
01:21:36,056 --> 01:21:39,192
<i>Across the Atlantic, the United
States Department of Justice</i>

1247
01:21:39,193 --> 01:21:42,362
<i>was investigating whether it
could use the Espionage Act</i>

1248
01:21:42,363 --> 01:21:45,297
<i>to put Julian Assange in jail.</i>

1249
01:21:45,298 --> 01:21:49,234
<i>The Espionage Act is primarily
intended to address situations</i>

1250
01:21:49,235 --> 01:21:53,372
where individuals pass national
defense information over to the enemy

1251
01:21:53,373 --> 01:21:56,242
in order to allow
the enemy to harm us.

1252
01:21:56,243 --> 01:22:00,045
<i>It would be unprecedented if the
Espionage Act was being used</i>

1253
01:22:00,046 --> 01:22:02,549
<i>to attack individuals
who did not do anything more</i>

1254
01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:06,158
<i>than The New York Times  or The
Washington Post  does every day.</i>

1255
01:22:14,060 --> 01:22:15,540
<i>Do you want
to let them in first?</i>

1256
01:22:19,199 --> 01:22:22,167
<i>The next big releases
were the Iraq War Logs.</i>

1257
01:22:22,168 --> 01:22:24,504
<i>This time WikiLeaks had
worked with volunteers</i>

1258
01:22:24,505 --> 01:22:28,241
<i>to devise a computer program to
solve the redaction problems.</i>

1259
01:22:28,242 --> 01:22:31,077
<i>There were almost
400,000 documents</i>

1260
01:22:31,078 --> 01:22:34,179
<i>detailing that the U.S. military had
purposefully hidden information</i>

1261
01:22:34,180 --> 01:22:38,087
<i>about civilian casualties
and systematic torture.</i>

1262
01:22:40,087 --> 01:22:43,288
President Obama sanctioned
the mass handover

1263
01:22:43,289 --> 01:22:46,158
of Iraqi prisoners of war

1264
01:22:46,159 --> 01:22:50,496
<i>from the American troops over
to the Iraqi authorities.</i>

1265
01:22:50,497 --> 01:22:53,366
<i>And one of the things that is
against the Geneva Conventions</i>

1266
01:22:53,367 --> 01:22:56,135
is you cannot hand over
a prisoner of war

1267
01:22:56,136 --> 01:22:59,104
to another authority who
you know commits torture.

1268
01:22:59,105 --> 01:23:01,206
But let me just say with
regards to the allegations

1269
01:23:01,207 --> 01:23:04,778
of not intervening when
coming across detainee abuse,

1270
01:23:04,779 --> 01:23:06,045
not true.

1271
01:23:06,046 --> 01:23:09,648
They had 1,300 allegations,

1272
01:23:09,649 --> 01:23:13,318
with medical evidence,
of quite horrific torture

1273
01:23:13,319 --> 01:23:17,657
<i>by Iraqi army and police
against detainees.</i>

1274
01:23:17,658 --> 01:23:19,358
<i>We're talking about sodomy,</i>

1275
01:23:19,359 --> 01:23:21,827
<i>we're talking about abuse
using rubber hoses</i>

1276
01:23:21,828 --> 01:23:24,397
<i>and beating people,
we're talking about murder.</i>

1277
01:23:24,398 --> 01:23:28,568
The sort of torture that supposedly
we were "liberating" Iraq from.

1278
01:23:28,569 --> 01:23:33,238
The U.S. Administration
under Bush and under Obama

1279
01:23:33,239 --> 01:23:37,479
continued turning over prisoners
despite knowing this.

1280
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,180
That is against
the Geneva Convention.

1281
01:23:41,181 --> 01:23:43,701
The Obama administration appears
to have committed war crimes.

1282
01:23:44,652 --> 01:23:46,203
<i>Who knew that before?</i>

1283
01:24:03,203 --> 01:24:04,804
<i>What had Manning done?</i>

1284
01:24:04,805 --> 01:24:08,675
<i>Was his leak, as the Army had
said, a reckless data dump?</i>

1285
01:24:08,676 --> 01:24:10,109
<i>Or was this the act of a man</i>

1286
01:24:10,110 --> 01:24:12,879
<i>who had peeked behind the
curtain of a superpower</i>

1287
01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:15,784
<i>and decided that
what it was doing was wrong?</i>

1288
01:24:17,784 --> 01:24:20,786
<i>After the leaks, and just
before he was arrested,</i>

1289
01:24:20,787 --> 01:24:21,987
<i>Manning was trying to reckon</i>

1290
01:24:22,023 --> 01:24:24,324
<i>with what he had done
and where he was going.</i>

1291
01:24:42,676 --> 01:24:44,810
There was never
even a possibility

1292
01:24:44,811 --> 01:24:49,648
that anyone could assume that
he had a female personality.

1293
01:24:49,649 --> 01:24:51,651
You mean that he wanted
to become a woman?

1294
01:24:51,652 --> 01:24:58,159
We knew that he was at least
considering hormone therapy,

1295
01:24:59,159 --> 01:25:00,593
but no one cared.

1296
01:25:00,594 --> 01:25:02,362
It wasn't like,

1297
01:25:02,363 --> 01:25:03,698
"Okay, he's going to have to start
showering with the females."

1298
01:25:04,698 --> 01:25:06,900
<i>Literally, nobody cared.</i>

1299
01:25:09,569 --> 01:25:12,171
<i>He would call me and cry.</i>

1300
01:25:12,172 --> 01:25:13,840
<i>Very loud sobbing</i>

1301
01:25:13,841 --> 01:25:19,278
like a child just in
a state of just utter loss,

1302
01:25:19,279 --> 01:25:21,781
<i>and he kept saying,
"I won't make it,</i>

1303
01:25:21,782 --> 01:25:23,716
<i>"I can't make it,
I can't do this."</i>

1304
01:25:30,690 --> 01:25:34,426
<i>I constantly asked him,
"Do you have someone?</i>

1305
01:25:34,427 --> 01:25:36,929
"Do you have anyone to talk to,

1306
01:25:36,930 --> 01:25:39,566
"that's there, that you can
see on a daily basis?"

1307
01:25:39,567 --> 01:25:41,604
And he assured me
that he did not.

1308
01:25:43,604 --> 01:25:45,904
<i>Manning did reach out
for help at least once,</i>

1309
01:25:45,905 --> 01:25:49,642
<i>in an email to
his master sergeant.</i>

1310
01:25:49,643 --> 01:25:53,730
<i>Manning attached to the email a picture
of himself dressed as a woman.</i>

1311
01:26:10,730 --> 01:26:12,490
<i>Several weeks later,
around dinnertime,</i>

1312
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,535
<i>Manning was discovered
lying on the ground.</i>

1313
01:26:15,536 --> 01:26:18,270
<i>With a knife, he had scrawled
on a chair the words,</i>

1314
01:26:18,271 --> 01:26:19,171
<i>"I want."</i>

1315
01:26:21,109 --> 01:26:24,578
<i>Later that same evening, Manning
tried to go back to work.</i>

1316
01:26:25,578 --> 01:26:26,446
<i>I was off-shift,</i>

1317
01:26:26,447 --> 01:26:28,648
and I had to come in
to find something

1318
01:26:28,649 --> 01:26:29,916
that he should have
been able to find.

1319
01:26:29,917 --> 01:26:33,452
And he was pacing back and forth
saying smart comments to me.

1320
01:26:33,453 --> 01:26:35,921
And I blatantly said,

1321
01:26:35,922 --> 01:26:40,326
"Manning, how 'bout you fix your
shit before you try to fix mine?"

1322
01:26:40,327 --> 01:26:43,895
And he screamed and
punched me in the face

1323
01:26:43,896 --> 01:26:45,797
while I was sitting down.

1324
01:26:45,798 --> 01:26:48,768
My adrenaline immediately
hit overload.

1325
01:26:48,769 --> 01:26:50,603
I stood up,
pushed my chair back.

1326
01:26:50,604 --> 01:26:52,705
He continued to
try to fight me,

1327
01:26:52,706 --> 01:26:56,643
but I put him in, you know, what
UFC would call a "guillotine,"

1328
01:26:56,644 --> 01:26:58,944
and pulled him on the floor,

1329
01:26:58,945 --> 01:27:02,381
and laid on top of him and
pinned his arms beside his head.

1330
01:27:02,382 --> 01:27:04,450
At that time, I can't
believe he messed with me,

1331
01:27:04,451 --> 01:27:05,812
I literally had
15-inch biceps.

1332
01:27:08,454 --> 01:27:10,774
<i>I was the last person he
probably should have punched.</i>

1333
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,296
My superiors decided that

1334
01:27:17,297 --> 01:27:20,767
it was just escalating too
much and he had to be removed

1335
01:27:20,768 --> 01:27:22,569
and have his weapon
taken away from him.

1336
01:27:29,310 --> 01:27:32,411
<i>At that point he never
came back in the office.</i>

1337
01:27:32,412 --> 01:27:34,772
He had to go work with the first
sergeant in the mailroom.

1338
01:27:41,055 --> 01:27:43,889
<i>In the mailroom, Manning still
had an Internet connection</i>

1339
01:27:43,890 --> 01:27:45,390
<i>to military networks.</i>

1340
01:27:45,391 --> 01:27:46,712
<i>His gun had been taken away,</i>

1341
01:27:47,027 --> 01:27:50,965
<i>but he still had access to
millions of classified documents.</i>

1342
01:27:51,965 --> 01:27:53,765
<i>We have personnel
security programs.</i>

1343
01:27:53,766 --> 01:27:57,437
<i>We try to take a look at the folks
to whom we give security clearances.</i>

1344
01:27:57,438 --> 01:27:59,471
<i>Should this young man have
been given that clearance?</i>

1345
01:27:59,472 --> 01:28:02,642
In retrospect, certainly not.
In prospect, who knows?

1346
01:28:02,643 --> 01:28:05,778
These are the kinds of decisions
that are difficult to make.

1347
01:28:05,779 --> 01:28:07,112
But let me put it
to you this way,

1348
01:28:07,113 --> 01:28:10,582
the American Army has had
incredibly stupid PFCs

1349
01:28:10,583 --> 01:28:11,984
for more than two centuries,

1350
01:28:13,086 --> 01:28:16,890
and PFCs occasionally
do incredibly stupid things.

1351
01:28:31,471 --> 01:28:33,372
<i>I didn't see him get arrested.</i>

1352
01:28:33,373 --> 01:28:35,974
But I saw him
walk down the hall

1353
01:28:35,975 --> 01:28:38,445
<i>with about four MPs.</i>

1354
01:28:39,445 --> 01:28:41,813
<i>He had a grin on his face,</i>

1355
01:28:41,814 --> 01:28:44,819
like, "I'm on top
of the world."

1356
01:28:46,819 --> 01:28:50,489
<i>The last communication
I received from him</i>

1357
01:28:50,490 --> 01:28:54,028
was that I was going to hear something
that would shock the world.

1358
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:28,760
<i>It was a pretty simple process,</i>

1359
01:29:28,761 --> 01:29:30,696
dropping CDs into your tower

1360
01:29:30,697 --> 01:29:32,732
and downloading large
volumes of information.

1361
01:29:32,733 --> 01:29:36,736
It wasn't incredibly
sophisticated.

1362
01:29:36,737 --> 01:29:38,438
<i>That's not quite true.</i>

1363
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:42,608
<i>Manning turned his computers into
efficient exfiltration machines.</i>

1364
01:29:42,609 --> 01:29:46,845
<i>Over several months, Manning
made over 794,000 connections</i>

1365
01:29:46,846 --> 01:29:48,747
<i>with the State Department's
server.</i>

1366
01:29:48,748 --> 01:29:51,216
<i>He downloaded hundreds of
thousands of documents</i>

1367
01:29:51,217 --> 01:29:52,689
<i>without anyone noticing.</i>

1368
01:29:55,689 --> 01:29:57,389
<i>When he hit a snag,</i>

1369
01:29:57,390 --> 01:30:00,230
<i>he reached out to another hacker for
advice on how to crack passwords.</i>

1370
01:30:06,733 --> 01:30:10,635
<i>Later, Manning talked to him about
the progress of the uploads.</i>

1371
01:30:10,636 --> 01:30:14,573
<i>In Manning's buddy list, the address
was listed under a familiar name,</i>

1372
01:30:14,574 --> 01:30:15,474
<i>Julian Assange.</i>

1373
01:30:58,252 --> 01:31:00,786
<i>On November 28th, 2010,</i>

1374
01:31:00,787 --> 01:31:02,854
<i>WikiLeaks and
its media partners</i>

1375
01:31:02,855 --> 01:31:06,559
<i>began to publish a small
fraction, carefully redacted,</i>

1376
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:10,228
<i>of the State Department cables
supplied by Bradley Manning.</i>

1377
01:31:10,229 --> 01:31:12,831
<i>The day-to-day memos
of American diplomats</i>

1378
01:31:12,832 --> 01:31:17,202
<i>revealed a surprising honesty about
how the world really worked.</i>

1379
01:31:17,203 --> 01:31:19,272
<i>It was that whole
Wizard of Oz  moment.</i>

1380
01:31:19,273 --> 01:31:22,608
We all look at these politicians,
"Oh, wow, they're so powerful!"

1381
01:31:22,609 --> 01:31:26,679
And then it was the little dog
pulling the curtain away.

1382
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:29,148
<i>The cables exposed criminal
behavior and corruption</i>

1383
01:31:29,149 --> 01:31:32,251
<i>by tyrants in Egypt,
Tunisia, and Libya.</i>

1384
01:31:32,252 --> 01:31:33,553
<i>That in turn helped to fuel</i>

1385
01:31:33,554 --> 01:31:36,621
<i>an exploding popular anger
against repression,</i>

1386
01:31:36,622 --> 01:31:38,927
<i>the so-called Arab Spring.</i>

1387
01:31:40,927 --> 01:31:42,661
<i>They also told the truth</i>

1388
01:31:42,662 --> 01:31:44,964
<i>about the faults of
America's so-called allies</i>

1389
01:31:44,965 --> 01:31:46,465
<i>in ways that were
bound to reveal</i>

1390
01:31:46,466 --> 01:31:49,337
<i>that their power and legitimacy
were a kind of fraud.</i>

1391
01:31:51,337 --> 01:31:55,974
This leak is industrial scale.

1392
01:31:55,975 --> 01:31:58,678
<i>It touches every relationship
the United States has</i>

1393
01:31:58,679 --> 01:32:01,346
<i>with other countries
around the world.</i>

1394
01:32:01,347 --> 01:32:05,751
Even as the United States and others
try to manage the impact of this,

1395
01:32:05,752 --> 01:32:10,992
it will be a wound that just keeps
opening up on a recurring basis.

1396
01:32:11,992 --> 01:32:15,060
<i>The behavior of the United
States was also exposed,</i>

1397
01:32:15,061 --> 01:32:17,330
<i>as the cables revealed
criminal cover-ups</i>

1398
01:32:17,331 --> 01:32:21,170
<i>and a systematic policy of using
diplomats to spy on foreign governments.</i>

1399
01:32:23,170 --> 01:32:25,270
<i>Look, everyone has secrets.</i>

1400
01:32:25,271 --> 01:32:28,306
Some of the activities
that nation-states conduct

1401
01:32:28,307 --> 01:32:30,943
in order to keep their
people safe and free

1402
01:32:30,944 --> 01:32:33,612
need to be secret
in order to be successful.

1403
01:32:33,613 --> 01:32:35,015
If they are broadly known,

1404
01:32:36,015 --> 01:32:38,117
you cannot accomplish
your work.

1405
01:32:38,118 --> 01:32:39,919
Now look, let me be
very candid, all right.

1406
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:42,087
We steal secrets.

1407
01:32:42,088 --> 01:32:44,189
We steal other
nation's secrets.

1408
01:32:44,190 --> 01:32:46,291
One cannot do that aboveboard

1409
01:32:46,292 --> 01:32:49,631
and be very successful for a
very long period of time.

1410
01:32:50,631 --> 01:32:53,331
<i>Disclosures like these
tear at the fabric</i>

1411
01:32:53,332 --> 01:32:56,738
of the proper function
of responsible government.

1412
01:32:57,738 --> 01:32:58,638
People of good faith

1413
01:32:59,006 --> 01:33:03,943
understand the need for sensitive
diplomatic communications,

1414
01:33:03,944 --> 01:33:06,344
both to protect
the national interest

1415
01:33:06,345 --> 01:33:08,880
and the global common interest.

1416
01:33:08,881 --> 01:33:10,750
<i>For the previous leaks,
the American government,</i>

1417
01:33:10,751 --> 01:33:12,084
<i>they were obviously angry,</i>

1418
01:33:12,085 --> 01:33:14,386
but they suddenly decided,

1419
01:33:14,387 --> 01:33:18,124
"Right, now it's time to
get Draconian on their ass."

1420
01:33:18,125 --> 01:33:21,760
<i>It's time that the Obama administration
treats WikiLeaks for what it is,</i>

1421
01:33:21,761 --> 01:33:22,961
<i>a terrorist organization.</i>

1422
01:33:22,962 --> 01:33:26,866
What we should do is treat
Assange as an enemy combatant,

1423
01:33:26,867 --> 01:33:29,702
who's engaged in information
warfare against the United States.

1424
01:33:29,703 --> 01:33:31,423
He's a blackmail,
extortionist, terrorist.

1425
01:33:32,005 --> 01:33:34,105
...crackpot,
alleged sex offender...

1426
01:33:34,106 --> 01:33:35,907
He's a criminal and he
ought to be hunted down,

1427
01:33:35,908 --> 01:33:37,977
and grabbed, and put on trial.

1428
01:33:37,978 --> 01:33:41,015
We have a very serious criminal
investigation that's underway

1429
01:33:42,015 --> 01:33:43,016
and we're looking at all of
the things that we can do

1430
01:33:44,016 --> 01:33:45,456
to stem the flow
of this information.

1431
01:33:46,019 --> 01:33:48,688
He needs to be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law,

1432
01:33:48,689 --> 01:33:50,889
and if that becomes a problem,
we need to change the law.

1433
01:33:50,890 --> 01:33:52,425
We've got special ops forces.

1434
01:33:52,426 --> 01:33:54,359
A dead man can't leak stuff...

1435
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,161
...illegally shoot
the son of a...

1436
01:33:56,162 --> 01:33:58,764
This little punk...
Now I stand up for Obama.

1437
01:33:58,765 --> 01:34:02,233
Obama, if you're listening today,
you should take this guy out.

1438
01:34:02,234 --> 01:34:05,470
I think Obama should put out a contract
and maybe use a drone or something.

1439
01:34:05,471 --> 01:34:08,810
That's what I'd like to see, a
little drone hit Assange, right.

1440
01:34:10,810 --> 01:34:13,045
<i>All the threats were
aimed at Assange.</i>

1441
01:34:13,046 --> 01:34:16,149
<i>No one called for attacks on The
Guardian  or The New York Times.</i>

1442
01:34:17,149 --> 01:34:19,151
<i>I found that astounding.</i>

1443
01:34:19,152 --> 01:34:21,853
If Julian Assange
should be charged

1444
01:34:21,854 --> 01:34:24,756
with some offense
under American law,

1445
01:34:24,757 --> 01:34:27,193
<i>then absolutely
The New York Times editor</i>

1446
01:34:27,194 --> 01:34:29,894
should be in
the slammer with him.

1447
01:34:29,895 --> 01:34:32,163
<i>Suddenly, only two
days after the release</i>

1448
01:34:32,164 --> 01:34:34,332
<i>of the first batch of
State Department cables,</i>

1449
01:34:34,333 --> 01:34:36,902
<i>Interpol issued a demand
for Assange's arrest,</i>

1450
01:34:36,903 --> 01:34:38,903
<i>for his failure to
return to Sweden</i>

1451
01:34:38,904 --> 01:34:42,942
<i>to answer questions
about sex charges.</i>

1452
01:34:42,943 --> 01:34:45,310
<i>I'm really rather worried by
the political motivations</i>

1453
01:34:45,311 --> 01:34:46,978
<i>that appear to be behind this.</i>

1454
01:34:46,979 --> 01:34:49,180
Sweden was one of
those lickspittle states

1455
01:34:49,181 --> 01:34:52,917
which used its resources
and its facilities

1456
01:34:52,918 --> 01:34:54,953
for rendition flights
and torture.

1457
01:34:54,954 --> 01:34:57,523
You think if he goes to Sweden,
he may be sent to the States?

1458
01:34:57,524 --> 01:34:59,457
Certainly my mind is
very open about that.

1459
01:34:59,458 --> 01:35:02,260
- And you may fight it on that basis?
- Certainly.

1460
01:35:02,261 --> 01:35:05,397
<i>There were rumors of a sealed
indictment against Assange.</i>

1461
01:35:05,398 --> 01:35:10,135
<i>In secret, a U.S. grand jury served
subpoenas targeting WikiLeaks supporters.</i>

1462
01:35:10,136 --> 01:35:11,737
<i>Under political pressure,</i>

1463
01:35:11,738 --> 01:35:16,041
<i>VISA and MasterCard stopped
processing donations to the website.</i>

1464
01:35:16,042 --> 01:35:18,510
VISA and MasterCard
will happily process payments

1465
01:35:18,511 --> 01:35:20,379
for the Ku Klux Klan,

1466
01:35:20,380 --> 01:35:24,049
for all kinds of organizations
around the world,

1467
01:35:24,050 --> 01:35:26,152
and yet this one,

1468
01:35:26,153 --> 01:35:28,021
with no charges,
no warrants, no nothing,

1469
01:35:29,021 --> 01:35:32,992
they've not only blocked it themselves,
they won't let any intermediaries do it.

1470
01:35:32,993 --> 01:35:36,562
Meanwhile, WikiLeaks' founder is
still hiding from the police,

1471
01:35:36,563 --> 01:35:38,237
but today he did
speak out, online.

1472
01:35:44,237 --> 01:35:48,174
<i>What happens to WikiLeaks if
Julian Assange is arrested?</i>

1473
01:35:48,175 --> 01:35:51,943
This is carrying on, this is huge
material that is really important,

1474
01:35:51,944 --> 01:35:55,581
and everyone working on it
is getting it out there.

1475
01:35:55,582 --> 01:35:58,850
<i>WikiLeaks' principal spokesman
always has been Julian,</i>

1476
01:35:58,851 --> 01:36:00,986
<i>but with Julian
being in hiding,</i>

1477
01:36:00,987 --> 01:36:02,587
I essentially filled
in the gap.

1478
01:36:02,588 --> 01:36:06,192
Where is Julian Assange,
this mythic character?

1479
01:36:06,193 --> 01:36:08,426
Honestly can't remember
where I last saw him.

1480
01:36:08,427 --> 01:36:10,563
<i>I ended up doing
a lot of their television,</i>

1481
01:36:10,564 --> 01:36:13,832
<i>looking pretty much about 16.</i>

1482
01:36:13,833 --> 01:36:17,435
<i>You really did feel
a David and Goliath moment.</i>

1483
01:36:17,436 --> 01:36:22,174
Do you consider your organization and
your website to be under attack?

1484
01:36:22,175 --> 01:36:24,876
Yes, all week it's
been under attack.

1485
01:36:24,877 --> 01:36:27,112
<i>The WikiLeaks website
came under cyber attack</i>

1486
01:36:27,113 --> 01:36:29,281
<i>and kept falling offline.</i>

1487
01:36:29,282 --> 01:36:32,283
<i>In response, WikiLeaks supporters
began to mirror the site</i>

1488
01:36:32,284 --> 01:36:35,153
<i>on over 1,000 servers
around the globe.</i>

1489
01:36:35,154 --> 01:36:37,925
<i>It was impossible to remove
WikiLeaks from the Internet.</i>

1490
01:36:38,925 --> 01:36:40,425
The Internet in a digital era

1491
01:36:40,426 --> 01:36:43,996
lets governments get more
information and more power

1492
01:36:43,997 --> 01:36:47,966
and more communication
than they've ever had before.

1493
01:36:47,967 --> 01:36:51,536
But, it lets citizens
do the same.

1494
01:36:51,537 --> 01:36:53,537
Governments are more powerful
and more vulnerable

1495
01:36:54,006 --> 01:36:56,041
at exactly the same time.

1496
01:36:56,042 --> 01:36:57,776
<i>The fight on our hands is</i>

1497
01:36:57,777 --> 01:37:02,113
<i>who gets to control the Internet,
who gets to control information.</i>

1498
01:37:02,114 --> 01:37:05,951
<i>Hello. This is a classified
message from Anonymous.</i>

1499
01:37:05,952 --> 01:37:10,054
<i>After numerous attacks on the
truth-spilling platform of WikiLeaks,</i>

1500
01:37:10,055 --> 01:37:12,424
<i>including the shutdown
of its financing,</i>

1501
01:37:12,425 --> 01:37:14,059
<i>we have already
made it very clear</i>

1502
01:37:14,060 --> 01:37:17,095
<i>that we will fight for freedom
of speech and the free press.</i>

1503
01:37:17,096 --> 01:37:18,464
<i>We are Anonymous.</i>

1504
01:37:18,465 --> 01:37:19,898
<i>We are legion.</i>

1505
01:37:19,899 --> 01:37:21,099
<i>We do not forgive.</i>

1506
01:37:21,100 --> 01:37:22,667
<i>We do not forget.</i>

1507
01:37:22,668 --> 01:37:26,037
<i>In response to the financial
blockade on WikiLeaks,</i>

1508
01:37:26,038 --> 01:37:29,541
<i>the hacker collective Anonymous
launched cyber attacks,</i>

1509
01:37:29,542 --> 01:37:32,247
<i>taking down the websites of
VISA, MasterCard, and PayPal.</i>

1510
01:37:34,247 --> 01:37:36,114
<i>Free Julian Assange!</i>

1511
01:37:36,115 --> 01:37:37,582
<i>Free Bradley Manning!</i>

1512
01:37:37,583 --> 01:37:38,483
<i>End the war.</i>

1513
01:37:40,353 --> 01:37:41,454
Off the road, please!

1514
01:37:42,454 --> 01:37:43,423
<i>Off the road.</i>

1515
01:37:48,094 --> 01:37:49,175
You've been warned already!

1516
01:37:56,136 --> 01:37:58,569
<i>One week after the arrest
warrant was issued,</i>

1517
01:37:58,570 --> 01:38:00,371
<i>Assange surrendered
to police in London.</i>

1518
01:38:01,006 --> 01:38:02,340
<i>Deemed a flight risk,</i>

1519
01:38:02,341 --> 01:38:05,978
<i>he was ordered held in jail,
pending a bail hearing.</i>

1520
01:38:05,979 --> 01:38:08,947
Many people believe
Mr. Assange to be innocent,

1521
01:38:08,948 --> 01:38:14,087
and many people believe that this
prosecution is politically motivated.

1522
01:38:16,355 --> 01:38:18,275
<i>Assange's arrest
had become a mythic moment,</i>

1523
01:38:19,024 --> 01:38:20,595
<i>but what was really going on?</i>

1524
01:38:22,595 --> 01:38:26,598
<i>Was Sweden acting as an
agent of the United States?</i>

1525
01:38:26,599 --> 01:38:31,069
<i>Would extradition to Sweden mean
a one-way ticket to Guantanamo?</i>

1526
01:38:31,070 --> 01:38:33,070
<i>Or had the mission of
WikiLeaks become confused</i>

1527
01:38:34,006 --> 01:38:36,216
<i>with a private matter
between one man and two women?</i>

1528
01:38:43,216 --> 01:38:45,149
<i>Talk about why we're
altering your appearance</i>

1529
01:38:45,150 --> 01:38:47,286
<i>and filming you in this way.</i>

1530
01:38:47,287 --> 01:38:49,654
<i>The reason I felt it was
important to be obscured</i>

1531
01:38:49,655 --> 01:38:55,126
is mainly because of all
the threats I've received.

1532
01:38:55,127 --> 01:38:58,464
<i>And I know that different
media have published my face</i>

1533
01:38:58,465 --> 01:39:00,131
<i>without my consent.</i>

1534
01:39:00,132 --> 01:39:01,599
<i>And a lot of online communities</i>

1535
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:04,737
<i>started to have wild
speculations about who I was</i>

1536
01:39:04,738 --> 01:39:06,341
<i>and who the other girl was.</i>

1537
01:39:08,341 --> 01:39:10,642
<i>I feel that the less
my face is shown</i>

1538
01:39:10,643 --> 01:39:13,112
and the less people
can recognize me,

1539
01:39:13,113 --> 01:39:15,447
the safer I will be.

1540
01:39:15,448 --> 01:39:16,982
<i>Anna has been
advised not to talk</i>

1541
01:39:16,983 --> 01:39:20,551
<i>about any of the details of her
sexual encounter with Assange</i>

1542
01:39:20,552 --> 01:39:23,054
<i>until the legal case
has been resolved.</i>

1543
01:39:23,055 --> 01:39:26,759
<i>But there are a few facts
on which everyone agrees.</i>

1544
01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:30,261
<i>An organizer for a WikiLeaks
seminar in Stockholm,</i>

1545
01:39:30,262 --> 01:39:34,332
<i>Anna invited Julian to stay at her
apartment while she was out of town.</i>

1546
01:39:34,333 --> 01:39:36,170
<i>Then she decided
to come back early.</i>

1547
01:39:39,038 --> 01:39:40,540
<i>The following day
at the seminar,</i>

1548
01:39:40,541 --> 01:39:43,144
<i>Julian was approached by
another WikiLeaks volunteer.</i>

1549
01:39:44,144 --> 01:39:46,279
<i>Her name was Sofia.</i>

1550
01:40:00,060 --> 01:40:02,860
<i>The truth is the
first casualty of war.</i>

1551
01:40:34,860 --> 01:40:37,629
I tried actually
to tell his friends

1552
01:40:37,630 --> 01:40:42,100
that we can get this over
with fast and with no fuss

1553
01:40:42,101 --> 01:40:45,737
because I really didn't want
this to be in the papers.

1554
01:40:45,738 --> 01:40:50,375
<i>But he chose to make
a big deal out of it.</i>

1555
01:40:50,376 --> 01:40:53,411
<i>Julian had repeatedly
refused to have the test.</i>

1556
01:40:53,412 --> 01:40:56,380
<i>When he had finally changed his mind
and agreed to, it was too late.</i>

1557
01:40:56,381 --> 01:40:58,282
By that time, the women had
already got too frustrated

1558
01:40:58,283 --> 01:41:00,285
and too angry with
Julian's refusals,

1559
01:41:00,286 --> 01:41:01,526
and they'd gone to the police.

1560
01:41:04,157 --> 01:41:06,858
<i>They found out that they
were mutual lovers of mine,</i>

1561
01:41:06,859 --> 01:41:10,194
they had had unprotected sex,
and they got into a tizzy

1562
01:41:10,195 --> 01:41:14,765
about whether there was possibility
of sexually transmitted diseases.

1563
01:41:14,766 --> 01:41:18,536
<i>Ridiculous thing to go
to the police about.</i>

1564
01:41:18,537 --> 01:41:22,640
<i>When the women went to the police to try
to force Assange to take an HIV test,</i>

1565
01:41:22,641 --> 01:41:26,745
<i>their testimony raised questions
about possible criminal charges.</i>

1566
01:41:26,746 --> 01:41:31,183
<i>The police, on their own,
decided to investigate further.</i>

1567
01:41:31,184 --> 01:41:34,353
<i>The refusal to use a condom
took center stage.</i>

1568
01:41:34,354 --> 01:41:37,667
<i>If Assange had HIV and knew it,
it could be a case for assault.</i>

1569
01:41:47,667 --> 01:41:50,868
<i>The testimony of the women
raised another issue.</i>

1570
01:41:50,869 --> 01:41:52,770
<i>Did Assange refuse
to use a condom</i>

1571
01:41:52,771 --> 01:41:55,273
<i>because he wanted to
make the women pregnant?</i>

1572
01:41:55,274 --> 01:41:58,777
<i>Some pointed to the fact that he
had already fathered four children</i>

1573
01:41:58,778 --> 01:42:00,778
<i>with four different women
around the world.</i>

1574
01:42:02,381 --> 01:42:03,683
This is a man who's elusive,

1575
01:42:03,684 --> 01:42:07,486
he's always flying around the
place, he doesn't have any roots.

1576
01:42:07,487 --> 01:42:08,853
And he's got a number of kids.

1577
01:42:08,854 --> 01:42:10,788
There might be some sort
of primary impulse in him

1578
01:42:10,789 --> 01:42:14,193
to want to just reproduce,

1579
01:42:14,194 --> 01:42:16,694
to want to have some sort
of bedrock in his life.

1580
01:42:16,695 --> 01:42:19,331
This is the ultimate
digital man,

1581
01:42:19,332 --> 01:42:21,372
and actually you can't just
live in a digital world.

1582
01:42:32,278 --> 01:42:35,546
<i>I have never said
that this is a honey trap.</i>

1583
01:42:35,547 --> 01:42:38,819
I have never said that
it is not a honey trap.

1584
01:42:40,819 --> 01:42:45,724
He was claiming that he
didn't know who we were,

1585
01:42:45,725 --> 01:42:48,660
and that's not true.

1586
01:42:48,661 --> 01:42:51,263
He knew very well who we were,

1587
01:42:51,264 --> 01:42:53,967
<i>and he knew we were going
to the police before we went.</i>

1588
01:42:54,967 --> 01:42:57,236
<i>There are powerful interests</i>

1589
01:42:57,237 --> 01:43:01,444
that have incentives
to promote these smears.

1590
01:43:05,444 --> 01:43:08,714
<i>What Julian did was to start the
little snowball rolling downhill,</i>

1591
01:43:08,715 --> 01:43:10,482
that this was some
kind of a conspiracy.

1592
01:43:10,483 --> 01:43:11,916
And that was all he
had to do at that stage.

1593
01:43:11,917 --> 01:43:14,586
<i>It rolled and it
picked up speed.</i>

1594
01:43:14,587 --> 01:43:19,890
<i>A lot of rumors were
made up and pure fantasies.</i>

1595
01:43:19,891 --> 01:43:23,831
The wildest story of all
was that I was a CIA agent.

1596
01:43:24,831 --> 01:43:26,898
And I was like,
I couldn't really believe

1597
01:43:26,899 --> 01:43:29,404
that anyone would believe
such a weird story.

1598
01:43:51,591 --> 01:43:54,760
You've been very careful
not to say anything.

1599
01:43:54,761 --> 01:43:56,961
Why?

1600
01:43:56,962 --> 01:44:01,366
Because this is a legal case,
and not a public debate.

1601
01:44:01,367 --> 01:44:02,934
Sweden!
Shame on you!

1602
01:44:02,935 --> 01:44:04,670
Sweden! Shame on you!

1603
01:44:04,671 --> 01:44:06,538
Sweden! Shame on you!

1604
01:44:06,539 --> 01:44:10,942
<i>The way Julian's private affairs
have been conflated with WikiLeaks,</i>

1605
01:44:10,943 --> 01:44:12,943
<i>I find quite troubling.</i>

1606
01:44:12,944 --> 01:44:17,448
There was at one point an effort to
try and separate the two issues.

1607
01:44:17,449 --> 01:44:18,716
That was reversed

1608
01:44:18,717 --> 01:44:21,387
and the decision was made to
push the two causes together.

1609
01:44:22,387 --> 01:44:24,456
And so it just...

1610
01:44:24,457 --> 01:44:26,558
How was that reversed?
Was there a meeting?

1611
01:44:26,559 --> 01:44:29,528
Was there... Or it just
slid into that direction?

1612
01:44:29,529 --> 01:44:30,929
Julian reversed it.

1613
01:44:30,930 --> 01:44:32,397
Explicitly.

1614
01:44:32,398 --> 01:44:36,100
He very much wanted
what happened in Sweden

1615
01:44:36,101 --> 01:44:38,338
to be seen as part of
the transparency agenda.

1616
01:44:39,338 --> 01:44:40,639
<i>And it worked.</i>

1617
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:45,577
I'm here because the U.S. government
and the Swedish authorities

1618
01:44:45,578 --> 01:44:47,746
are trying to gag the truth.

1619
01:44:47,747 --> 01:44:50,948
These charges are completely
politically motivated

1620
01:44:50,949 --> 01:44:53,952
and have nothing whatsoever
to do with the prosecution.

1621
01:44:53,953 --> 01:44:56,623
It's a persecution,
not a prosecution.

1622
01:44:58,623 --> 01:45:01,059
<i>What is so extraordinary is the
way in which the two women</i>

1623
01:45:01,060 --> 01:45:03,060
have been either
completely forgotten,

1624
01:45:03,061 --> 01:45:05,663
as though they had
no rights here at all,

1625
01:45:05,664 --> 01:45:08,636
<i>or caricatured, vilified.</i>

1626
01:45:11,636 --> 01:45:12,871
<i>I've been through two years</i>

1627
01:45:12,872 --> 01:45:15,773
<i>of different kinds of abuses.</i>

1628
01:45:15,774 --> 01:45:17,709
<i>People coming to my house,</i>

1629
01:45:17,710 --> 01:45:20,978
people threatening,
or questioning

1630
01:45:20,979 --> 01:45:23,982
or following my friends
and family.

1631
01:45:23,983 --> 01:45:25,149
Some death threats,

1632
01:45:25,150 --> 01:45:30,761
but mostly sexual threats
that I deserve to get raped.

1633
01:45:34,761 --> 01:45:36,961
<i>A lot of Twitter
accounts and blogs</i>

1634
01:45:36,962 --> 01:45:39,864
<i>that are very close
to WikiLeaks</i>

1635
01:45:39,865 --> 01:45:43,639
<i>have been publishing things that
I know Julian knows is not true.</i>

1636
01:45:46,639 --> 01:45:49,911
They admire him very much, and he
could have easily stopped that.

1637
01:45:51,911 --> 01:45:55,045
<i>There was an enormous amount
of hype and misinformation</i>

1638
01:45:55,046 --> 01:45:58,416
<i>and bullshit that came out of
Julian Assange's supporters.</i>

1639
01:45:58,417 --> 01:46:00,652
And the more that
people realize

1640
01:46:00,653 --> 01:46:03,054
that they were lied
to by Julian,

1641
01:46:03,055 --> 01:46:06,425
the less moral and
political authority he has.

1642
01:46:06,426 --> 01:46:08,527
He's supposed to
be about truth.

1643
01:46:08,528 --> 01:46:09,928
<i>Information should be free!</i>

1644
01:46:09,929 --> 01:46:11,496
This is not democracy!

1645
01:46:11,497 --> 01:46:12,997
<i>We want free speech!</i>

1646
01:46:12,998 --> 01:46:14,499
Hands off WikiLeaks!

1647
01:46:14,500 --> 01:46:15,400
<i>We want free speech!</i>

1648
01:46:16,002 --> 01:46:17,769
Hands off WikiLeaks!

1649
01:46:17,770 --> 01:46:19,603
<i>-  What do we want?
- Free speech!</i>

1650
01:46:19,604 --> 01:46:21,474
<i>-  When do we want it?
- Now!</i>

1651
01:46:22,875 --> 01:46:24,910
Free Julian Assange!

1652
01:46:24,911 --> 01:46:26,577
Free Julian Assange!

1653
01:46:26,578 --> 01:46:28,822
Free Julian Assange!

1654
01:46:40,525 --> 01:46:43,461
Good evening, and welcome
to this fundraising dinner

1655
01:46:43,462 --> 01:46:44,383
for freedom of speech.

1656
01:46:46,064 --> 01:46:49,033
While I cannot be with
you in person this evening

1657
01:46:49,034 --> 01:46:51,903
because I am under
house arrest,

1658
01:46:51,904 --> 01:46:54,645
I can at least be
with you in spirit.

1659
01:46:59,645 --> 01:47:02,179
<i>After nine days, Assange
was released from prison,</i>

1660
01:47:02,180 --> 01:47:06,585
<i>his supporters putting up
over $300,000 in bail.</i>

1661
01:47:06,586 --> 01:47:08,953
<i>While Julian appealed
his extradition to Sweden,</i>

1662
01:47:08,954 --> 01:47:13,959
<i>a local journalist named Vaughan Smith
offered Julian a place to stay.</i>

1663
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:18,529
<i>Ellingham Hall is 125 miles
northeast of London.</i>

1664
01:47:18,530 --> 01:47:22,733
It's a house that's been in my
family for 250 years or so.

1665
01:47:22,734 --> 01:47:25,269
<i>We've got livestock, we've
got cattle, we've got sheep.</i>

1666
01:47:25,270 --> 01:47:27,572
<i>We've got game, obviously,
pheasant, partridge.</i>

1667
01:47:27,573 --> 01:47:28,984
<i>We shoot them and eat them.</i>

1668
01:47:37,984 --> 01:47:39,885
<i>Ellingham Hall
is a lovely place,</i>

1669
01:47:39,886 --> 01:47:42,086
but it's right in
the middle of nowhere,

1670
01:47:42,087 --> 01:47:46,825
and we'd packed it with
about 15-20 people.

1671
01:47:46,826 --> 01:47:49,769
<i>It's a sort of cross between Big
Brother  and a spy thriller.</i>

1672
01:47:56,769 --> 01:47:59,136
<i>Part of Vaughan's plan
to keep the thing civilized</i>

1673
01:47:59,137 --> 01:48:01,973
<i>was setting strict rules
around meals,</i>

1674
01:48:01,974 --> 01:48:06,911
<i>and so Vaughan's very lovely housekeeper
would cook for us three times a day.</i>

1675
01:48:06,912 --> 01:48:09,147
Even port served at dinner,

1676
01:48:09,148 --> 01:48:12,317
which was passed to
the left, of course.

1677
01:48:12,318 --> 01:48:13,654
And now we are in a position

1678
01:48:15,654 --> 01:48:18,590
where we are being
most aggressively censored

1679
01:48:18,591 --> 01:48:21,960
by the Washington establishment
of the United States.

1680
01:48:21,961 --> 01:48:23,961
<i>To raise money for
his legal defense,</i>

1681
01:48:23,962 --> 01:48:26,797
<i>Assange began selling
a compelling package:</i>

1682
01:48:26,798 --> 01:48:28,934
<i>Dinner with Julian.</i>

1683
01:48:28,935 --> 01:48:30,435
<i>In exchange for a donation,</i>

1684
01:48:30,436 --> 01:48:33,237
<i>WikiLeaks would provide a
link to a video of Julian</i>

1685
01:48:33,238 --> 01:48:35,306
<i>to be played at home
on a laptop,</i>

1686
01:48:35,307 --> 01:48:37,943
<i>placed on a tablemat set
for the absent hacker.</i>

1687
01:48:37,944 --> 01:48:43,782
And together, we make the world into a
place where all our dreams can play.

1688
01:48:43,783 --> 01:48:46,117
<i>This Dinner for Free Speech</i>

1689
01:48:46,118 --> 01:48:50,287
<i>was in fact dinner for Julian's
sex offense defense fund.</i>

1690
01:48:50,288 --> 01:48:53,791
No one knows now whether
money given to WikiLeaks

1691
01:48:53,792 --> 01:48:55,298
is going to Julian
or elsewhere.

1692
01:49:00,298 --> 01:49:03,667
<i>Julian's legal troubles made
him more famous than ever,</i>

1693
01:49:03,668 --> 01:49:07,938
<i>but they also intensified his differences
with his former media partners.</i>

1694
01:49:07,939 --> 01:49:09,840
<i>They defended his
right to publish</i>

1695
01:49:09,841 --> 01:49:12,978
<i>but began to turn
on Assange himself.</i>

1696
01:49:12,979 --> 01:49:15,913
I've been close enough
to see the

1697
01:49:15,914 --> 01:49:17,948
wasps around the jam here.

1698
01:49:17,949 --> 01:49:19,718
<i>He stirred the nest</i>

1699
01:49:19,719 --> 01:49:22,853
<i>and they've come to sting him rather
more than perhaps he expected.</i>

1700
01:49:22,854 --> 01:49:25,322
<i>In a January piece,
you described Assange as</i>

1701
01:49:25,323 --> 01:49:28,193
<i>"eccentric," "elusive,"
"manipulative," "volatile,"</i>

1702
01:49:28,194 --> 01:49:30,894
<i>"openly hostile," "coy,"
an "office geek,"</i>

1703
01:49:30,895 --> 01:49:33,415
<i>a "derelict," "arrogant,"
"thin-skinned," "conspiratorial,"</i>

1704
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:35,267
<i>and "oddly credulous."</i>

1705
01:49:35,268 --> 01:49:39,170
Um, is that any way for a journalist
to talk about his sources?

1706
01:49:39,171 --> 01:49:40,904
<i>He looked like
a bag lady coming in.</i>

1707
01:49:40,905 --> 01:49:43,642
<i>He was wearing kind of
a dingy khaki sports coat,</i>

1708
01:49:43,643 --> 01:49:45,077
<i>old tennis shoes,</i>

1709
01:49:45,078 --> 01:49:47,312
<i>with socks that were kind of
collapsing around his ankles.</i>

1710
01:49:47,313 --> 01:49:50,215
<i>And he clearly hadn't
bathed in several days.</i>

1711
01:49:50,216 --> 01:49:53,318
<i>The New York Times...
The hypocrisy of this act.</i>

1712
01:49:53,319 --> 01:49:54,620
They wanted the material.

1713
01:49:54,621 --> 01:49:58,089
They were fully complicit in the
publication of the material.

1714
01:49:58,090 --> 01:50:00,731
But as soon as the heat came on,
they wanted to wash their hands.

1715
01:50:05,096 --> 01:50:08,201
<i>I tried over many months to get an
on-camera interview with Assange.</i>

1716
01:50:09,201 --> 01:50:11,236
<i>After meetings and emails,</i>

1717
01:50:11,237 --> 01:50:12,903
<i>I was finally summoned
to the Norfolk mansion</i>

1718
01:50:12,904 --> 01:50:15,907
<i>for a six-hour negotiation.</i>

1719
01:50:15,908 --> 01:50:17,274
<i>Julian wanted money.</i>

1720
01:50:17,275 --> 01:50:19,810
<i>He said that the market rate
for an interview with him</i>

1721
01:50:19,811 --> 01:50:21,845
<i>was one million dollars.</i>

1722
01:50:21,846 --> 01:50:24,448
<i>When I declined,
he offered an alternative,</i>

1723
01:50:24,449 --> 01:50:27,986
<i>perhaps I would spy on my other
interviews and report back to him.</i>

1724
01:50:27,987 --> 01:50:29,921
<i>I couldn't do that either.</i>

1725
01:50:29,922 --> 01:50:34,858
<i>During his time under house arrest, he
had become more secretive and paranoid.</i>

1726
01:50:34,859 --> 01:50:36,694
<i>He railed against his enemies,</i>

1727
01:50:36,695 --> 01:50:38,962
<i>and I knew that he had tried
to get all his followers</i>

1728
01:50:38,963 --> 01:50:40,898
<i>to sign a non-disclosure
agreement.</i>

1729
01:50:40,899 --> 01:50:42,701
<i>The penalty for leaking,</i>

1730
01:50:42,702 --> 01:50:45,437
<i>$19 million.</i>

1731
01:50:45,438 --> 01:50:47,871
<i>I'd found this
a little bit awkward,</i>

1732
01:50:47,872 --> 01:50:51,041
being asked by
a transparency organization

1733
01:50:51,042 --> 01:50:53,077
to sign exactly
the kind of document

1734
01:50:53,078 --> 01:50:57,047
used to silence whistle-blowers
around the world.

1735
01:50:57,048 --> 01:50:59,487
Seemed pretty troubling.
And so I refused.

1736
01:51:01,487 --> 01:51:05,255
<i>All organizations
face two possible paths.</i>

1737
01:51:05,256 --> 01:51:09,461
They can be open, honest, just,

1738
01:51:09,462 --> 01:51:13,831
or they can be closed, unjust,

1739
01:51:13,832 --> 01:51:15,072
<i>and therefore not successful.</i>

1740
01:51:18,002 --> 01:51:20,006
<i>Had the secret-leaker
become the secret-keeper?</i>

1741
01:51:21,006 --> 01:51:23,508
<i>More and more fond
of mysteries.</i>

1742
01:51:23,509 --> 01:51:27,144
<i>The biggest mystery of all was
the role of the United States.</i>

1743
01:51:27,145 --> 01:51:29,413
<i>Over two years
after the first leak,</i>

1744
01:51:29,414 --> 01:51:32,019
<i>no charges have been
filed by the U.S.</i>

1745
01:51:34,019 --> 01:51:36,987
<i>Assange claimed that the U.S.
was biding its time,</i>

1746
01:51:36,988 --> 01:51:39,189
<i>waiting for him
to go to Sweden.</i>

1747
01:51:39,190 --> 01:51:40,992
<i>But there was no proof.</i>

1748
01:51:40,993 --> 01:51:43,795
<i>In fact, members of
Assange's legal team</i>

1749
01:51:43,796 --> 01:51:45,130
<i>admitted that
it would be easier</i>

1750
01:51:45,131 --> 01:51:48,933
<i>for the U.S. to extradite
Assange from Britain.</i>

1751
01:51:48,934 --> 01:51:50,934
<i>Britain is the one that's
done this special deal</i>

1752
01:51:50,935 --> 01:51:52,403
<i>with the United States
on extradition.</i>

1753
01:51:52,404 --> 01:51:54,872
But Sweden is
particularly strong

1754
01:51:54,873 --> 01:52:00,844
in seeing as sacrosanct that
business about handing people over.

1755
01:52:00,845 --> 01:52:03,814
They would hold to that perhaps
stronger than Britain would.

1756
01:52:03,815 --> 01:52:06,552
We think we've got a special
relationship with the United States.

1757
01:52:07,552 --> 01:52:09,520
<i>Despite that
special relationship,</i>

1758
01:52:09,521 --> 01:52:12,322
<i>Assange desperately
fought extradition to Sweden</i>

1759
01:52:12,323 --> 01:52:13,892
<i>and lost every appeal.</i>

1760
01:52:13,893 --> 01:52:16,059
Julian, we are with you!

1761
01:52:16,060 --> 01:52:17,929
<i>His legal battle
drained his finances</i>

1762
01:52:17,930 --> 01:52:20,400
<i>and trapped him in a family
farm for over a year.</i>

1763
01:52:22,400 --> 01:52:26,571
<i>Hoped for funding didn't come, and
WikiLeaks suspended operations.</i>

1764
01:52:26,572 --> 01:52:30,908
<i>His international organization
had blown apart.</i>

1765
01:52:30,909 --> 01:52:35,112
<i>In Berlin, Daniel Domscheit-Berg
quit the organization.</i>

1766
01:52:35,113 --> 01:52:39,216
<i>So did the mysterious figure who had
built the secret submission system.</i>

1767
01:52:39,217 --> 01:52:43,121
<i>Assange no longer had
a drop box for new leaks.</i>

1768
01:52:43,122 --> 01:52:47,358
<i>In London, journalist Heather
Brooke was leaked unredacted copies</i>

1769
01:52:47,359 --> 01:52:51,094
<i>of all of the State Department
cables by a WikiLeaks insider.</i>

1770
01:52:51,095 --> 01:52:54,264
<i>There was the initial people that
Julian gave the information to</i>

1771
01:52:54,265 --> 01:52:56,401
and then, how many people
did they give it to,

1772
01:52:56,402 --> 01:52:58,937
and then how many people
did they give it to?

1773
01:52:58,938 --> 01:53:02,105
<i>Some of the cables also
leaked to a European dictator</i>

1774
01:53:02,106 --> 01:53:05,977
<i>who used them to target dissidents
and suppress free speech.</i>

1775
01:53:05,978 --> 01:53:09,413
This is at the core
of where things went wrong,

1776
01:53:09,414 --> 01:53:12,584
and where ultimately
WikiLeaks has lost control

1777
01:53:12,585 --> 01:53:16,054
<i>over the spread of
these documents.</i>

1778
01:53:16,055 --> 01:53:19,456
<i>In the end, all of the cables
leaked across the Internet</i>

1779
01:53:19,457 --> 01:53:21,530
<i>on mirrored versions
of WikiLeaks.org.</i>

1780
01:53:25,530 --> 01:53:28,600
<i>All Julian had left
was his celebrity.</i>

1781
01:53:30,269 --> 01:53:31,536
How you doing,
Mr. Assange?

1782
01:53:31,537 --> 01:53:33,337
That's my personal information

1783
01:53:33,338 --> 01:53:36,340
and you have no right
to know about it!

1784
01:53:36,341 --> 01:53:40,012
<i>Julian extended his brand by hosting a
chat show for Russian state television.</i>

1785
01:53:41,012 --> 01:53:42,179
<i>Where are you?
In England?</i>

1786
01:53:42,180 --> 01:53:46,984
I am in England, under house
arrest now for 500 days.

1787
01:53:46,985 --> 01:53:48,819
<i>Five hundred days.</i>

1788
01:53:48,820 --> 01:53:52,458
<i>One of his guests was Rafael
Correa, the president of Ecuador.</i>

1789
01:53:56,095 --> 01:53:57,961
Thank you, President Correa.

1790
01:53:57,962 --> 01:53:59,930
<i>A month after
the program aired,</i>

1791
01:53:59,931 --> 01:54:02,636
<i>Assange sought asylum
from his former TV guest.</i>

1792
01:54:09,307 --> 01:54:12,477
<i>This morning the sun came
up on a different world,</i>

1793
01:54:12,478 --> 01:54:18,483
<i>and a courageous Latin American
nation took a stand for justice.</i>

1794
01:54:18,484 --> 01:54:19,984
<i>It was an ironic choice.</i>

1795
01:54:19,985 --> 01:54:22,266
<i>Ecuador had a record of
putting journalists in prison</i>

1796
01:54:25,024 --> 01:54:28,393
<i>and had been charged with
corruption in a WikiLeaks cable.</i>

1797
01:54:28,394 --> 01:54:32,000
<i>The United States must renounce
its witch hunt against WikiLeaks.</i>

1798
01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:37,367
<i>Despite no proof
of a US-Sweden plot,</i>

1799
01:54:37,368 --> 01:54:40,138
<i>Ecuador granted him asylum.</i>

1800
01:54:40,139 --> 01:54:44,175
<i>The British government pledged to arrest him
if he left the tight confines of the embassy,</i>

1801
01:54:44,176 --> 01:54:46,712
<i>so Assange prepared
for a long stay.</i>

1802
01:54:49,547 --> 01:54:51,249
<i>I saw the signs</i>

1803
01:54:51,250 --> 01:54:54,318
<i>"Free Bradley Manning"
and "Free Julian Assange,"</i>

1804
01:54:54,319 --> 01:54:56,086
and I think it's ridiculous.

1805
01:54:56,087 --> 01:54:59,489
These two cases have nothing
to do with each other.

1806
01:54:59,490 --> 01:55:01,693
<i>Julian, he's not
even imprisoned.</i>

1807
01:55:01,694 --> 01:55:05,697
<i>He has locked himself up
to avoid coming to Sweden</i>

1808
01:55:05,698 --> 01:55:09,373
to answer a few pretty
simple questions.

1809
01:55:15,373 --> 01:55:19,644
<i>There is a phenomenon
called Noble Cause Corruption.</i>

1810
01:55:19,645 --> 01:55:23,046
<i>Essentially,
you do things which</i>

1811
01:55:23,047 --> 01:55:27,585
<i>if anyone else did you would
recognize aren't okay, aren't right.</i>

1812
01:55:27,586 --> 01:55:30,254
But because you know
you're a good guy,

1813
01:55:30,255 --> 01:55:31,215
it's different for you.

1814
01:55:33,125 --> 01:55:35,193
<i>I suppose you can't
accuse Julian</i>

1815
01:55:35,194 --> 01:55:38,062
<i>of not setting out from
the beginning what he may do.</i>

1816
01:55:38,063 --> 01:55:39,596
<i>Mendax by name,</i>

1817
01:55:39,597 --> 01:55:41,738
<i>Mendax by nature.</i>

1818
01:55:45,738 --> 01:55:48,372
<i>The same
extraordinary personality</i>

1819
01:55:48,373 --> 01:55:52,109
<i>which conceived of
and created WikiLeaks</i>

1820
01:55:52,110 --> 01:55:54,444
is also the same personality

1821
01:55:54,445 --> 01:55:57,514
that has effectively
destroyed WikiLeaks.

1822
01:55:57,515 --> 01:56:00,585
WikiLeaks has become
what it detests

1823
01:56:00,586 --> 01:56:04,493
and what it actually tried
to rid the world of.

1824
01:56:07,493 --> 01:56:12,229
<i>We must get away from this understanding
that we see Julian as a savior,</i>

1825
01:56:12,230 --> 01:56:15,465
<i>as some new guru,
some new hero,</i>

1826
01:56:15,466 --> 01:56:17,667
some new pop star or whatever,

1827
01:56:17,668 --> 01:56:19,105
that's going to
change all of it.

1828
01:56:21,105 --> 01:56:23,640
<i>The credit is undue.</i>

1829
01:56:23,641 --> 01:56:26,376
<i>Everybody celebrating Julian
as a whistle-blower.</i>

1830
01:56:26,377 --> 01:56:27,812
<i>He's not.</i>

1831
01:56:27,813 --> 01:56:30,480
Bradley Manning might
have been a whistle-blower,

1832
01:56:30,481 --> 01:56:34,117
and, if he was,
he is the courageous guy.

1833
01:56:34,118 --> 01:56:36,153
He is the one
that took all the risk

1834
01:56:36,154 --> 01:56:39,557
and in the end now has...
Is suffering.

1835
01:56:43,628 --> 01:56:45,332
Free Bradley Manning!

1836
01:56:48,332 --> 01:56:50,734
<i>After his arrest, Manning had
been held for two months</i>

1837
01:56:50,735 --> 01:56:54,705
<i>in an eight-by-eight
foot cage in Kuwait.</i>

1838
01:56:54,706 --> 01:56:58,209
<i>Then he was transferred to the Marine
Corps brig in Quantico, Virginia.</i>

1839
01:56:58,210 --> 01:57:00,778
<i>Though Manning had not been
tried for any crime,</i>

1840
01:57:00,779 --> 01:57:03,814
<i>he was kept in solitary
confinement for nearly a year.</i>

1841
01:57:03,815 --> 01:57:07,151
Shame! Sit yo' ass down!

1842
01:57:07,152 --> 01:57:10,621
<i>Bradley Manning, the alleged leaker
is currently sitting in prison</i>

1843
01:57:10,622 --> 01:57:13,291
<i>and he could be locked up
for the rest of his life.</i>

1844
01:57:13,292 --> 01:57:14,452
<i>How do you feel about that?</i>

1845
01:57:15,527 --> 01:57:19,197
<i>I think that it's
a little bit ludicrous</i>

1846
01:57:19,198 --> 01:57:22,166
<i>to say that Bradley Manning's
going to be tortured.</i>

1847
01:57:22,167 --> 01:57:25,570
<i>We don't do that
to our citizens.</i>

1848
01:57:27,238 --> 01:57:28,572
Free Bradley Manning!

1849
01:57:28,573 --> 01:57:30,375
<i>A high-ranking general</i>

1850
01:57:30,376 --> 01:57:34,511
<i>authorized Manning's placement in
solitary confinement on suicide watch</i>

1851
01:57:34,512 --> 01:57:37,380
<i>against the protest
of prison doctors.</i>

1852
01:57:37,381 --> 01:57:39,649
<i>His clothes and blankets
were taken from him.</i>

1853
01:57:39,650 --> 01:57:42,252
<i>Lights in his cell
were always on.</i>

1854
01:57:42,253 --> 01:57:45,322
<i>When he questioned his treatment,
guards took away his glasses</i>

1855
01:57:45,323 --> 01:57:48,826
<i>and forced him to stand naked
during morning roll call.</i>

1856
01:57:48,827 --> 01:57:52,130
<i>At night, guards kept him
cold and woke him frequently,</i>

1857
01:57:52,131 --> 01:57:56,600
<i>a practice that recalled the sleep
deprivation program at Guantanamo.</i>

1858
01:57:56,601 --> 01:57:58,402
<i>Manning's supporters speculated</i>

1859
01:57:58,403 --> 01:58:00,505
<i>that the U.S. government
was trying to push Manning</i>

1860
01:58:00,506 --> 01:58:03,810
<i>to turn on Assange
and implicate him in a crime.</i>

1861
01:58:04,810 --> 01:58:06,644
What was your reaction about

1862
01:58:06,645 --> 01:58:08,278
Bradley Manning's
treatment at Quantico?

1863
01:58:08,279 --> 01:58:11,616
It seemed to me that
sleep deprivation and nudity,

1864
01:58:11,617 --> 01:58:14,585
these were what I would call
"enhanced interrogation techniques."

1865
01:58:14,586 --> 01:58:17,554
- They were being practiced on an individual.
- No.

1866
01:58:17,555 --> 01:58:19,389
Look, I don't know
the specifics.

1867
01:58:19,390 --> 01:58:21,725
I don't know the rules
of confinement

1868
01:58:21,726 --> 01:58:23,760
for the Marine brig
at Quantico.

1869
01:58:23,761 --> 01:58:26,730
<i>But Bob Gates is an
incredibly honorable man.</i>

1870
01:58:26,731 --> 01:58:30,167
<i>Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mike
Mullen is an incredibly honorable man.</i>

1871
01:58:30,168 --> 01:58:31,868
I defer very much
to their judgment

1872
01:58:31,869 --> 01:58:34,274
that whatever was done
was appropriate.

1873
01:58:39,110 --> 01:58:42,647
<i>The treatment that he was
receiving at Quantico,</i>

1874
01:58:42,648 --> 01:58:45,183
<i>the level of solitary
confinement,</i>

1875
01:58:45,184 --> 01:58:47,885
<i>the fact that his clothes
were taken away at night,</i>

1876
01:58:47,886 --> 01:58:52,189
it was inconsistent with our
values and our interests.

1877
01:58:52,190 --> 01:58:55,425
It was making Bradley Manning
a far more sympathetic figure

1878
01:58:55,426 --> 01:58:56,693
than I see him.

1879
01:58:56,694 --> 01:59:00,466
When I was asked about it
in a forum at MIT,

1880
01:59:01,466 --> 01:59:03,401
I gave a candid answer.

1881
01:59:03,402 --> 01:59:05,803
<i>State Department
spokesman P.J. Crowley</i>

1882
01:59:05,804 --> 01:59:09,639
<i>said the treatment of Bradley
Manning by the Pentagon</i>

1883
01:59:09,640 --> 01:59:12,910
<i>is "ridiculous and
counterproductive and stupid,"</i>

1884
01:59:12,911 --> 01:59:14,679
<i>and I'm wondering
if you agree with that.</i>

1885
01:59:14,680 --> 01:59:15,779
<i>Uh...</i>

1886
01:59:15,780 --> 01:59:17,747
<i>I have actually
asked the Pentagon</i>

1887
01:59:17,748 --> 01:59:22,286
<i>whether or not the procedures
that have been taken</i>

1888
01:59:22,287 --> 01:59:26,590
<i>in terms of his confinement
are appropriate</i>

1889
01:59:26,591 --> 01:59:29,328
<i>and are meeting
our basic standards.</i>

1890
01:59:30,328 --> 01:59:32,496
<i>They assure me that they are.</i>

1891
01:59:32,497 --> 01:59:33,905
I was appalled at that.

1892
01:59:34,399 --> 01:59:38,368
I was appalled at that with respect
to the President's responsibility

1893
01:59:38,369 --> 01:59:39,804
as Commander-in-Chief.

1894
01:59:39,805 --> 01:59:41,339
Any commander...

1895
01:59:41,340 --> 01:59:43,974
Any commander knows
that first and foremost

1896
01:59:43,975 --> 01:59:46,844
he or she is responsible
for the well-being

1897
01:59:46,845 --> 01:59:49,813
of each and every one
of their soldiers,

1898
01:59:49,814 --> 01:59:52,349
to include the ones
sitting in the brig.

1899
01:59:52,350 --> 01:59:55,486
<i>I can't go into details
about some of their concerns,</i>

1900
01:59:55,487 --> 01:59:59,824
<i>but some of this has to do with
Private Manning's safety as well.</i>

1901
02:00:02,627 --> 02:00:06,429
<i>I think I gave you an answer
to the substantive issue.</i>

1902
02:00:06,430 --> 02:00:09,532
<i>Once my comments were brought to the
President of the United States,</i>

1903
02:00:09,533 --> 02:00:11,334
I felt the only thing
I should do is resign.

1904
02:00:12,003 --> 02:00:13,773
I stand by what I said.

1905
02:00:14,773 --> 02:00:16,407
<i>What was unsaid</i>

1906
02:00:16,408 --> 02:00:19,977
<i>was any consideration of holding
Manning's supervisors accountable</i>

1907
02:00:19,978 --> 02:00:22,699
<i>for permitting the greatest security
breach in American history.</i>

1908
02:00:36,461 --> 02:00:40,997
<i>Manning's commanding officer
only received a minor demotion.</i>

1909
02:00:40,998 --> 02:00:43,901
<i>The Army brought 22 charges
against Manning.</i>

1910
02:00:43,902 --> 02:00:45,422
<i>They included
"aiding the enemy,"</i>

1911
02:00:46,003 --> 02:00:48,973
<i>without naming just
who the enemy was.</i>

1912
02:00:48,974 --> 02:00:51,841
<i>For these charges,
Manning faced life in prison,</i>

1913
02:00:51,842 --> 02:00:53,916
<i>and a possible death sentence.</i>

1914
02:00:57,916 --> 02:00:59,237
<i>People who don't like the leak</i>

1915
02:01:00,018 --> 02:01:02,689
try to say that it was
damaging national security.

1916
02:01:03,689 --> 02:01:05,090
Have you ever seen any evidence

1917
02:01:05,091 --> 02:01:10,394
that American national security has
been damaged in any way by this?

1918
02:01:10,395 --> 02:01:14,098
<i>And if you look at what the whistle-blower
is saying in that online chat,</i>

1919
02:01:14,099 --> 02:01:16,367
and look at what
he doesn't say.

1920
02:01:16,368 --> 02:01:18,568
<i>He doesn't say,
"I want money."</i>

1921
02:01:18,569 --> 02:01:20,810
<i>He doesn't say, "I'm going
to go to Russia or China.</i>

1922
02:01:21,006 --> 02:01:23,073
<i>"I'm going to go to al-Qaeda
and give them this stuff."</i>

1923
02:01:23,074 --> 02:01:24,943
<i>It doesn't happen.</i>

1924
02:01:24,944 --> 02:01:29,779
<i>He says, "This is the material that the
people of the world need to have."</i>

1925
02:01:29,780 --> 02:01:32,450
And it was naïve to
dump the whole lot

1926
02:01:32,451 --> 02:01:34,919
without thinking ahead about how
that was going to be handled.

1927
02:01:34,920 --> 02:01:37,888
But you don't have to
lock this guy up for decades

1928
02:01:37,889 --> 02:01:40,090
and effectively put him
through forms of torture.

1929
02:01:40,091 --> 02:01:43,461
That's a politically motivated
act of vengeance

1930
02:01:43,462 --> 02:01:45,629
on somebody who hasn't
damaged national security,

1931
02:01:45,630 --> 02:01:47,497
he's caused embarrassment.

1932
02:01:47,498 --> 02:01:49,599
<i>Let's be clear.</i>

1933
02:01:49,600 --> 02:01:55,939
This disclosure is not just an attack
on America's foreign policy interests,

1934
02:01:55,940 --> 02:01:58,645
it is an attack on the
international community.

1935
02:02:01,645 --> 02:02:03,413
<i>The American government said,
"You can't publish this.</i>

1936
02:02:03,414 --> 02:02:07,917
<i>"It's dangerous. It's going to damage
world affairs, diplomacy, etc."</i>

1937
02:02:07,918 --> 02:02:09,719
But then you publish it anyway,

1938
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:11,788
and it's for the greater good,

1939
02:02:11,789 --> 02:02:13,659
<i>telling people
what they needed to know.</i>

1940
02:02:15,659 --> 02:02:20,831
<i>The question becomes, does
it matter and what changes?</i>

1941
02:02:20,832 --> 02:02:24,969
<i>I think really we have to say
that something has started,</i>

1942
02:02:24,970 --> 02:02:27,938
<i>and it's not going to be
about WikiLeaks.</i>

1943
02:02:27,939 --> 02:02:31,776
It's going to be about
transparency and accountability,

1944
02:02:31,777 --> 02:02:33,778
<i>and keeping power in check,</i>

1945
02:02:33,779 --> 02:02:36,514
<i>keeping governments
responsible,</i>

1946
02:02:36,515 --> 02:02:38,786
<i>and who cares who does it
as long as someone does.</i>

1947
02:02:40,786 --> 02:02:44,421
<i>Information by its very
nature needs to flow.</i>

1948
02:02:44,422 --> 02:02:48,826
In some regards, withholding information
is trying to repeal the laws of gravity.

1949
02:02:48,827 --> 02:02:50,827
You may succeed for
a short period of time,

1950
02:02:50,828 --> 02:02:54,130
but sooner or later
it's going to break free.

1951
02:02:54,131 --> 02:02:56,067
Now you're
talking just like a hacker.

1952
02:03:06,912 --> 02:03:08,550
Whoa! Okay.

1953
02:03:11,550 --> 02:03:15,885
<i>I care more about Bradley than
many of his supporters do.</i>

1954
02:03:15,886 --> 02:03:18,560
<i>We had a chance to be friends,
however briefly, and...</i>

1955
02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:26,897
He opened up in a lot of ways

1956
02:03:26,898 --> 02:03:29,001
about his life,
his personal life,

1957
02:03:30,001 --> 02:03:31,070
and

1958
02:03:33,070 --> 02:03:36,941
he did it in a way
that someone only would do

1959
02:03:36,942 --> 02:03:39,744
to someone they
felt they could trust.

1960
02:03:40,744 --> 02:03:44,215
And I had to betray that trust

1961
02:03:44,216 --> 02:03:46,954
for the sake of

1962
02:03:49,954 --> 02:03:52,592
all of the people
that he put in danger.

1963
02:03:54,592 --> 02:03:58,237
And I wish to hell
that it had never happened.

1964
02:04:17,983 --> 02:04:20,550
<i>It's going to be
a question for the ages,</i>

1965
02:04:20,551 --> 02:04:25,154
<i>why Bradley Manning reached out
to somebody he really didn't know</i>

1966
02:04:25,155 --> 02:04:29,631
and entrusted him with such
a life-altering secret.

1967
02:04:32,631 --> 02:04:36,767
<i>The only thing I can come up with is that
once he saw the results of the leak,</i>

1968
02:04:36,768 --> 02:04:40,571
<i>the need just to share that,
just probably grew and grew.</i>

1969
02:04:40,572 --> 02:04:41,639
He just needed to tell anybody,

1970
02:04:41,640 --> 02:04:44,875
and he thought Adrian was
the right person to tell.

1971
02:04:44,876 --> 02:04:48,077
Whistle-blowing is
a really isolating act.

1972
02:04:48,078 --> 02:04:52,181
It's a courageous
and phenomenal thing to do,

1973
02:04:52,182 --> 02:04:54,852
but you are essentially
doing something

1974
02:04:54,853 --> 02:04:58,721
that your colleagues
and your friends

1975
02:04:58,722 --> 02:05:01,692
would not want you to do
and not understand.

1976
02:05:01,693 --> 02:05:04,060
It alienates you
further from them.

1977
02:05:04,061 --> 02:05:07,598
A source who needs
to talk to someone

1978
02:05:07,599 --> 02:05:11,335
and explain what they've done and
think through what they've done

1979
02:05:11,336 --> 02:05:13,738
needs someone safe
to do that to.

1980
02:05:26,318 --> 02:05:29,185
<i>In the logs, Manning says, he
couldn't talk to WikiLeaks,</i>

1981
02:05:29,186 --> 02:05:30,920
<i>that's not how they work.</i>

1982
02:05:30,921 --> 02:05:33,724
Does that protect
whistle-blowers

1983
02:05:33,725 --> 02:05:35,327
or does it protect WikiLeaks?

1984
02:05:38,229 --> 02:05:40,331
<i>In the end,
everybody's just human.</i>

1985
02:05:40,332 --> 02:05:43,032
If you're leaking
material to someone,

1986
02:05:43,033 --> 02:05:46,603
if you're telling
a reporter a good story,

1987
02:05:46,604 --> 02:05:48,272
something that really
makes a difference,

1988
02:05:48,273 --> 02:05:52,675
then I think just from
a human perspective,

1989
02:05:52,676 --> 02:05:56,212
it's really difficult not
to get any credit for it.

1990
02:05:56,213 --> 02:05:58,849
Because no one can tap you on the
shoulder and say, "Good job.

1991
02:05:58,850 --> 02:06:00,819
"Courageous thing you did."

1992
02:06:04,021 --> 02:06:07,323
<i>And this is really the
complicated part about it.</i>

1993
02:06:07,324 --> 02:06:11,213
<i>How do you make sure that your source
doesn't compromise themselves?</i>

1994
02:06:29,213 --> 02:06:33,684
<i>In the chats, Manning sent
a link to "Pale Blue Dot,"</i>

1995
02:06:33,685 --> 02:06:35,352
<i>a famous photo of Earth he saw</i>

1996
02:06:35,353 --> 02:06:38,190
<i>while reading an essay
by the astronomer Carl Sagan.</i>

1997
02:06:40,190 --> 02:06:44,361
<i>"That's home," said Sagan.
"That's us.</i>

1998
02:06:44,362 --> 02:06:48,098
<i>"Every saint and sinner in the
history of our species lived there,</i>

1999
02:06:48,099 --> 02:06:49,767
<i>"on a mote of dust,</i>

2000
02:06:49,768 --> 02:06:52,435
<i>"suspended on a sunbeam.</i>

2001
02:06:52,436 --> 02:06:55,906
<i>"In our obscurity,
in all this vastness,</i>

2002
02:06:55,907 --> 02:06:58,809
<i>"there is no hint that help
will come from elsewhere</i>

2003
02:06:58,810 --> 02:07:01,778
<i>"to save us from ourselves.</i>

2004
02:07:01,779 --> 02:07:03,418
<i>"It is up to us."</i>

2005
02:07:05,200 --> 02:08:00,500